Just spilt the tubes after the SC, Dump the Stillen intake and go with a M370 or Z1 :stirthepot:

That, with an air-to-air intercooler and you'd have one hell of a setup.

8.5:1?! holy hell man that's low. have you tuned the kit with the new engine build yet or still in the making? are you looking to go much higher psi than just the upgraded impeller?

:iagree:

I took the day off with my engineers here in Switzerland,
the topic with the MAF's to study it.

The air mass is not a problem.
The two pipes before the compressor is in the size and length OK.
Important here is the installation of the supplied by STILLEN apron,
or the air to lead not directly to the air filter.
Turbulent air flow.

We think, the only problem is the temperature measurement.
As soon as my "Z" from the engine conversion comes back, we will be at the Intake- Plenum install a temperature sensor capable of measuring the effective inlet temperature. So I can compare the two measurements and, if necessary, correct the MAF- temperature.
At the moment we do not yet know how?

Installation and Location:

http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1419927428

MAF via OBDII evaluation:

http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1419927631

I will continue to report in the spring.

See you soon and happy holidays from Switzerland :tiphat:
Ivo

Love the draw up man :), But you should really try to get a read pre and post SC, MAF readings,

Looks promising . :iagree: .Thanks for the post !!!

Plan 'B'
 

Been doing some leg work ... here now is Plan B :

Having to stay with the 'Stillen' as is ... most everything is back in place and it is too late (and expensive cough cough) to change horses in mid stream at this point.

I will be installing a PLX DM-5 AIT Gauge/Module/Thermocouple at the Stillen manifold as Swiss370's illustration shows.

I ran this by the builder and now waiting to hear back from the Tuner.
But so far it seems a much better way to monitor the motor and more accurately do the tune (with better numbers temp wise to work with)

Next question up is possibly an upgraded Water Pump for the IC than the Stillen kit provides...
Thinking here is to create more circulation to accommodate the much larger Frozen Boost Air to Water heat exchanger = lower temps.

Has anybody tried this ??? and where could I find one ...

How is the thermocouple going to help beyond data logging? The ecu still won't see accurate IATs.

Agreed ... not 100% accurate, however, with the Frozen Booost and temps down at the IC, the Tuner may be able to provide the ecu with adjusted and closer to accurate numbers.
Not the perfect solution ... but ... waiting to hear from the tuner.

At any rate ... it won't hurt to know the exact IAT - the PLX gauge and module are top notch.

BTW, I did check out the M370 manifold and Air to Air heat exchanger - a nice set up - but the manifold would necessitate reconfiguring/custom designing the SC'r charge tubes, relocating the TB's, and I would have to eliminate the custom bracket brace.
Another deterrent was finding suitable room for proper placement of the larger Air to Air heat exchanger.

Will keep you in the loop :tiphat:

You see mikey, I bought a used supercharger kit from g37 forums and the kit had all the upgrades done to to it (pushing 12.5 psi) on the stock engine, car was making around 480whp and 357 torque, I went ahead and installed the meth kit but didnt tune yet. After few days of driving with the supercharger, engine blew (before I got to tune for meth) so I found a great deal on the rebuild engine I have right now. Unfortunatly, car made less power 462whp but made 380 torque but still not tuned for meth. I will be running meth around March and see how it goes. If I am not happy with the setup at the end, I will be removing the supercharger, selling it and buy a TT as the built engine i have now is better for a turbo setup.

fair enough, thought you would have lost a lot of power going from 11:1 to 8.5:1, turbo setup sounds good, I'm still torn about doing all the changes to mine now, probably too much $$ compared to the gains. Still waiting on pricing back from vortech supplier here in Aus to do the upgrades

Out of curiosity, how much is this going to cost you? Dont get caught up with the numbers because uou are absolutely right about the $$ going to be spent vs the gains. Extra 60hp will cost you maybe 2000? Why don't you sell your setup all together to a turbo? The reason I ask is I bought the stillen kit used of the forums for $4k with all the upgrades done as well as walbro 340 fuel pump and 1000CC injectors which was the best deal at that time. Personally, I wouldnt put the money on rebuilding the kit since I am spending thousands, you want more power, sell the kit and buy a TT because the thousands you going to spend here will yield you a lot more gains than 60hp.

yeah I hear what you are saying, it's going to be easily over $2k for the upgrades, no idea on HP gain really at the end of the day.

only kit I can get here in Aus is $10.5k and it's basically the exact same as the original GTM stage 1 kit, which for me is just way overpriced, none of the other US kits will fit the RHD setup. So would really have to get someone local to do a turbo setup, aka guinea pig, which I really don't want to be around here.. so unfortunately it's kind of do these upgrades or nothing really.

I am almost 100% certain your stock engine will not lost long if you upgrade that kit so here goes another 5-7k. Enjoy the car mikey, the headache and agony that I went through when my engine went and thousands spent was not worth the little extra power.

:iagree: Amen

He's for sure telling the truth, If I could go back and do it again, I'd left it alone at 412 WHP. The 457 WHP for 3 days wasn't worth the upgrade cost, the 9 months after I didn't have the car and all the $$$ I lost.

Mikeeeey !!!
Everything we have been saying is true ...

I dyno'd at 483 whp after the $k$$$'s upgrade ...
Made only 63 whp over the original Stillen kit (420 whp).

Gained only .1 sec at the drag strip - that's Point 1 sec. !
Only made the one run before the motor left the building.

I'm again without the car looking at another 9 months in the shop. More Time and More Money.

