Intake/exhaust/reflash question
 

I'm looking at picking up either a takeda or stillen intake, berk hfc, fast intentions catback and a cobb ap once they're mapped. My boss thinks even after those mods his e92 m3 would blow the z's doors off. I really have yet to see any 1/4 mile times or comments on pulling power after putting a full intake and exhaust (minus headers) with ecu reflash on the car. From what I've read on these forums about 50 hp at the crank seems to be a fair estimate. If thats true then thats 380 hp in a car weighing around 3250 pounds vs. the m3's 414 hp and 3700 pounds. What do you all think?

I think your horsepower estimate is high, your weight estimate is low. He'll probably whomp you..

+1 - there is a reason why the E92 is a FR car and costs double the 370z.... bmw emblems don't cost that much

I think if you pickup the power mods that actually give power, not the ones that just look pretty AND you get a reflash it should be pretty close. I've been in several M3's and they are quick, but not THAT quick. I'm sure I would be pretty close to one in a straight line, probably faster than one on the track...

If you're just trying to make your vehicle better than some other vehicle in some specific stat, there's always someone with a better X than you. For example, you could put together a $45K package (car and mods) that makes a wonderful track car with great lap times, and still get blown away in the 1/4 mile (or on the street, not that I approve) by some POS $3K job someone did with a beat up 80's mustang and a huge stroker V8 in it. Sure his car sucks to drive, is uncomfortable, and can't corner or brake for crap, but he's still going to beat you in a straight line for a fraction of the cost.

So build a vehicle to make yourself happy, that's going to be a good all-around performer on a track, and go track it, and ignore the E92 guy :)

I've seen dynos from a stock m3 and a modded 370z and they're scarily close in the power curves relative to how flat the torque is from 3k to 7k rpm and peak hp around 8k rpm. They couldn't feel or sound any more different but thats where the truck like sounding engine in the Z is trumped by the effortless feel and tech of the m3's v8 which then justifies the m's hefty price tag along with it's insane handling in such a heavy car. The guy owns the m3 also has a z4m and a maserati coupe so I just think it'd be funny to trump them all with a couple thousand in mods with a n/a car vs. an evo or sti.

Ask for a raise ;-)

I'd probably like to get one of those Euro-spec 400HP Evos... then again, that's like GT-R realm.

I would just tell your boss that you really don't give a rat's azz whether his car is faster or not. Enjoy the car for what it is...not based on matching up infantile egos by way of something that is totally baseless and meaningless.

Edmunds inside line tested the 2008 M3 coupe at 12.9 second quarter mile, 111.1 mph trap speed. If you can get your 370z to run that, it will be the fastest car on this forum.

:owned:

To respond to Phimosis, Edmunds is pretty horrible at running cars, I'd stick with motortrend at 12.7 to be fair to the m3 with a similar trap speed around 111. Motortrend has the Z at 13.3 at 107. Semtex and RCZ are well over 300 whp and you have all their mods plus a reflash so I'd say if 12's aren't a possibility with that kind of power I'm missing something. To respond to RCZ, I'm quite happy with the car as it is but if you can make the car that much faster and retain its driveability, comfort and reliability then it's a win win especially at a fraction of the cost of the original purchase. Didn't buy the car to indulge my ego nor would I mod it for the same reason, just want the best car for the money.

I think it was MT that got an auto 370 to run a 13.2 @ 108mph if memory serves so you are not far off stock if this can be repeated.

I remember seeing a PDK Carrera with only 385 hp absolutely destroy the v8 M3.

M3 V8 vs Carrera PDK [M3 is modded lol Porsche is bone stock]

Now the 370z has nothing like that PDK and is not rear engined with no driveshaft to add to parasitic power loss to the wheels and I know its not apples to apples comparing the 370z auto to the PDK but you wont need to be near the M3's power output to run with it as the Z is a good bit lighter and with those mods and tune you shoud be putting around 325-330rwhp. You would be very close to the M3 stock whp with a weight advantage. So it seems on paper you should have a chance at the very least to run with one. Lots of mag/bench racing we are doing though. Thats why you run em though cause paper numbers dont mean squat sometimes. Case in point the GTR lol.

