General consensus on boltons to gain the most HP.
 

I will be doing all my boltons at once, and i was wondering which ones out there that will give me the most HP without going FI.

So far it seems that the Fast intentions exhaust with test pipes (which TPs do you guys recommend?), and the Stillen G3 intakes is the way to go for the most HP. Would I be correct in my assumption? Thanks in advance guys.

all that and a retune is what I have been seeing as the popular route.

I figured with all the parts and tweaking I would be a quarter of the way to an SC so I am just going to hold out for the SC in April

Yes A tune is a must if you wanna get the max HP out of your bolts on,

I recommend Motrdyne ART Test pipes, they give the most HP over any other Test pipes available for our cars.

I wouldnt mind going that route, but my Z is my DD, and I dont want to have reliability issues. I also dont know where the heck I can get an ECU tune in my area, so Im thinking FI is definitely out of the question.

Anybody know what whp gains to expect fro Stillen G23 intake, high flow cats/TP, and exhaust? I'm assuming they are not additive even with a tune. Maybe 35-40 whp?

20-30 maybe

Best bang for the buck:

1. TP's or HFC's (ebay test pipes will work fine) ($125 and up)

2. K&N panel filters with HPS (or similar) smooth intake tubes. ($95 + ~$110 = ~$205)

Those two mods (as low as a little over $325) should net you approximately a 6 to 7% increase in power, which on a 275 whp (give or take) vehicle puts you in the 291 - 294 ball park (on a Dynojet).

Based on all of the dyno evidence I have seen, pod filter intake kits are NOT worth it. They are 2-3x the price of the highflow panel filters plus smoother intake tubes and, at best, may net you a few more whp.

That is a great set up. I would recommend an UpRev, and tune just to squeeze out the last remaining hidden horses

I ran Berk HFC's, so I can't comment on TP's.

Yep. Thats the route I'm going. However, they're sold out right now and I'm checking frequently.

that setup is good if your not worried about maximizing hp/$. I ran it, worked great.

Bottom line: there Is no consensus on what's the best bolt-ons for HP gains.

Actually, to the OP:

I would make a point to get a baseline dyno before doing any bolt on's and them go back, rather than just getting an "after" dyno.

Otherwise, you may be setting yourself up for disppointment no matter what the result is...

So for example,

Stillen G3 Intake +17
Stillen Exhaust +18
Stillen High Flow Cats +16

Total +51 whp

Now I'm guessing all three together don't give +51 whp with a tune. What's reasonable to expect? If the gains aren't strongly additive I don't see the value in doing all three.

About 30-35hp with a tune. JMO.


Might as well add pulley set and motor dyne manifold to maximize hp b4 getting a tune.

depends on your car. I only gained 5 hp from exhaust, longtube headers, pulley, and tune.

It really depends.. everyones cars will respond differently to certain mods.... I made +22whp with Test pipes and Exhaust...

If you want to get the most and dont ever plan on FI, this is what I would do

Stillen G3 intakes
Fast Intentions Long Tube Headers
Either FI Exhaust or HKS Exhaust
A Grounding kit
Underdrive pullies
Uprev Tune

That will give you the most without building the motor or going FI.



DAN

I guess I'm struggling with why do anything besides the single cheapest mod to gain NA power. The G3 Intake gives 17 whp.

Exhaust def gives better sound but for a few extra HP doesn't seem worth it?

Maybe FI is the way to go to get a decent bump in HP

What exhaust do you have, Top Speed?
I gain about +17whp from the TP cbe.

If the cbe doesn't net that much hp. How much would I be leaving on the table if I just went with Stillen gen 3 CAI and test pipes? After those mods would it be breathing enough to warrent a CBE.

If you want the most out of your tune you will need exhaust to help the car further with "breathing" mods, easier exhaust paths/flows is better. And for people saying you dont get power out of exhaust systems is a load of BS, My Berk test pipes and HKS exhaust gained +22whp over stock.



DAN

:shakes head:

I don't think you will get anywhere near to 17whp with any intake.
where are you getting those numbers from? you will also lose torque with the intakes. I'd rather have more torque tham HP but thats just me.

