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-   -   Fighting my Speeding Ticket (http://www.the370z.com/lounge-off-topic/103968-fighting-my-speeding-ticket.html)

jmayz 05-22-2015 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schellingr (Post 3206437)
Agreed! These fuc|<ers are a pain the a$$. My wife was doing 52 on a 45 (NON construction) and this pig pulled my wife over and gave her a $600 ticket. Talking about money generation for these bastards....
In their defense, they need funds to pay for lawyers every time they break their own laws and kick a minorities a$$!

Bshields22 05-22-2015 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FPenvy (Post 3206434)
I will agree with you. but with speed limits I do not. I follow them somewhat locally but highway nah. in PA the best we got is 60/65mph. i'm sorry that's not acceptable on a major highway.

speed limits haven't changed in about 30 years or so and cars/roads have.

only place that's advancing with the times is Texas and that 85mph highway or whatever they opened.

why is it that the USA is still thinking it's 1950 when places like Germany have the unrestricted autobahn? well maybe it's due to most us cars are typically garbage compared to their german rivals lol
Well said! I need to find the source i heard this from but i heard that there are far less traffic accidents on the autobahn then on the freeways here. Only caveat to that those is there is a slightly higher percentage of fatal accidents that do happen. In summary though, autobahn is safer than our freeways.

I feel that most of us on a daily basis go about 10-15 over the speed-limit for all speed limits. Only in ideal situations do we go 90-100 on the freeway or open highway in the middle of the desert, alone on the road. I think tickets should begin at at least 15-20 over. Anything should be able to be justified.

FPenvy 05-22-2015 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bshields22 (Post 3206448)
Well said! I need to find the source i heard this from but i heard that there are far less traffic accidents on the autobahn then on the freeways here. Only caveat to that those is there is a slightly higher percentage of fatal accidents that do happen. In summary though, autobahn is safer than our freeways.

I feel that most of us on a daily basis go about 10-15 over the speed-limit for all speed limits. Only in ideal situations do we go 90-100 on the freeway or open highway in the middle of the desert, alone on the road. I think tickets should begin at at least 15-20 over. Anything should be able to be justified.
honestly I feel the reason the limits have not been raised here is due to the cops not writing anyone until they are 10+ over. on the highway typically I see people only getting popped at 15+ over.

so if that would continue after a limit raise then yes I could see where raiding to 85 and people doing 95+ is an issue for most drivers.

honestly most drivers are not very skilled lol

but with ideal traffic conditions going a bit over I see no issue with if one is capable of doing so and ok with risking a ticket.

just did a 1600 mile round trip and 1/2 of the way down at very late hours I was the only car on my side of the road. warm dry conditions I went about 95 avg. no issues.

Bshields22 05-22-2015 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bshields22 (Post 3206448)
Well said! I need to find the source i heard this from but i heard that there are far less traffic accidents on the autobahn then on the freeways here. Only caveat to that those is there is a slightly higher percentage of fatal accidents that do happen. In summary though, autobahn is safer than our freeways.

I feel that most of us on a daily basis go about 10-15 over the speed-limit for all speed limits. Only in ideal situations do we go 90-100 on the freeway or open highway in the middle of the desert, alone on the road. I think tickets should begin at at least 15-20 over. Anything should be able to be justified.
Furthermore lol...

If Texas is able to up their speedlimit there obviously is documentation PROVING a faster speed is not unsafe.

Chuck33079 05-22-2015 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bshields22 (Post 3206448)
Well said! I need to find the source i heard this from but i heard that there are far less traffic accidents on the autobahn then on the freeways here. Only caveat to that those is there is a slightly higher percentage of fatal accidents that do happen. In summary though, autobahn is safer than our freeways.
That's because of the lower overall traffic and much more stringent driver education and licensing. Here it would be a disaster.

FPenvy 05-22-2015 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3206457)
That's because of the lower overall traffic and much more stringent driver education and licensing. Here it would be a disaster.
I remember on an old episode of top gear them showing the driver ed in finland? where the kids have to go through a lengthy course with on track skid pad in many situations testing. all prior to getting their license.

we have nothing at all lol

Bshields22 05-22-2015 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FPenvy (Post 3206454)
honestly I feel the reason the limits have not been raised here is due to the cops not writing anyone until they are 10+ over. on the highway typically I see people only getting popped at 15+ over.

so if that would continue after a limit raise then yes I could see where raiding to 85 and people doing 95+ is an issue for most drivers.

honestly most drivers are not very skilled lol

but with ideal traffic conditions going a bit over I see no issue with if one is capable of doing so and ok with risking a ticket.

just did a 1600 mile round trip and 1/2 of the way down at very late hours I was the only car on my side of the road. warm dry conditions I went about 95 avg. no issues.
Exactly, 95 is quick but its not fast and dangerous. Now, 95 weaving in and out of traffic might be a different story...i know non of us have EVER done that before.....:stirthepot:

To your point earlier, with current advancement in automotive technology there is so much more a car is capable of in terms of accident avoidance and safety. Speed limit laws are not governing grandpas old Cadillac.

Also in terms of "laws" talking on a cell phone is illegal (just like speeding) but why isn't eating in the car anddoing makeup in the car illegal. Its arguably more dangerous....:tiphat:

Bshields22 05-22-2015 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3206457)
That's because of the lower overall traffic and much more stringent driver education and licensing. Here it would be a disaster.
LOLOL! oh man, i could only imagine....

Chuck33079 05-22-2015 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bshields22 (Post 3206465)
Exactly, 95 is quick but its not fast and dangerous.
Maybe not for you. Keep in mind, the speed limit is designed for the lowest common denominator. You'll still have commercial vehicles and old people doing 55. Now you've got a 40 mph speed differential with drivers with reduced reaction times.

