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I just don't understand why people would dump huge amounts of money into companies like GTM , Forged and etc. They have left multiple crumbs throughout the internet of burning people on other forums and have been banned as well. I do not feel sorry for anyone here. It's really entertaining. Do your homework before u blow your money. It was really obvious that GTM was robbing Peter to pay Paul. Nobody wanted to do their homework.
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Let's not bring up the threats, warnings and banning of previous Z/G owners...
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2. Yes 3. Yes To be blunt various big name shops have gone through the same issues as it's part of running a business. A customer service at that where levels of expectation vary. What's crazy is that local shops in the scene are fly by night and renamed that it's even worse! Plus the life cycle of a car enthusiast (3-5yrs) is short so things like this happen over and over. New faces, new money, and the lack of tools, time and space makes this a profitable business! Hell I've even made a few bucks just because I have a few tools, a little know how and time while others don't have that luxury... Sam/GTM I think are gonna be fine...only time will tell though |
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SAM/GTM will sustain.
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Sustain what exactly? I mean, regardless of your feelings about the guy/their business it's kinda hard to paint him into the "stoic hero" archetype here.
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GTM has NO cash left!!
http://bankrupt.com/misc/cacb14-17336.pdf |
Sam is a snake.
Browsing his MHI pre release and group buy thread is just plain depressing. A lot of us paid into his scheme. |
Well there it is people, Read and weep... No the question now is can we finally have him Removed as a vender from this forum?
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If this be proven it was premeditated than there should be some legality from you people that have paid in full and partial... Good luck..
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Funny, my name didn't make the list on that form.....
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If he owes you money, talk to an attorney. The LLC protects him somewhat, but if you can prove that he knowingly sold you something he knew he wasn't going to deliver, you can probably sue him (Sam, the individual).
I would be surprised if people don't go after him. There are quite a few pissed people out there who know where he lives/works. Edit: Not like, physically attack him. Calm down christ. |
Thanks everyone for you input. I have actually read each and every single post in this thread. This is very sad. When I launched this forum in 2008, this is NOT how thought I would ever have to deal with GTM. GTM was one of the biggest turning shop for Z platform. They were huge. In the beginning forum years, it was very hard for me to get sponsor. I remember I used to go to tuning shops contact page and email them if they were interested in being a sponsor. Used to keep my fingers crossed hoping I'd get another sponsor. Yes, this forum came a long way and so are some of the sponsors.
When Sam began his sponsorship here, he was very active. He replied pms right away, I had zero complaints etc. But he couldn't continue his good work. I think after that group buy, his performance fell rapidly and significantly beyond acceptable measure. But I couldn't just slam the door on him and say goodbye. That doesn't really solve anything for the guys who had their money invested into GTM. All I'm doing is closing the door on him and then what? He should just walk away with the money? No, I didn't want that. In the back of my mind, I was still hoping that I can get the parts or money back to the members. I gave him chance. I wanted to get a response from him stat. I have sent him 4-5 paragraph long pms (multiple times) explaining to him he is playing with hard working money of my members. I asked him very clearly he needs to take car of this first thing. I clearly told him DO NOT take any orders until you get this taken care of first. After a bit wait, he gave me a reply. I really thought he would end up taking care of the customers with the parts. But this is beyond acceptable. I had a lot of patience with GTM for the sake of my members. I wanted them to get the parts or refund but I think my patience has finally ran out. I'm officially removing GTM as a sponsor from my forum. I didn't want to do it but I have to do this. I still want him to fulfil all my group buy members orders whether it's a part or refund. If 100% of the group buy members are fully satisfied with the resolution, I may reconsider bringing Sam back but that's not my priority right now(and I highly doubt that'll happen). I just really want you guys to get your stuff. I want to thank Trips for all the threads and posts he read though spending hours and hours of his busy time that he could have been spending with the family. Thank you. You were very patient and did a great job :tiphat:. Frost also put a lot of time in with the posts. Thank you frost if you're still here :(. Cosmo, huge misunderstanding. I do not own a gtr (and I'm telling you today there is no way in earth I will ever be able to own one). I have a 2009 370Z that's bone stock with HKS exhaust. It's got 89,000 miles and still on stock clutch. I have two jobs that feeds my family and pays the bills. I sometimes work 21 hours straight bc in this economy, work is work. With the unemployment rate shooting through the sky in NJ, I'm thankful for my job. That GT-R you mention is Matt's. He is the co-owner of GTRlife.com (formarly known as NAGTROC). He is a very good friend of mine and he was the very 2nd moderator of THE370Z. I gave him that position in 2008 out of respect..he never asked me for it. In conclusion I want to say, I am sorry. To those that feels that I didn't do a good job, I apologize. I really thought Sam would pull though and deliver what he promised. It wasn't a easy situation to deal with. Me, Trips, Frost we all lost sleep, we all spent countless hours dealing with it where those hours could have been used doing something fun or amusing with the family or watch a show on tv. We were on the forum reading though GTM thread posts. Yes the forum will lose a vendor and a (permanant) source of income but it is what it is. This has been overdue and the lack of communication is unacceptable. I'm just hoping and praying all my members get their part or money back. Thank you for your time. AK |
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Don't waste your breath. The BBB is not a government agency. It is a for-profit ratings scam (much like Zagat for restauraunts). I wish more people understood this.