Its been proven that the first mod you do to the Z nets you about 15-20HP, after that you are only going to gain 5-10 maybe less with all the other mods. Also what I see is missing from this thread is the importance of a tune if you have fill bolt-on's. The Z tends to run a little lean with CAI, CBE,TP, so you might want to look into a tune as a saftey precaution as well. From what I have seen on this forum most guys are putting down 275-285WHP bone stock. After full bolt-on's and a tune it looks like there making about 330-340WHP so thats a gain of about 55+ HP

Which I would be OK with, assuming ~$3K investment. Keeps NA reliability, resale, and avoids headaches of FI which done right will push ~$10K.

No. Everyone's car will respond similarly because everyone has the same motor.

The problem is you have to make comparisons using the same type of dyno (or dyno settings if not a dynojet), same correction factor, and have a clear baseline for comparison. Across dynos, the percentage gain should be similar for a given mod.

The data from dynojets is pretty clear and the gains I've seen from various mods on different members' cars are predictiable.

The major variable seems to be that the first breather mod often seems to gain more power than when the same mod is the second or third bolt on (e.g., intakes seem to result in larger net gains when done first, but not second or third).

I'm not exactly sure why that is, but for simplicity, let's just assume it's due in part to limited room for improvement and dimnishing returns as you get closer to optimized VE for the motor (VVEL tuning might open up more possiblities there...)

The only possible exception might be removal of the factory cats, which does seem to be a consistent bottle neck that always nets decent gains; although again, probably higher if done first.

Put your car on a dynojet, use SAE correction, and I can pretty much guarantee you that if your motor is sound, bone stock you will put down about 273 whp +/-5 (I'd say 288 - 290 +/-5 for a Nismo).

I can give you guys more accurate estimates as I get more data -- please send me those drf's if you got 'em :D

Who is making 330-340 whp N/A? Not on a dynojet. Link? :confused:

Actually I've hardly seen anyone break 300 on a dynojet (especially SAE corrected -- STD tends to overcorrect towards higher values) who isn't in a modded Nismo. I think you may be mistaken...

And yet, I've seen no independnet dynos that report equivalent gains... Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Also, see my comment about the first breather mod's effect.

EDIT: Also, STD correction almost always skews high (appropriate for FI, but tends to overestiamte for NA).

I am looking at $/hp ratio. I don't have to squeeze every hp out of it. CAI and TP for 600-750 and net 20hp isn't bad. Another 5hp for $1000-1500 is tough for me to justify.

^^^Trust me on this.

I would say 1.5 - 3.0% more power at various points in the rev range. You might be able to get similar gains with just a Y pipe.

No, not at that time. I had FI Catback and FI longtube headers.

My previous Dyno was 295WHP with just stillen intakes and muffler section delete. Then when I went to dyno after installing all the other stuff I did 300WHP. (although my mid-range torque was a lot better) Intakes must have been big, because everyone seems to consistently be around 300 with full bolt-on's on Uprev's shop dynojet (where all my dynos are done).

Back on topic, I think the first thing you do, regardless of what it is will have a substantial impact. I agree with Jordo, you can get 95% of the gains of the expensive stuff and pay 50% or less if you do it right.

Jordo, you say that the HPS tubes are $110, is that for a set or each? Thanks!

Who is making 330-340 whp N/A? Not on a dynojet. Link? :confused:

Actually I've hardly seen anyone break 300 on a dynojet (especially SAE corrected -- STD tends to overcorrect towards higher values) who isn't in a modded Nismo. I think you may be mistaken...


And yet, I've seen no independnet dynos that report equivalent gains... Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Also, see my comment about the first breather mod's effect.



So guys are not making over 300 wheel on a dyno jet with full bolt-on's?? So what are they putting down stock like 240-250HP?? Where is all that 332HP going to???? My dyno was done on a Mustang I believe, and I have seen similar results on a Dyno Dynamics.

Your also saying that a car with 332HP with full bolt-on's and a good tune is barely breaking 300 wheel if at all??? Dam these cars suck I guess.

It depends on the dyno -- some are adjusted to read high or low more easily than others.

Dynojets are very consistent, because the weight of the drum is a fixed variable, unlike the degree of load that can be adjusted on some
other dynos.

That said, those with adjustable load are better for tuning.

For a comparison of different kinds of dynos on the 350Z, see here Turbo Magazine's Dyno Dash - Tech Review - Turbo Magazine

and for a table that summarizes the % change, here
Dyno Comparison - NewCelica.org Forum

Stock 370's put down about 273 +/-5 on a dynojet with SAE correction. Drive train losses appear to be around 16.5 - 17.5%, with no clear difference between AT and MT.