Just because you've got a sports car that handles 95 mph like it's nothing doesn't mean everyone does. Do you want some twunt in a SUV texting and driving along at 95 mph?

Bshields22 05-22-2015 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3206468)
Maybe not for you. Keep in mind, the speed limit is designed for the lowest common denominator. You'll still have commercial vehicles and old people doing 55. Now you've got a 40 mph speed differential with drivers with reduced reaction times.

Just because you've got a sports car that handles 95 mph like it's nothing doesn't mean everyone does. Do you want some twunt in a SUV texting and driving along at 95 mph?
That is true!

It's a very easy argument for a stagnant speed-limit because the safety benefits will always out weight the conveniences and "my car can handle it" people. Basic human nature will always push push push. freeway speed limit changes to 85 lets say...now people are "only going 15 over still" but now its 100 when they used to only go "15 over" at 85.

I think what will begin tipping the speedlimit to go faster will be technology advancements not public opinion. When the oldest car on the road has the advancements of current MB's/Lexus/Infinity. Might be a ways away for a somewhat large high speed adoption.

Chuck33079 05-22-2015 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bshields22 (Post 3206473)
That is true!

It's a very easy argument for a stagnant speed-limit because the safety benefits will always out weight the conveniences and "my car can handle it" people. Basic human nature will always push push push. freeway speed limit changes to 85 lets say...now people are "only going 15 over still" but now its 100 when they used to only go "15 over" at 85.

I think what will begin tipping the speedlimit to go faster will be technology advancements not public opinion. When the oldest car on the road has the advancements of current MB's/Lexus/Infinity. Might be a ways away for a somewhat large high speed adoption.
Then we need to mandate safety inspections. Some jackass rolling around on bald tires or with shot brakes ruins this whole plan.

Bshields22 05-22-2015 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3206474)
Then we need to mandate safety inspections. Some jackass rolling around on bald tires or with shot brakes ruins this whole plan.
Yep...

Cheers to better and better radar detectors and defense attorneys!!

Chuck33079 05-22-2015 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bshields22 (Post 3206479)
Yep...

Cheers to better and better radar detectors and defense attorneys!!
Yeah, speeding tickets are really the lesser evil compared to higher speed limits. That's a slippery slope with a LOT of unintended consequences. I'll just roll the dice and if I crap out I fight it and win or lose and pay the ticket.

dP3NGU1N 05-22-2015 03:57 PM
I'll just leave this here....

Never Speed In Virginia: Lessons From My Three Days In Jail

dP3NGU1N 05-22-2015 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3206474)
Then we need to mandate safety inspections. Some jackass rolling around on bald tires or with shot brakes ruins this whole plan.
Most Europeans find it abhorrent that Americans can get away with not having their cars inspected once a year. It's federally mandated in the UK. So everyone on the road, if they are registered, has had all their fluids flushed within the year, tire pressures checked, et al.

darkphantom 05-22-2015 04:01 PM
Mandatory driver's license tests are more like it! There are WAY too many people on the roads who have no idea how to properly signal or drive!

The Germans have a mandatory test every year, especially if you want to drive on the autobahn

Chuck33079 05-22-2015 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N (Post 3206483)
Most Europeans find it abhorrent that Americans can get away with not having their cars inspected once a year. It's federally mandated in the UK. So everyone on the road, if they are registered, has had all their fluids flushed within the year, tire pressures checked, et al.
All we care about here is if the emissions are in line. As long as the trees are safe, screw the other drivers. :rofl2:

Bshields22 05-22-2015 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N (Post 3206482)
Long read but very entertaining. Next time I'm in VA, I'll rent a Prius

dP3NGU1N 05-22-2015 04:11 PM
The problem is America is too free with it's individual's rights. There is no courtesy, there is no reserved passing lane, people barely ever signal; these offences are all reserved for the biggest ******** in Europe while they're common place within the US. We don't have a culture of allowing a faster lane - it's always me, me, me, and MY rights. I'm allowed to be in the left most lane because I exist, even though I'm only going 45 on a 55mph motorway. If you tried that in Italy they'll run you out of the country (as my girlfriend found out). Other countries simply treat driving differently. We treat it as a right, everyone else treats it as a privilege (there are exceptions, I'm generalizing here). Everyone's comments about raising the speed limit seems far fetched because the average American simply cannot be trusted with the responsibility of higher speed. And it's not necessarily anyone's fault. It's just how our road going society evolved - we essentially invented the modern day automobile. We treated it as manifest destiny.

And this isn't just with driving. Everytime I'm in a different country there are always areas for passing. Everyone stands to one side on escalators so people in a hurry can run by. Embarrassingly, if not for the language spoken I can often mistake Americans for people from mainland China. Whenever I land back in states, I know it, because all sense of courtesy disappears. Our airports are ******* zoos. International traveler should be able to back me up on this because I don't think my experiences are isolated. If you compare LAX to Hethrow, Hong Kong, Incheon, or Munich they're all quiet and orderly and courteous in comparison to our gorillas at the TSA.

Please don't mistake my comments and observations for hating the US. I live here and I call this country my home. But there's a lot we can learn from other countries if only we'd try. But we won't because that's not what Americans do.

Ok, I apologize. /rant

jmayz 05-22-2015 04:21 PM
Some times you have to speed. Like when the piece of junk Ford Taurus pulls up next to you on the highway revving his whiny little engine. It's my American right to show him what 6th to 4th gear looks like from the sidelines!

dP3NGU1N 05-22-2015 04:27 PM
SPEAK OF THE DEVIL!