Had I to do it again ... I would have Built the MOTOR the right way in the first place, instead of Bolting on.

haha all good guys! I'll take your advice and just leave it alone!

Hasn't it been proved over and over again that you should never upgrade the Stillen SC?

Pretty much. More boost= more heat that the ecu doesn't know about= blown motor.

Aaaaahhhhh ;)... Now I can rest peaceful like at night again !!!
Put your hard earned $bucks$ first into a built motor and then you can do what you want to do :-)

Did some more checking : Seems our cars have BOTH MAF and MAP sensors see STILLEN pdf page 15.
What Gives ??? How does this all fit together ???

Another article states that some MAF’s have incorpated an IAT into it’s construction.
Is it possible to electrically separate the IAT from the MAF/IAT and ‘wire in’ an IAT post IC ?
Is this feasible?

I have an email in to UpRev concerning this question …. waiting waiting waiting.

BTW – Do you Turbo guys ever blow motors ???

Below are some useful links:

Discussion on Miata Forum – utilizing both MAF and MAP
Is one really better than the other: MAF/MAP based tuning - MX-5 Miata Forum

Stillen SC’r Instructions go to page 15 Plenum/MAP sensor
http://www.stillen.com/prodfiles/407770~inst.pdf

Air Intake Temperature AIT Tuning Modify Fuel Map ECU
Air Intake Temperature AIT Tuning Modify Fuel Map ECU

MAP Sensor Vs. MAF Sensor
MAP Sensor VS. Maf Sensor | Tuning MAP sensors | Evo Maf

MAP + IAT vs MAF
MAP & IAT vs. MAF «

Yep, we've got both a MAP and MAF. From my knowledge the MAF provides the IAT data, hence the problem with the Stillen plumbing. No idea if you can unmarry the two. Turbo guys blow motors too, but it seems the Stillen kit likes to detonate at a far lower power level than guys run with no issues on turbo setups. That's why I'm almost convinced that it's because of bad data from the MAF since it's pre-compressor. Lots of factory FI cars run a draw through MAF setup, but they're tuned by the manufacturer to account for it.

Awesome !!! now on another journey to find out how the MAP is being utilized.

Brrrrr
 

Now looking to send out the Frozen Boost and Stillen Manifold to the radiator shop to braze in some larger ports ~ larger hoses ~ a 12" fan in front of the heat exchanger ~ and replacing the Stillen kit Bosch circulating pump with a larger flow aftermarket (Mercedes) one.
By Golly, we'll get some COLD air in there for sure !!!

I'm interested to see how that works.


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Are you running the 2" or 3.5" thick frozen boost?

24x12x1
It was measured out by the shop to fit in the confined space in front of and on the left of the radiator...(I wasn't there when they determined it)

There is a brace that limited the depth of the exchanger.

Here is the link to the one that I now have:
Air to Water Radiator

I don't know if I can go to a shorter/deeper 12x12x2 - same capacity/area as the 24x12x1
Here is the link to that one:
http://www.frozenboost.com/water-to-...or-p-1062.html


It (and the motor) are still out of the car ... so it's not cast in stone as to what the best solution is.

I'm open to any suggestions :tiphat: Can you send the link to the 3.5"

Air to Water Heat Exchanger

My car is going in the shop tomorrow to start reworking the cooling, we are trying to use this one if we have room. It looks like we will get a little more room with the Stillen bumpers larger opening. We are moving the oil cooler to the wheel well like GTM did with a fan on it and if we have room by removing the washer fluid tank we will do both fenders to get as much as we can away from the radiator. With the frozen boost the question is do we have 26" between the brake duct fangs.

We will figure out a plan this week and order parts. The car will probably be there a couple weeks but I will let you know how it works out. I have a Aquamist meth injection kit on the car but it just not reliable enough to trust so I want as big of a cooler as we can fit.


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Thanks for the info :tiphat:
I have the stock bumper and have the line locks installed in the wheel wells.
I'm going to drop by the shop tonight and talk over some things with them and look at what we can do with the IC and Heat Exchanger.
Hopefully we can find some more room in there.

I have the Aquamist ready to be installed ... bought it direct from UK...and it took only a week to get here.
Richard @ Aquamist has been helpful in the support department...really quick on the draw when it comes to emails.
He's only support for Aquamist purchased thru UK though.

My control unit is on the way back to him, it's been in the car close to a year and has missed more track days than it's made. I didn't use it every day and more times than not something didn't work when I turned it on, I have lost faith in the system and no longer trust it. I'm just afraid it's going to stop working on the track, my meth map is to lean without it and it could cost me a engine.

I spent some time at the shop today and with the Stillen bumper we can get the 3.5" cooler in so that's the plan for now. The 7AT trans cooler is going to the drivers wheel well and the oil cooler is going to the passenger wheel well. Haven't figured out the power steering cooler but it's not that big so it shouldn't be a problem. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...aa4c12ab20.jpg


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That bumper is awesome. Wonder if it would work with a TT setup?

If the stock one does I don't see why not, it gives you more room.


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I was more looking at the side vents. There's a lot of filter shoved in there on a TT setup.

To use the passenger side for a oil cooler you have to get rid of the washer fluid tank. I didn't care because mine was being used for the meth system I'm removing. Stillen sends you a smaller one but for a large oil cooler I don't think it will fit.


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Oh if the filters are there that could be a problem.


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I believe a couple guys with TT kits have the Stillen front bumper.
I think Chris N in Houston does actually, but need to check again.