Here's what happens if you file a BBB complaint: -The BBB will take your complaint to the business and ask them if they'd like to respond. -The business either responds or doesn't -The BBB asks the complainant whether or not they are satisfied with the outcome -BBB posts the results on their website -Under certain conditions, the BBB will remove your complaint (if the business pays for "premium support" or whatever) That's all. It's like yelp's great grandaddy. If you want maximum visibility for your complaint posted on a non-profit site that will never remove your complaint under any circumstances, use http://www.ripoffreport.com/. I'm gonna go ahead and remove the GTM badging from my car :( |
Great job AK, it's about time..
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Ak370 you rock! Man and as per my previous post about putting my money where my big mouth is.........
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From last month on the BBB website. Is this a member on here? :eek:
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Props to AK for kicking them to the curb but honestly, would the forums have seen another dime from them anyway? Pretty sure forum sponsorships would be on the list of bills not getting paid during/after the bankruptcy.
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If that guy had my car for even two months I would have flown to California and beat him to death with whatever large heavy object I could find
EDIT::: this is a hypothetical statement. I'm saying IF that happened to me I would have daydreamed about physically harming him to the point of coma/death. |
Heh, I'm not sure I would post something that could be construed as a threat on a public message board considering the circumstances.
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I appreciate it but it begins with "if" so hopefully I won't get into trouble but I appreciate your concern. This is a genuine statement. I know sometimes its hard to tell tone from text but I'm not being sarcastic in any way.I'll will take your advice and edit! Thanks mark.
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I've stickied this thread so anyone can be pointed to it.
Thanks for the kind words AK :tiphat: Hopefully WE can move on from this bad experience Albeit for those still needing to fight for whats owed to them? I again sincerely hope you get something in the end. This was a horrible experience with whom no one would've thought this would happen to, But we need to keep vigilante on protecting others now. |
This makes me so happy I'm so proud of our administrators!! I know there were two sides to this coin in some ways but I'm glad you guys stood up for us. Just makes me proud of you guys and makes me feel that much better about calling this forum family like.
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STILLEN has been in the high performance automotive business for nearly 30 years and it is not new to us when these sorts of situations arise.
I am not going to make any comment on GTM or the struggles they may or may not be going through. I would however like to reach out to the employees of GTM. I have seen a few employee names pop up over the years. One name in particular is Mike, and I believe there is or was also a Pablo? Each time I see these names come up I see comments about excellent Customer Service and great attitudes. This sounds like the type of person and/or people that would fit well here at STILLEN. If the situation is not what it appears to be and GTM is doing well and will continue in business then we wish you all the best. However, if that is not the case, we all need jobs and I would like to extend the opportunity for us to sit down and discuss our futures. If any GTM employee is interested in speaking with us please send me an email with your resume at kmillen@stillen.com. edited to update Pablo's name. My apologize for not getting it right. |
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Glad you're using this opportunity to "do good" rather than treating it like a sales opportunity. For what it's worth, I would have gone with the Stillen kit if it put up the numbers the GTM kit does in a heartbeat. You can throw a lot of tune shops into the "risky" category but a company founded by Steve Millen is probably a safe bet. |
[QUOTE=AK370Z;2966381]
Cosmo, huge misunderstanding. I do not own a gtr (and I'm telling you today there is no way in earth I will ever be able to own one). I have a 2009 370Z that's bone stock with HKS exhaust. It's got 89,000 miles and still on stock clutch. AK ^^^Can confirm, AK has about the most stock 370z we have seen yet ;) |
that mustve been a hard move AK, but necessary nonetheless. My shop has installed countless TT kits and even a twin s/c kit from GTM. I've been his customer since the 350z days, and it is sad that with all the opportunities he had, that GTM has become what it is for right now. GTM had monopoly of the Z platform for almost near a decade. I hope he does the right thing for the clients out of their money, only time will tell. I'd say Mike and Pablo have done a great job trying to calm the mob with their hands tied. Hats off to those men, I'd take Kyle's offer if it is feasible.