Why Doesn’t The U.S. Have An Annual Car Safety Inspection?

Bshields22 05-22-2015 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N (Post 3206497)
The problem is America is too free with it's individual's rights. There is no courtesy, there is no reserved passing lane, people barely ever signal; these offences are all reserved for the biggest ******** in Europe while they're common place within the US. We don't have a culture of allowing a faster lane - it's always me, me, me, and MY rights. I'm allowed to be in the left most lane because I exist, even though I'm only going 45 on a 55mph motorway. If you tried that in Italy they'll run you out of the country (as my girlfriend found out). Other countries simply treat driving differently. We treat it as a right, everyone else treats it as a privilege (there are exceptions, I'm generalizing here). Everyone's comments about raising the speed limit seems far fetched because the average American simply cannot be trusted with the responsibility of higher speed. And it's not necessarily anyone's fault. It's just how our road going society evolved - we essentially invented the modern day automobile. We treated it as manifest destiny.

And this isn't just with driving. Everytime I'm in a different country there are always areas for passing. Everyone stands to one side on escalators so people in a hurry can run by. Embarrassingly, if not for the language spoken I can often mistake Americans for people from mainland China. Whenever I land back in states, I know it, because all sense of courtesy disappears. Our airports are ******* zoos. International traveler should be able to back me up on this because I don't think my experiences are isolated. If you compare LAX to Hethrow, Hong Kong, Incheon, or Munich they're all quiet and orderly and courteous in comparison to our gorillas at the TSA.

Please don't mistake my comments and observations for hating the US. I live here and I call this country my home. But there's a lot we can learn from other countries if only we'd try. But we won't because that's not what Americans do.

Ok, I apologize. /rant
Well said my friend, well said. I don't do too much international travel. Maybe this is one of the many reasons the world hates us lol.

Bshields22 05-22-2015 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bshields22 (Post 3206511)
Well said my friend, well said. I don't do too much international travel. Maybe this is one of the many reasons the world hates us lol.
Love America, just saying I can understand it in this regard

oldschool350z 05-22-2015 04:38 PM
Pay your fine and move on. You were speeding obviously and rather than please guilty it will be reduced.

dP3NGU1N 05-22-2015 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschool350z (Post 3206518)
Pay your fine and move on. You were speeding obviously and rather than please guilty it will be reduced.


Technically if he was written up for CVC22350 (as he has stated) then he has broken no law:

Basic Speed Law

22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

See how 22350 technically does not say anything about a speed limit? You can go above the speed limit as much as you want, as long as you are driving safely given the weather conditions and visibility.

kuruzero 05-22-2015 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N (Post 3206521)
See how 22350 technically does not say anything about a speed limit? You can go above the speed limit as much as you want, as long as you are driving safely given the weather conditions and visibility.
Just my 2 cents...

Actually "technically" he has broken the law because the determination of what is reasonable or prudent isn't decided by him... No offense but I'm in court almost every week and that defense will get the typical eye roll thats nice, here's your fine from the judge.

The traffic ticket lawyers charge so little bc the business model is client volume and by getting fines slightly decreased or getting traffic school/defensive driving classes set up (which anyone can easily do themselves by simply calling and talking to a clerk). The most being done for first offenses and good driving records. Tickets are very rarely outright dismissed and rarely do officers not show up to court as most jurisdiction issue automatic HR write ups for not showing to court. Traffic ticket firms are just as much a racket as speed traps.

Personally, as half the drivers I go past are on their phones nowadays, Im fine with the 60-75 mph on most hwys I drive as I dont trust society as a whole to be responsible enough to have a 80mph limit, which in practicality means everyone would really be going 80-90mph without consequence. The autobahn mortality rates vs US hwys debate has very little to do with speed. Replace their situation with our factors and their rates would quickly increase. Actually the large majority of autobahn deaths do happen on the stretches without limits vs the stretches with limits so this doesnt exactly bolster most arguments.

OP, I agree fight the ticket if you'd like but dont expect to come out clean and without spending money regardless. Not likely with your record a judge is just going to scrub the ticket, thats its you get to go home without paying out. And for someone with double digit speeding tickets, you either still havent learned the smart way to speed like the rest of us hah, you're under 25, or those tickets are spread out thru decades of driving. Im assuming its not the latter... You gotta pay to play...

dP3NGU1N 05-22-2015 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuruzero (Post 3206674)
Just my 2 cents...

Actually "technically" he has broken the law because the determination of what is reasonable or prudent isn't decided by him... No offense but I'm in court almost every week and that defense will get the typical eye roll thats nice, here's your fine from the judge.

The traffic ticket lawyers charge so little bc the business model is client volume and by getting fines slightly decreased or getting traffic school/defensive driving classes set up (which anyone can easily do themselves by simply calling and talking to a clerk). The most being done for first offenses and good driving records. Tickets are very rarely outright dismissed and rarely do officers not show up to court as most jurisdiction issue automatic HR write ups for not showing to court. Traffic ticket firms are just as much a racket as speed traps.

Personally, as half the drivers I go past are on their phones nowadays, Im fine with the 60-75 mph on most hwys I drive as I dont trust society as a whole to be responsible enough to have a 80mph limit, which in practicality means everyone would really be going 80-90mph without consequence. The autobahn mortality rates vs US hwys debate has very little to do with speed. Replace their situation with our factors and their rates would quickly increase. Actually the large majority of autobahn deaths do happen on the stretches without limits vs the stretches with limits so this doesnt exactly bolster most arguments.

