Let me explain again.

The dyno sheet from SZ shows two plots. Blue is the SZ tuned map and red is Church tuned map. If the the dyno sheet from Church shows gains, the same gains should show in the SZ dyno sheet. Both dyno sheets are comparing the same two tuned maps, which were completed in the same day within hours of each other.

Maybe i misunderstood what you wrote;

1) You had it tuned at Chruch, showed gains over the pulls on the same dyno moments earlier with the SZ tune on it.

2) You went to SZ, ran it on their dyno, showed ~same numbers.

3) You re-loaded the SZ tune whilst still on the SZ dyno and pulled it again.

4) There was no apparent difference between the two tunes on the SZ dyno.



If all of the above is correct, what i'm suggesting, is that because the car already has the spark advance from the Church tune, then reloading the SZ tune (which didn't touch the advance) would not load any advance change because it doesn't contain spark advance in the SZ tune.

That is what i believe the tune at Chruch was to show (gains possible with Shockwave & advance)

So i'm saying that it looks like the reason you showed no change between the tunes when going back to the SZ tune, is because it still has the spark advance set from the Church tune.

Make sense?

Ok I think I know where you are confused.

1. At Church, the church tuned map showed gains over the baseline (specialty tuned map).

2. Drove to SZ, ran the car on dyno with Church tuned map. (red curve)

3. Then reflashed the ecu and ran the SZ tuned map. (blue)

4. Correct.

Do you see how we're comparing the same maps? Only difference is the dyno machine. Do you see why gains seen at Church, should also be seen when I was at SZ?

Yes, that's how i understand what you did.

The point i'm making, is that the SZ map doesn't contain the "change" to the spark advance. Therefore, having had the Church tune on the car (which does contain the spark advance) and *then* putting the SZ map back on (which doesn't contain the spark advance details) The end result would then be that the spark advance would remain the Church setting even though the rest of the map would be on the SZ settings.

That's why i suspect you wouldn't see a change when going back that way (Chruch to SZ)

Ok I see why you are misunderstanding. You do know the timing settings do not jump from map to map right? The timing settings are exclusive to each map.

At Church, the timing settings with the Church map showed gains over the timing settings with SZ map.

AT SZ, the timing setting with the Church map did not show gains over the timing settings with the SZ map.

Do you see why I am confused why gains are seen at Church, while not at SZ?

:iagree: You would have thought the runs would have been similar in terms of power that was made at Church's.

Can Tony clear things up ???

I don't know yet. Jason will be sending me the dyno run files so they may shed some light.

What are you saying? I dont think you understand how the Uprev tuning system works....

This is why i posed it as a question, i'm not 100% sure how the uprev tune works, but in some tunes, only the altered values are loaded with a tune.

For example, and in this case, the suggestion i'm making, is that the SZ tune doesn't contain the spark advance change value, therefore, loading the SZ tune over the Church tune, results in the spark advance not changing.

This was the way my SCT tune on the Mustang worked, i'm questioning whether the uprev works the same way.

The way you said it doesnt sound like a question to me. It was a statement.

I dont want to jump to conclusions prematurely, but i want to applaud the OP for taking matters into his own hands. Instead of accepting the dyno showing gains from Church, he took the car to another shop to verify the gain at his own expense. I think the least we can get out of this story is that you cant always trust the hp gains on a dyno graph. I'm sure there are things that a tuner can do to make it seem like your car gained hp after tuning.

Product reviews are often swayed by partial sponsorship and/or discounts given on their purchase. Dont see many reviews based on true performance numbers like this one.

:icon18: c'mon man, are you seriously suggesting the tuner doctored the gains?

Not saying that it happened in this situation, but it's definitely possible when people come back from tuners with 20-40 whp gains.

Even the manufacturer said the gains from wouldn't be significant from one CBE to another