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Also maybe it's schadenfreude on my part but I have to believe at least part of this situation is what happens when you treat your customers like dog feces and can't be bothered with customer service.
I don't think I've ever felt so blown off and dismissed after spending what was (to me) a large amount of money than I did dealing with GTM. |
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I appreciate that greatly and will be in touch. I'll let Pablo know as well if I can still get in touch with him. To everyone else, I am sorry to see this happen and have actually been laid off from GTM since January after Sam bounced my paycheck at Christmas last year. He said that he just couldn't afford to pay me. I'm actually surprised my account here is still active. The thing that really got my goat was that he had spent $12k on a remodel of his $750k house just the week prior to bouncing our checks. smh He was also trying to get me to take on more responsibility and after having worked for him for 5 years and never getting a raise, I basically said not without a raise. His comment was "everyone always wants more". Really? I was selling $100 - $120k per month in parts and labor for him on average. I also wrote some of the best damn instruction manuals in the industry for him, defended him for his shady business practices on the forum, worked on managing all the parts lists for all the turbo kits, supercharger kits etc. I did my absolute best to deliver outstanding customer service despite Sam's dogged determination to undermine that effort and in the 8 years I've worked in this industry, there are only 2 customers that I have ever worked with that disliked me. What's worse, is that after leaving GTM, I found out that Sam screws everyone he possibly can. If you are in SoCal and talk to other business owners, suppliers, landlords, manufacturers etc. You will discover that he has burned so many bridges it would make you sick. Hell, I overheard how he treated the turbo supplier when he had $50k outstanding debt with them. Sam was trying to get more turbos from them and they said not without him at least making an effort to pay down some of that debt. Sam said: "should I take my business to your competitor then?". Wow. Just wow. Then, after the sales rep folded like a paper napkin, Sam wrote him a rubber check for the 4 turbos. Real class act that guy. I gotta hand it to Sam though, it is absolutely astonishing that he can keep burning people. Steve Novak has it right on the money when his nickname for Sam is P.T. Barnum: "a sucker is born every minute" and Sam takes full advantage of that with his dog and pony show. I really hope that Sam is unable to continue doing business in the automotive aftermarket. While he is certainly knowledgeable about cars, his shadiness just doesn't belong in this industry. There are way too many upstanding business people that bust their asses to make good product and deliver great service. Seb@Specialty Z, Tony@Fast Intentions, and Sasha@Boosted Performance, my hat is off to you guys for fighting the good fight. Keep up the good work gentlemen. I also want to apologize to Tony and Sasha for talking smack about your guys' products and if it had been up to me, I would have been giving you guys props instead. There is absolutely nothing wrong with recognizing your competition's accomplishments in my opinion. If anything, it encourages everyone to do their best and ultimately improves the platform for all enthusiasts. In closing, I am sad in a way that GTM is practically finished. The company made some pretty kick *** products (there were a few things that could be improved, however) and it could have been awesome if someone with more business sense and integrity had been running the company. I know most of the guys there bust *** and have some real talent and despite Sam's apparent thought that machines are better than people, it was the people working for Sam that made GTM great. It's too bad he treats his most valuable assets (customers, employees, vendors, and dealers) like ****. I wish everyone the best of luck in getting what is owed to you back from Sam. If someone could find a way to pierce the corporate veil and hold Sam personally accountable, that would be even better. At least that way, justice would be served. -Mike |
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Wow. It was even worse on the inside than it looked on the outside. Getting laid off may turn out to be a huge blessing by the time all of Sams fallout settles. |
You have all my respects for coming forward, and confirming the issues that have lead to their destruction, and its people like yourself and others that will always have a job somewhere as its people like yourselves that are the backbone to companies, But sometimes a good backbone is NOT enough from keeping it from going under unfortunately.
Thanks again for speaking out. :tiphat: |
Mike you seem like a very genuine guy. Hope everything gets better for you brother
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Amen Mike!