OP, I agree fight the ticket if you'd like but dont expect to come out clean and without spending money regardless. Not likely with your record a judge is just going to scrub the ticket, thats its you get to go home without paying out. And for someone with double digit speeding tickets, you either still havent learned the smart way to speed like the rest of us hah, you're under 25, or those tickets are spread out thru decades of driving. Im assuming its not the latter... You gotta pay to play...
Actually, burden of proof for all of the above is on the officer to prove to the judge that the driver is in violation of any of the terms (weather, excessive speed, if so - how?, How was this determined to be dangerous, etc.) So no, you don't get an eye roll. I speak from experience from actually using the law to mount my defense against this very vehicle code. I've personally beaten these tickets before so your theoretical "eye roll" doesn't carry much weight here.

How to mount your defense here (I have personally used this):
( Click to show/hide )

How far back was I when your radar first picked me up?
How far ahead of me was the closest car in front of me?
Was I in danger of hitting the closest car in front of me?
Was I in danger of hitting any other car?
As I recall, there were no pedestrians; is that correct?
(Alternatively: As I recall, there were no pedestrians in the roadway; is that correct?)
Did it look at any time like my car was out of control and about to leave the road
?
What was the weather?
Was there anything inherently unsafe about the weather at the speed I was going?
What was the visibility?
Was there anything inherently unsafe about the visibility at the speed I was going?
What was the surface of the road?
Was there anything inherently unsafe about the surface of the road at the speed I was going?
What was the width of the road?
Was there anything inherently unsafe about the width of the road at the speed I was going?
You cited me with violation of Vehicle Code Section 22350, correct?
Could you please read 22350 for the court?
22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.
That section says nothing about a posted limit does it, Officer?
Could you please read this part of Section 22351(b) for the court?
22351.(b) The speed of any vehicle upon a highway in excess of the prima facie speed limits in Section 22352 or established as authorized in this code is prima facie unlawful...
That sounds like I am guilty, but could you please read the rest of it -- the underlined part?
22351.(b) The speed of any vehicle upon a highway in excess of the prima facie speed limits in Section 22352 or established as authorized in this code is prima facie unlawful unless the defendant establishes by competent evidence that the speed in excess of said limits did not constitute a violation of the basic speed law at the time, place and under the conditions then existing.
Does your testimony qualify as competent evidence?
Did you not testify that that there was nothing inherently unsafe about the weather at the speed I was going?
Did you not testify that that there was nothing inherently unsafe about the visibility at the speed I was going?
Did you not testify that that there was nothing inherently unsafe about the surface of the road at the speed I was going?
Did you not testify that that there was nothing inherently unsafe about the width of the road at the speed I was going?
Did you not testify that I was not in danger of hitting another car?
(I guess that takes care of the traffic condition.)
Did you not testify that I was not in danger of hitting a pedestrian?
Did you not testify that was in control of my vehicle and not in danger of leaving the road?
So what property could I possibly have endangered?
I ask you once again, does your testimony qualify as competent evidence?
Given your competent testimony as evidence of my speed as it relates to the conditions at the time and place of this alleged violation (not the average conditions covered in the survey, but the exact conditions you testified to – i.e., the conditions specified in 22351(b)), where is your case, Officer?
If you make it through question 14 without the officer bringing up anything negative, you have pretty much won your case. Once you get past question 20 the officer may try to change his or her testimony, in which case you challenge the officer's memory of the case and his or her competency as a witness for the prosecution.

This defense courtesy of Help! I Got a Ticket!. Been using that site for years. It's all free and it works.
Original site: http://helpigotaticket.com/speed/30questions.html

kuruzero 05-22-2015 07:18 PM
Burden of proof on the officer sounds nice in theory but im talking the practical world. In practicality you have to disprove the officer, not the other way around... And no offense but your experience with a couple tickets (which i dont for a sec believe you got out of by giving that idealistic "but technically" speech to a judge) mounts a small sample size to my in court weekly in different jurisdictions for yrs experience... If the ticket is legit, there's ways to minimize the damage and get it taken off your record, but very very rarely will it be outright dismissed. Thats just the facts regardless of jurisdiction.

kuruzero 05-22-2015 07:22 PM
Not trying to be a **** dP3NGU1N just giving the OP my take coming from countless experience with not only this specifically but knowledge of crim and civ pro.

dP3NGU1N 05-22-2015 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuruzero (Post 3206697)
Burden of proof on the officer sounds nice in theory but im talking the practical world. In practicality you have to disprove the officer, not the other way around... And no offense but your experience with a couple tickets (which i dont for a sec believe you got out of by giving that idealistic "but technically" speech to a judge) mounts a small sample size to my in court weekly in different jurisdictions for yrs experience... If the ticket is legit, there's ways to minimize the damage and get it taken off your record, but very very rarely will it be outright dismissed. Thats just the facts regardless of jurisdiction.
I help out a facebook page specifically for students who get tickets for this BS because cops like to sit at the bottom of a hill to hand them out like chocolate (my school is near the top of the hill and the posted speed limit is 25 all the way up, which is nonsense)

Here are a few images from people who have beat their tickets with the defense I recommended to them. I've informed each of them before hand that I'm not a lawyer and am not certified to give legal advice and that any advice I do give them is only my opinion and they bear the responsibility of their actions.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...1a&oe=55C95FF1


This student only posted her refund check
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...2d&oe=560562E0

The problem is always that people are constantly told that they cannot beat a ticket and they shouldn't even try. This is why cities are able to take advantage of us by giving bogus tickets. You're part of the problem if you say "just pay it".