BTW Ive seen tests of the M3 trapping as much as 113mph.

It'd be interesting to see it. I'll have him drive my Z when I do the breather mods and reflash and see what he thinks.

Typical M3 douche. God someone shoot me if I ever drive the executive c*ck swinger mobile (aka M3).

Just take him in your Mazdaspeed 3. :tup: Needless to say, he may beat you in a quarter mile but he certainly won't be "blowing" anybodys doors off.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but 108 trap seemed way too fast for a Z, so I googled MT and 370z and I see 13.3 @ 105.7.


On a retest comparo against the Mustang and Genesis coupe, it ran 13.3 @ 107.1.

I know this is quibbling in the details, but no 370z has ran a 12 second quarter mile and when they starting getting close to hitting the 12's, people will be quibbling over thenths of a second.

I love my Z, but they are just not that fast....At least until someone gets a forced induction kit to market.

Apparently some 370z's have hit 12s already at some track in ohio. And APPARENTLY someone on here hit a 12.9 bone stock but on drag radials from a 350Z.

But no proof though. :yum:

Sorry man got my mags confused here is the link. Its was C&D. Also the auto did 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and did the 1/4 in 13.1 @ 108mph. That is the fastest time recorded yet for the 370z. Im betting that at a prepped track an Auto 370z will be close to hitting 12's @ maybe 109-110mph but Im probably being too optimistic. Teh mags dont test 1/4 at prepped tracks thus my argument for the 370Z doing better numbers at a dedicated 1/4 facility. This is all speculation however but with the C&D results it looks like a 12 sec bonestock 370z is at the very least a probability. Thus also my entire arguement as to why a full bolt on 370z may just give that V8 M3 a run.

2009 Nissan 370Z Automatic - Short Take Road Test - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver

A bone stock 370 straight off the showroom floor, of either transmission type, isn't going to hit 12's even in ideal circumstances. I find the C/D numbers questionable honestly. My runs were 13.4xx in the 7AT, and that was with bolt-on power mods (Gen 3 intake, headers, HFCs, CBE) at a DA of ~1500, on a really good track (Houston Raceway Park). Granted, I had some extra junk in the car (large bag of tools, etc) and didn't mess with my tire pressures, but still ...

Soo you got two tests. One with manual and the other with auto and both are low 13's at over 107 mph, on a typical unprepped non 1/4 track surface, and you still dont think this car has a probable 12.9 in it on a prepped track? All it has to do is knock out a good 60' time. 108-110 mph can be enough to hit a 12.9 if you kill the 60'. It may take one hell of a launch but its at least "possible" imho. But until its done cant really disregard what you have said either. I guess time will ultimately tell.

BTW you have Sport/Touring and auto. Maybe that little extra weight cost you a few 10ths? Maybe?:) Car in this test I believe only had the sport package I believe and I have no idea what the da was where they ran.

I'm not sure how they're getting those numbers, but they're not gonna happen on a completely showroom-stock 370Z on a real track. Perhaps they're using some method of estimation for their results that doesn't jive with a real track's timing methods.

You may be right Ive heard one of them uses some form of correction factor. Not sure on the particulars of that other than it sounds liek they make up numbers based on variables instead of cold hard test numbers.

1/4 mile times depend alot on the climate, grip from the tires, reaction times and optimal rpm launch. I would say with the mods I listed earlier that from a roll it would give alot of cars on the road a run for their money. Very few cars weigh under 3400 pounds let alone under 3300 and push 400 hp. I'm not a drag king but it would seem obvious that itd be scary fast from a roll gunning it around 6000 rpm on the highway, hitting close to max hp at the 8k rpm rev limit and being able to use the cars max torque to catapult you through the next gear. Assuming the hp/tq curves from the dynos I've seen are correct and obeying speeds limits of course.