Stock Nismos put down around 288-290 +/-5 (need more data to verify). My guess is that the difference is mainly due to a different VVEL tune, as they always seem to make a bit more than regular Z's with similar mods and similar fuel and spark tuning.

Tell me your mods, and I'll tell you what you'll most likely come in at on a dynojet with SAE correction. If I'm wildly off, I owe you a beer :icon17:

Based on the data I've collected and after reviewing other dynojet dynos, it looks like you need LTH, pulleys, AND a tune to creep into the 310's. Everyone else with full bolt-ons and a tune should just about break 300 +/-5.

More should be possible once VVEL can be tuned.

Check out my dyno thread for lots of details and commentary on the effect of various mods if interested ;)

^just for fun. What would I put down on 91 octane on a dynojet with

Invidia Gemini Catback
Stillen G3 intake
NST pulley
Motor dyne manifold
Motor dyne ART pipes
Up rev tune.

Yep for the set. I think I paid $108 shipped for mine.

The octane probably won't matter all that much; the Z doesn't seem to like too much extra advance at peak, and we get 93 down here.

um... lets see. Assuming a baseline of 275 (give or take) you should definitely be over 300 whp SAE corrected, but it's hard to say with the Motordyne IM as it tends to make gains lower in the rev range, and may actually hurt peak a bit.

I'll make an optimistic guess of 303 - 308 SAE corrected.

My base line is 264 rwhp on a dyno jet set at 700 ft elevation. With full bolt ons i make 300 rwhp SAE. I had one pull where is made 309. Converted to STD it made 318 and Actual power it made 320. I have the dyno charts for the above 3 runs after they were converted to each of the uniys.
We later discovered that the actual elevation is 300 FT.
Does any body know how much of difference 400 FT of elevaton would make in my #'s.
Theses #'s were before I put the Motordyne intake on. I gained 1 rwhp with it top end and from 3800 to 7000 rpm it made 13 to 15 LBs more torque and 8 to 12 rwhp more. but the top end was the same.
On the 1/4 mile 0 to 1000 ft times were way quicker and 3 mph faster but it ran the same times in the 1/4 mile.
These are good #'s for a 7 AT.

Z

Any wild chance you can get the drf's? If so would you mind sharing them me?

I always thought your dyno was bit on the low side for baseline, but from what I've seen the range is roughly 268 - 278, so it's very close to the rest of the data points.

Also, was that baseline SAE corrected? If uncorrected it could be the ambient conditions were knocking out a couple of ponies, or possibly, the engine needed a bit more break in time -- how many miles on the engine when you got your baseline?

Also, as we've both noticed, the ECU takes a full pulls to adjust itself, so if you only got in 2-3 pulls, it might have dyoned a tad higher on the next few runs. Hard to say.

I'm not sure exactly how much the difference in elevation would make, but presumably it would result in some degree of overcorrection upwards, possibly by 1-2%

If you can get me your drfs I can probably figure out more of what's going on. At minimum, I can tell you the correction factor value that was used (might also be noted on the printout).

We're pretty much at 0 elevation here in FL, so for us the only power killers are heat and humidity :icon17:

STD tends to overcorrect upwards for NA engines -- 309 is probably spot on as a conservative estimate and 318 would be a slightly high "bragging rights" dyno ;)

Not sure what you mean by "actual power", but if we estimate your drivetrain losses as measured by that particular dyno (assuming same dyno all runs) to be around 21% (which, BTW, is waaaaay higher than indicated by most dynojets, so again, I think you just had an unusually low baseline), your power to the crank now would be around 391 (SAE) to 402 (STD).

Assuming you just had a wonky baseline, going by the typically seen 16 -18% drivetrain losses would put you a bit lower at the crank of course... either way, the 300 - 309 whp (what matters) ball park sounds about right -- sweet!

Not all at once
 

First thing is not to do them all at once...........! As an old time drag racer you soon learn that there are some things that cancel others out.... The only way to be sure what works and what does not is to do one thing at a time. Then go to the strip and test it if you do not have access to a Dyno. :tiphat:

My first base line pull was 260.4 sae rwhp. Then it hit 264 on the next 2 pulls once we let the engine cool down.

Thats a 72hp loss. Does that seem right?