Any other clever come backs?

kuruzero 05-22-2015 10:26 PM
No offense but I can absolutely tell you're a kid. Only a kid's mentality would would consider it "bogus" to get a speeding ticket when they are in fact driving faster than the posted speed limit... Only a kid's mentality would think it should be up to them and every other individual on the road to determine how fast he/she should legally be able to drive on a public street...

And no, 2 pics w/o any trial details doesnt change my view or my advise bc for every 2 there's a thousand instances of it not working and I think we all know that or everyone would be getting out of their tickets right?

And never once did I say I had any issues with contesting tickets. But as an adult and a man Im not going to get upset or call it bogus to get a ticket for going beyond the posted limit when I knowingly and purposely did exactly that. Will i try to get out of it if i can? Sure, thats part of the game. But hey if I dont, the accountability falls on me not the "bogus" ticket writer...

If you have problems with the speed limits and really want to help other students there are more effective avenues to attempt bringing about change in laws, city ordinances, etc. But thinking or promoting the "Lets just ignore the sign bc we dont agree with it" is very likely to financially hurt more people than it helps...

Alas dP3NGU1N, good luck with it all though. Being a college kid myself before I know that even someone with a thousand times more experience on this topic and crim/civ pro isnt going to change how you see it hah.

OP, good luck also. Learn to speed w/o getting so many tickets man lol. Or invest in a great detector hah.

dP3NGU1N 05-22-2015 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuruzero (Post 3206800)
No offense but I can absolutely tell you're a kid. Only a kid's mentality would would consider it "bogus" to get a speeding ticket when they are in fact driving faster than the posted speed limit... Only a kid's mentality would think it should be up to them and every other individual on the road to determine how fast he/she should legally be able to drive on a public street...

It's a real talent, your ability to completely miss the point of what I've been advocating for. Did you bother to try to understand or did was it so far beyond your comprehension that you said "ahhh screw it I'm just gonna go full trolltard here." I'll start by pointing out that just because I go out of my way to help college student, doesn't mean I'm still a college student. But I guess if you consider anyone under 35 a child then I guess that's fair. Far be it for me to change your definition of age groups, you're more than entitled to your wrong opinion.

That said, let me do my best to reiterate the point for the slower among us:
1. The posted speed limit is a sham
2. Traffic surveys OFTEN (not always) recommend speeds that are higher relative to the posted speed limits for any given street.
3. Traffic surveys are IGNORED by municipalities because they want to pull more people over because the city gets more money that way
4. I want people to fight their tickets because it de-incentivises the city from using tickets as a money grab - more people fight, more judges need to make a ruling, some people get their money back, judges need to get paid, net result is less money for the city, preferably, it's a net negative for the city.

It's bogus because it's a money grab, not simply because it's the law. I bet you're one of those people that judges a movie before he sees it.

And no, 2 pics w/o any trial details doesnt change my view or my advise bc for every 2 there's a thousand instances of it not working and I think we all know that or everyone would be getting out of their tickets right?

Yeah, that's possible. But from my experience, no one so far who's tried to fight their ticket has lost. The one time I "lost" was due to a clerical error where they lost my paper work. I reopened the case and contested it and won. Is your only experience in the courts clerical work? By the way, there's a huge difference between criminal law and traffic law. Furthermore things are handled far differently between municipal courts and federal courts. You seem to have so much to say about the experience you have that simply doesn't apply to traffic law.

And never once did I say I had any issues with contesting tickets. But as an adult and a man Im not going to get upset or call it bogus to get a ticket for going beyond the posted limit when I knowingly and purposely did exactly that. Will i try to get out of it if i can? Sure, thats part of the game. But hey if I dont, the accountability falls on me not the "bogus" ticket writer...

And never once did I say you had any issues with contesting tickets. But since we're on the topic, for someone who doesn't have issues contesting tickets, you sure seem to be fighting pretty hard for him not to contest his ticket. Just saying.

If you have problems with the speed limits and really want to help other students there are more effective avenues to attempt bringing about change in laws, city ordinances, etc. But thinking or promoting the "Lets just ignore the sign bc we dont agree with it" is very likely to financially hurt more people than it helps...

Never told anyone to ignore the sign. There you go making up words you think you read, again.

Alas dP3NGU1N, good luck with it all though. Being a college kid myself before I know that even someone with a thousand times more experience on this topic and crim/civ pro isnt going to change how you see it hah.

Once again, just helping college students.

OP, good luck also. Learn to speed w/o getting so many tickets man lol. Or invest in a great detector hah.

Oh my, who's advocating for ignoring the sign now?
:tiphat:

By the way, saying that you don't mean to be a d!ck doesn't make you not a d!ck. You're definitely still a d!ck. Same goes for "no offense". Seriously? What kind of person half apologizes before everything they say?

Leroydsouza 05-23-2015 01:21 AM
You guys are just funny to me.
Are you the same person who sued Mcdonalds on Hot coffee being too hot ?

I have had fines from speeding to pretty much things i cant discuss here.
I have never fought it. I fail to see why i should fight it.
Our highway suggests we can drive at 120 KMPH, I intentionally speed between cameras because i can and its fun. Sometimes i get clocked in by exceeding 10 KMPH ( Probably because i slammed the brakes) Or by a lot more.
You know the speed limit, You speed, Thn u fight it.

I have a very heavy foot too, I hate speed limits, i am almost always speeding.
But saying that you dont accept the posted speed limit is the most immature thing i have ever heard.
I thought i was immature, I thought my retard friends were immature but you have taken the cake on this ****.


Oh and your college Students ******** lol.
'I am a college student. I speed because i can. But i will fight the ticket i got while speeding because Merica"

I am sorry, I dont understand this rubbish. To all i have offended , I dont care. I find this topic very stupid.