Reaction times deciding 1/4 time aye? :shakes head:

Yeah RT doesn't matter for your 1/4 time, it only matters for beating the guy in the other lane.

Send her over to GTM and we'll see who's doors will be blown off lol

I'm pretty sure reaction times make a difference when you're quibbling over 1/10ths of a second in a 1/4 mile. A 2.1 vs 1.9 r/t could mean the difference between breaking the 12 sec. barrier and not. My point is that 1/4 mile times are too dependent on outside factors and nuanced skill. Case in point many 1/4 mile times in the track thread on this site in the upper 13's and even 14+. I can't say on this site that I'll be able to prove a modded 370's pulling power compared to an m3 but I can tell you it'd certainly be close.

I took my 370 Z to the track for the Ontario Z Drag day at St. Thomas Dragway ( Canada) 2 weeks ago. My average pass was 13.42 @ 107.9. Its a 7 AT.
My car had 286 RWHP with a Stillen G3 intake. Base line was 266. Elevation was 785 ft.
If you look at the article were the car ran 13.1?. They rolled the car for the first foot.
The more runs i made the higher the times went. Having nitrogen filled tires I watched the tire presure go to 40 lbs. I did not let the nitrogen out as i have no way to replace it.
When i let the car cool for 1 hour it ran a 13.201 @ 103. ( i hit the limiter in 4th.) My fault!!. If i ran the tires at 26 psig it would have gone 12's easy. ) My slicks from my 2003 Z do not fit.
60 ft times!!!! 2.09 to 2.19 and higher. There is no way to get traction of the line.
My 0 to 60 mile times based on the 1/8 mile and trap times. 4.41 seconds with a 2.09. 60 ft time.
I have another modifation to the car. It has 4.08 gear in the diff. (i changed differenatal)
My next upgrades will be the stillen CBE, berk cats, headers, and a tune from Cob.
Sam at GTM will be making me a custom tune for my car when i send him the data.
I also removed the spare tire, tools and anything else that i could to lighten the car.
I tried to fit my RO Ja formula 5's on the car with 275 toyo's and i have to change the valve stem to clear the calipers. once this is done I can lower the air preasure in the rear tires and we will see what the car will do. I can cut189 to 1.90. 60 ft times with these tire.s With slicks my best time is 1.86.
Lets get back to the 13.1? run done by the magazine. Did they start there run 1 foot back of the startng line and tripped the lights from a moving start ?
That would make a big difference!!!
I would love to post my time slips but i do not know how to do ?
My time for the 370 is the quickist one to date.
Mt times are certified by the Ontario Z club of Canada.
The next drag day is in Septmber it will run 12's.
But its not a stock car from the dealer show room.
My current Z is a 2003 stillen 5 At that runs 13.09s
It is currently being updated to a GTM 4.2, stroker with 850 wolf TTBB with a SFR 5 AT.
tuned with a haltec. Sam at GTM is helping me with this project and he is agreat guy. Sam has my dyno charts for the 370 ( i emailed them to him). he did not belive that I got19.9 RWHP from the intake. He will be more that glad to back me up.
I feel that the 13.1? is not a true indication of what this car run's 13.4 to 13.5 is more like it. My oil temp was 104 C (217 F) the car needs an oil cooler.

:rock: ^^ Yeah, what he said! :icon18:

you wont come close to a m3. even modded .those things pull like the dickens after 110...on the track a modded Z mybe can take him...prob not..but mybe

You all need to have a little more faith in yer car! Besides, it's not a drag car. When I hear "track", I'm thinking something entirely different and frankly much more exciting.

Reaction time isn't part of your quarter mile time. You can wait for the light to go green, sit there for 5 seconds, and then take off, and still make the same 1/4-mile time you would normally. Reaction time is gauged separately, and the actual 1/4 starts when your front tire clears the second staging beam.