MR.nismo 05-23-2015 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N (Post 3206497)
The problem is America is too free with it's individual's rights. There is no courtesy, there is no reserved passing lane, people barely ever signal; these offences are all reserved for the biggest ******** in Europe while they're common place within the US. We don't have a culture of allowing a faster lane - it's always me, me, me, and MY rights. I'm allowed to be in the left most lane because I exist, even though I'm only going 45 on a 55mph motorway. If you tried that in Italy they'll run you out of the country (as my girlfriend found out). Other countries simply treat driving differently. We treat it as a right, everyone else treats it as a privilege (there are exceptions, I'm generalizing here). Everyone's comments about raising the speed limit seems far fetched because the average American simply cannot be trusted with the responsibility of higher speed. And it's not necessarily anyone's fault. It's just how our road going society evolved - we essentially invented the modern day automobile. We treated it as manifest destiny.

And this isn't just with driving. Everytime I'm in a different country there are always areas for passing. Everyone stands to one side on escalators so people in a hurry can run by. Embarrassingly, if not for the language spoken I can often mistake Americans for people from mainland China. Whenever I land back in states, I know it, because all sense of courtesy disappears. Our airports are ******* zoos. International traveler should be able to back me up on this because I don't think my experiences are isolated. If you compare LAX to Hethrow, Hong Kong, Incheon, or Munich they're all quiet and orderly and courteous in comparison to our gorillas at the TSA.

Please don't mistake my comments and observations for hating the US. I live here and I call this country my home. But there's a lot we can learn from other countries if only we'd try. But we won't because that's not what Americans do.

Ok, I apologize. /rant
No need to apologize and that was not a rant. You said it correctly and too bad if many are "butt hurt". When I was living in Germany, the (too many) American's that acted too "Americanish" were always treated by the locals like ****. I never had any issues (with Europeans) while I lived in Europe. On the autobahn I was able to do 160 plus mph and I only passed others while I was in the left lane. If a faster car was approaching me from behind and he/she was faster than me I had (yes, I had to by law) to get out of their way. The left lane was reserved for passing only regardless if speed limits or not. In the three years I lived in Europe, I was never passed on the right. Driving as fast as you can is only allowed on some areas, the rest of the autobahn has speed limits and the suggested limit is 80 mph's.
Whenever I went to a restaurant or any other place I tried my best to communicate in their language. Once they noticed I was not European but I was trying my best, they would do their best to make me feel welcomed and would even try to communicate in my own language as well. On the other hand, the few instances I would see other American's "acting" as a if they deserved everything, they would end up being treated as a second or even third class citizen.
Driving in many parts of Europe is a privilege and so is here as well but many of us don't know the difference between a right and a privilege. The Bill or Rights and the following amendments does not mention anything about driving, so that means it is not a right but a privilege.

JARblue 05-23-2015 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leroydsouza (Post 3206860)
But saying that you dont accept the posted speed limit is the most immature thing i have ever heard.
I thought i was immature, I thought my retard friends were immature but you have taken the cake on this ****.

I am sorry, I dont understand this rubbish. To all i have offended , I dont care. I find this topic very stupid.
Another one who just doesn't get it :shakes head:

This is about legitimate traffic studies that show what the speed limit for a given road should be and the municipalities that often ignore them, deliberately making the speed limit lower, which provides an opportunity to increase income from issuing speeding tickets.

These traffic studies are designed to set the speed limit at the SAFEST possible speed for a given road. When municipalities ignore the safety of the general public for the almighty dollar, I have a big fuckin problem with that. And people that don't have a problem with it are the fuckin problem as well.

So you can think the argument is rubbish or not understand it - I personally don't care. But to call those making the argument immature is downright ignorant when you obviously haven't bothered to understand the issue. I've never fought a traffic ticket where the speed limit was set appropriately.

Davey 05-23-2015 09:19 AM
I understand the concept of 5 and 6-lane highways with 55 mph speed limits all too well, but I find it very difficult, if not impossible, to believe that setting the speed limit *lower* than the speed limit determined by a traffic study would make the road less safe.

Isn't the purpose of such a study to determine the maximum safe speed?

How does decreasing the speed limit decrease safety?

Honest question, but feel free to call me a "trolltard" or whatever if it helps you get your point across. :icon17:

dP3NGU1N 05-23-2015 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davey (Post 3207103)
I understand the concept of 5 and 6-lane highways with 55 mph speed limits all too well, but I find it very difficult, if not impossible, to believe that setting the speed limit *lower* than the speed limit determined by a traffic study would make the road less safe.

Isn't the purpose of such a study to determine the maximum safe speed?

How does decreasing the speed limit decrease safety?

Honest question, but feel free to call me a "trolltard" or whatever if it helps you get your point across. :icon17:
Hey now. I've met every serious question here with respect and have done my best to answer the questions to the best of my knowledge. Clowns like leroy (seriously man, less drugs...) and kuru, who continues to basically suggest that tickets are unwinnable and judges will ignore your pleas if you argue the law just because it's you against a cop, are the issue. And even with kuru, up until the point he snapped I basically addressed all his concerns, even going so far as to pull out recently beaten tickets, from people I know, to show him that it is indeed possible.