I think a modded (but still NA) 370Z can definitely get into the 12's, that's not the question. It's just a question of how much modding :). I've kinda been on hold for a couple months on new dyno runs and new 1/4-mile runs because I'm waiting to sort out my exhaust issue for good (hopefully in early August now). I think at that point with a little prep (remove junk from car and drop rear pressure, etc) I can get lower than my initial 13.4's, but probably not quite into the 12s. The upcoming tire and wheel change I'm making might push me into the 12s though, with the added grip and lighter rolling weight in the wheels, and lower gearing from shorter wheels.

But a stock 370Z, even with the most professional of drag racers behind the wheel, will not hit the 12s, period.

^^What was you 60' time when you got your 13.4?

Good question :) I never scanned the slips, and now I don't even see them in the car, I must have taken them inside somewhere, hmmm...

on the full stillen bolt on and tune with drags on the back. we have hit a 12.6 114


GO FOR IT!!

What were your 60ft times on that 12.6 @ 114? Great runs by the way, and your trap speeds are impressive!:tup: You're running with the LS2 C6 Corvettes, how much power are you putting to the wheels? And what kind of drags do you have on your car? Sorry for all the questions, damn your Z is fast!

Well he's doing a lot better than similarly-equipped 370Z's (HP-wise), so I'd have to say the drag tires are the primary difference.

You should come out to the track with us Wstar I think I have TheDreamer convinced to come out

http://www.the370z.com/texas/8620-dr...ng-anyone.html

Sounds fun, I'll plan to be there.

Take your car and run them on a good 1/4mi track stock for stock and see what happens. The M3 is fully capable of demolishing a 370z when both are stock...but that's not to say your boss is fully capable of taking the M3 to that level ;)

I've seen Vettes run 14's fairly regularly...and it's not the car that's the problem in those cases. Heck back in '02 I had a friend with an Integra Type R that was turbocharged and put down 340hp to the wheels. He couldn't get out of the 14's on street tires, so he thought it was a traction issue. He bought drag radials and only managed some 13.7's and one lone 13.4. I asked to drive it and clicked off a 12.7 on street tires and 12.4 on drag radials (and I'm not the best driver in the world). We got our shop driver to drive it once on street tires and he clicked off a 12.4....on street tires (we never got to see what he could do on drag radials).

Long story short...you never know. Run em and see what happens.

The thing you have to remember is drag racing is not all about HP. The M3 has a 9000 RPM V8. Totally different machine then a 7500 RPM V6. He will have more power for a longer duration in every gear. His gear ratios are different, he has SMG (Sequential Manual Gearbox) there for will be able to shift in .08 seconds. Much faster than any human.

I hate to admit it, but the M3 is a technological marvel compared to the 370Z. Tons of F1 technology in it. Your comparing an $75,000 car to a $30,000 car (base prices). For a fair race, you'd be looking at a GT-R vs M3. The prices are much more comparable... And the GT-R clearly wins that race :)

The M3 is a technological marvel but revs to 8300 not 9k rpm. He has a stick not a smg which is the way it should be. With a reflash the Z has an 8100 rpm limit so not that far off. Again I've seen dyno readouts of stock e92 m3s and full bolton Zs and they're very similar in how the power comes on. Both lack a little power low down but have a broad torque curve up until 6500-7k rpm (the advantage to the m3) but most impressive of all they have both have an impressive hp curve up until their fuel cutoffs. On the stock Z max hp comes on around 7k vs. the modded Z making power all the way to redline. Once I have a few thousand to screw around with I think I might surprise some people. I dont' think the Z's engine is nearly as good as the bmw's stock for stock but modded Z vs. stock m3, dyno sheets dont lie. I would not place the m3 anywhere near the gt-r though, it took gm to have to supercharge one of its v8's to outdo the gt-r while the base corvette beats the m3 hands down. With a reflash and exhaust on the gt-r I've seen 600 hp on youtube videos.