Ok anyway, that doesn't answer your question. The problem is a variety of factors that create an unsafe situation:
  1. There will always be those who strictly follow the speed limit; grandmas and Priuses basically.
  2. Studies have shown that almost all drivers will drive at the speed that they feel COMFORTABLE in. Speed limit increases and decreases have little to NO effect on the overall flow of traffic.
  3. Comfort level here is not really a conscious decision. For example, people will not be taking corners at break neck speeds because most people don't like the feeling of g forces on their body - not comfortable. Please don't misconstrue this portion as everyone driving like a maniac, assume a reasonable human being (oxymoron, I know.)
  4. Now, here's the important bit. When you mix people who strictly follow the speed limit and people who are driving considerably faster because they feel it is safe, you start getting more car accidents. Several factors cause this
    • Unpredictable driving behaviour from the person following the speed limit such as braking unnecessarily in order to continue to comply to traffic laws.
    • Comfortable driver getting frustrated by lawful driver and trying to get around them to resume comfortable speed
    • increased overall frustration with the world? Ok I made that one up

That's just a general list of things, don't take that as the ONLY factor but here's a source just so you know I'm not making this stuff up:

Effects of Raising and Lowering Speed Limits

That is an official study done by the DOT (department of transportation) by the way. They know the effects of a speed limit.

Also, artificially lowering the speed limit is a more recent phenomena. The other issue is that our traffic speed has been around for ages and simply haven't been updated for modern road cars. Some since the 1950s. Do you know how slow cars were in the 1950s? I traffic survey from then would likely recommend the speed we have now because that's really all cars could do.

JARblue 05-23-2015 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davey (Post 3207103)
I understand the concept of 5 and 6-lane highways with 55 mph speed limits all too well, but I find it very difficult, if not impossible, to believe that setting the speed limit *lower* than the speed limit determined by a traffic study would make the road less safe.
That was the fight 40 years ago when they managed to get rid of the nationally set 55 mph highway speed.

Traffic engineers understand this stuff. Virtually no one else does. I have a very minor understanding of some of the principles because my father practiced traffic engineering for many years when I was a child. They still don't make a whole lot of sense to me lol

But I know what you mean. Lowering the speed limit 5-10 mph below what the study finds to be the safest speed is not significantly altering the overall safety of the roadway. The problem I have is letting them get away with it at all. It's the principle. Municipalities shouldn't be taking advantage of their power to increase revenue at the expense of the public they are supposedly serving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davey (Post 3207103)
Isn't the purpose of such a study to determine the maximum safe speed?
It's not about a maximum speed. The studies are designed to determine the safest speed for the traffic and conditions on that particular road. As has been mentioned, people are generally going to drive the speed they are comfortable driving given the conditions. Regardless of the posted speed limit. So the study is really about finding that sweet spot where the range of speed across the grandmas, normal drivers, and speed demons is the narrowest. That's what the speed limit should be set at. Some jackoff at the city council who thinks it's too fast should not be able to change it; nor should the police dept or other AHJ be able to influence a municipality to change it.



And for my final point ... you're a trolltard! :mad:


:rofl2:

Leroydsouza 05-23-2015 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N (Post 3207167)
Clowns like leroy (seriously man, less drugs...) and kuru, who continues to basically suggest that tickets are unwinnable and judges will ignore your pleas if you argue the law just because it's you against a cop, are the issue.
OK ill explain things to you, you clearly havent thought of. You probably are high, If you read what i wrote You would clearly understand i am not talking about you fighting that ticket because you are so much of a miser.
Firstly unwinnable ? Who said that ? I dont need to win or lose fines, No thank you. I accept my speeding and all fines when i am in the wrong.

Ill paint you a scenario, Try to keep up.
You were speeding, You get caught, You fight it and you get away with it.
Another person sees you as an example and carries this on. Now everyone is doing it because you can fight it. Merica.
Speed limit here is considerably higher than America. However i feel that this speed limit is not justified and it should be higher.
We are humans, We are just not satisfied. I dont really have any dog in this fight because we dont exactly fight fines. Spend time running around for a few measly bucks because you feel that the fine is not justified according to you and your studies.

You really want to change those speed limits ? Instead of acting like a child and being a rebel about it, How about you gather a few people who think like you and like a civil human approach this as a mass issue.
No you wont, You would rather get a speeding ticket, waste your time running around and be glad you won a pathetic little case . You think your few hundred dollars is going to hurt the government ? You are nothing but a rebel. I admit to being a rebel, I am probably even addicted to breaking rules, But i dont sit and whine about it saying its unfair for me to be accused for this because i read it in a study somewhere.

Americans claim 'Freedom' everywhere they go.. How is it that you have not managed to change the speed limits ? Probably because instead of doing something about it, You sit and fight those shitty tickets and consider it a victory that you got away without paying for it

I dont have anything against you, Or well americans, But that concept of taking everything to court even though you know full well that you were doing 60 in a 55 road is just pathetic.
Probably same concept used by people who commit serious crimes and they walk.

Grow up and accept your mistakes
Or if you really want to enforce change, Do it like an adult, Not by getting a ticket and running to fight it.

I am done with you, Because I know the kind of person you are, You are basically just a rebel like me, Fortunately for me, I just dont whine at **** i have done.

Cheers

dP3NGU1N 05-23-2015 12:58 PM
Ok, so some actual complete sentences from you. Now we can have a dialogue. Unfortunately you've vomited so much nonsense that I'm going to have to respond to you like I did with the other one. Let's get started....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leroydsouza (Post 3207218)
OK ill explain things to you, you clearly havent thought of. You probably are high, If you read what i wrote You would clearly understand i am not talking about you fighting that ticket because you are so much of a miser.
Firstly unwinnable ? Who said that ? I dont need to win or lose fines, No thank you. I accept my speeding and all fines when i am in the wrong.

Wasn't even describing you with that statement. Read it again. I was referring to kuru, who DID say that. Infact, his whole argument lay in the idea that judges won't take your case seriously. As far as accepting your fines, that's all well and good for some rich son of an oil shaw who doesn't even make his own money. Oh wait, am I generalizing here? But I guess if we're going to make stupid generalizations about everyone, turnabout is fair play.

Ill paint you a scenario, Try to keep up.
You were speeding, You get caught, You fight it and you get away with it.
Go on...
Another person sees you as an example and carries this on. Now everyone is doing it because you can fight it. Merica.
Ok....
Speed limit here is considerably higher than America. However i feel that this speed limit is not justified and it should be higher.
Still onboard....
We are humans, We are just not satisfied.
I guess I can agree with this...
I dont really have any dog in this fight because we dont exactly fight fines.
Ok, what are you trying to say here?
Spend time running around for a few measly bucks because you feel that the fine is not justified according to you and your studies.
*Insert seal clubbing rich father joke here*

You really want to change those speed limits ? Instead of acting like a child and being a rebel about it, How about you gather a few people who think like you and like a civil human approach this as a mass issue.
No you wont, You would rather get a speeding ticket, waste your time running around and be glad you won a pathetic little case . You think your few hundred dollars is going to hurt the government ? You are nothing but a rebel. I admit to being a rebel, I am probably even addicted to breaking rules, But i dont sit and whine about it saying its unfair for me to be accused for this because i read it in a study somewhere.
Soo.... your problem with me is that you perceive me as whiny. I guess so? I mean if you consider anyone who tries to make a point with arguments and facts as a whiner I suppose you're right. It's not like my claims are as baseless as yours so I don't see how you can get away with whining online and yet have the gall to to accuse someone else of the exact same thing. If only your brains were as big as your bollocks you might see the irony of this situation.

As far as calling me a rebel is concerned... I don't know if that is supposed to be a compliment or an insult. Sometimes you use it in the context of an insult ("you're nothing but a rebel") and then you back pedal and say you're a rebel as well. And then your main complaint is that I'm a whiner. Listen, buddy, get your argument straight. At this point it sounds like YOU don't even know what you're angry about. And that just makes me laugh.

Americans claim 'Freedom' everywhere they go.. How is it that you have not managed to change the speed limits ? Probably because instead of doing something about it, You sit and fight those shitty tickets and consider it a victory that you got away without paying for it

So here we get into the very difficult notion of international politics. I'm assuming you're from the UAE. Now if we go off everything the american media tells me about the UAE, it's 99% **** hole with a 1% rich population of oil magnates, corrupt politicians, and overall basic b!tches who are crying about the lowered cost of crude. I don't know what they say about Americans over there but I'm sure none of its good, so let me enlighten you - the politicians here are about as corrupt as over there but in a slightly different way. Let's not get into specifics; the bottom line is that it's very hard to change policy because precedent is a huge factor in law making in the US. It's not as simple as getting "like minded" individuals to petition - their voices will never be heard. What the government will hear is the sound of money flowing from their pockets.

Now you think that a few people fighting and winning their tickets doesn't make a difference. What about hundreds? What about thousands? Each of those tickets costs money to write, and money to prosecute. If we have thousands in each city fighting their tickets, or just going to court, the system will lock up, the city will lose money. And THAT will actually facilitate change. I'm not saying it's a perfect plan, but it's better than standing outside city hall with a cardboard sign - THAT would be sitting and whining.

I dont have anything against you, Or well americans, But that concept of taking everything to court even though you know full well that you were doing 60 in a 55 road is just pathetic.
There are a lot of people sueing each other in the US, I'll grant you that. However, traffic court is a bit different from that. This isn't suing anyone - this is arguing your case to a judge of a wrongful accusation. If you read anything that I posted before these little verbal skirmishes broke out, you would know what I'm talking about. In case you're too lazy to have your servant hit the back button, here it is in short:

CVC22350 has nothing to do with the speed limit.

Probably same concept used by people who commit serious crimes and they walk.
You mean like gang rape little girls? I hear that's rather common in the UAE... oh wait, generalizing again. We call your argument a slippery slope argument. It doesn't hold any water, but it makes people afraid. They used that for ages to argue against gay marriage. The argument went like this:

If we allow two men to get married what's next? Can a man marry his goat or dog or pig?

Your argument makes just about as much sense (which is to say, ZERO).

Grow up and accept your mistakes
Or if you really want to enforce change, Do it like an adult, Not by getting a ticket and running to fight it.
One, going to court and arguing a case, that's what adults do. Bending over and sucking **** by paying the fine outright - just ask a priest what a boy does.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that I go out of my way to get tickets. In no way is that the case. I don't try to get tickets. I haven't gotten a ticket in almost a 6 years now (not since college, which is why I'm helping the college students fight tickets). Because a couple hundred dollars to a college student is a big deal. Higher education isn't paid for by the government like it is in many other countries. $300 is the difference between eating and starving here. Students already go into crushing debt to get an education they don't know will pan out. So shove your self righteous rich prick attitude of "just a few hundred dollars" up your arse. I'm sure if it will fit your head, it'll fit that too.

I am done with you, Because I know the kind of person you are, You are basically just a rebel like me, Fortunately for me, I just dont whine at **** i have done.
You have no idea what kind of person I am. Just like I don't know who you are. Don't pretend like you do. Makes you sound whiny. =P

Cheers
Cheers!
I'm not going to fault this clown for his english because it's obviously a second language. And anyone who's learned a second language knows that it's a pain in the *** to make a proper argument in said language. So "a" for "affort".

BY THE WAY: Mods, please don't close this thread! I'm having so much fun here. =) Serious statement.


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