What GTM needs is to lose Sam. Without Sam, the beast could be well oiled and could run well... I just don't think GTM will go away. I think they'll open another business name under a different owner and continue to make parts. If I had a financial backer I'd love to buy GTM, and get it up and running. The people working for Sam have a heart and DO bust their asses off only to get railed. (Pablo) If GTM does go under, I'll buy all the oil pans and distribute them to the forum at cost! So don't bid me up! Lol Mike, you got balls to say this :tiphat: Quote:
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I will say that getting a company to the level that GTM was at was a huge undertaking, but at some point you cannot single handedly manage such a beast. Sam simply did not want to let go and let someone with more experience running a successful business do it properly. The most frustrating and frightening time I had at GTM was when Sam had to have brain surgery. He simply was not going to be physically able to run the business. If he died, the company would have been toast. I offered to help run things while he was out for surgery and recovery, but he just wouldn't let go and the company suffered as a result. But the rabbit hole is much, much deeper than that and the seeds of GTM's self destruction had been sown much, much earlier. Credit can be a useful tool, but it can sink a company really quick as well. Sam, just isn't very good at managing money and meeting obligations. It's funny, I'm just reminded of a conversation Sam and I had. He claimed that everyone misses a car payment, right? I looked him dead in the eye and said I have never missed a car payment in my life and I have an 811 credit score. I guess that right there says everything that is wrong with GTM and why it is in bankruptcy. |
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1) Were you guys screening your calls? After a while, none of my calls were answered or if they were, they were answered by you and Sam was never around. Sam was always available to talk prior to taking my money so I thought that was a little odd. Most of the time, it would just ring to voicemail. I had a little luck calling from different numbers but then I suspect the area code gave me away. 2) Why did you/Sam try to blame my shop for a poorly machined bracket? I mean, that's not something a shop would screw up. They showed me the bracket and it had clearly been drilled improperly. It took them weeks to get a replacement. Sam told them to "F off" more or less and you were the one who eventually caved and sent us a new bracket. Why bother being so awful over one small part? We wouldn't have even been so uptight about it except that it was proprietary to your kit. 3) What would have happened if we had kept Sam's twin SC G37 kit that was supposed to go to Canada? At that point, you were several months overdue in shipping my kit and neither me nor the shop were very happy. We did the honorable thing and let UPS re-route it but I gotta tell you, I was really considering holding it hostage until I got my kit. 4) I really raked my shop over the coals because GTM (at that time) had a pretty solid reputation and I assumed they were the ones screwing up. I know they'll never get it, but GTM owes Moore Auto in Fairfax a serious apology after what you guys put them through (not blaming you - but the business really put a hurting on a small, enthusiast-owned shop). Thing is, they wouldn't throw you under the bus either. They just let me think it was their fault right up until the very end. I found out later that they were being given the same runaround I was. As I said in a previous post, you were always decent to me and I much preferred talking to you over Sam's dumb *** so thanks for that. I was so mad at the two of you by the end of the ordeal that I asked the shop to deal with you - something they should not have had to do. I was afraid I was going to lose my temper and then Sam was never going to ship my kit. |
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Now I say "size" because their catalogue is massive... But what good is a massive catalogue when you can't deliver on a tenth of it? I actually met you Mike, not sure if you remember, you showed me some install guides or something for the MHI kit. I was delivering sway bars for SS_Firehawk In any case, it's kinda a shame that GTM's last days are among us. It was cool seeing these moronic one offs of parts that would never hit production. Going back to what you said, what Sam's issue is, is that he's too power hungry/greedy with "his business" HE needed to be in control of everything, which is too difficult to do. And he made his catalogue too massive which isn't feasible... I am a cost analyst of a company that has 5000 SKUs... I think GTM has just as many... Difference is that we do $150,000,000 a year... I've told people this 1000 times. If GTM could stock the stage 1, 1.5 and maybe 2 SC kit, they would FLY off the shelves. That's really all they need to make to survive. Supposedly they didn't want to go through with the Mitubishi turbos because 20% would fail. I said what they should do is have 50 sitting in boxes, customer calls and says the turbo failed, next day air one out. Customer will still be happy with the amazing service... Better than not having a product to offer in the first place, and the kit was such a great deal that it didn't matter. In any case... Let's see what happens... And maybe I'll meet you again Mike, beer on me |
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1. It's too bad he treats his most valuable assets (customers, employees, vendors, and dealers) like ****. No company will EVER succeed by doing this. It's not possible. I don't care how big the company is, the above business practice will make that company eventually collapse (as you can see today with GTM). That was a class act reply by Kyle from Stillen :tup:. It's good to see good employees are recognized and given opportunity especially in such bad economy(even worse for motorsports) where jobs are hard to find. Also, nomodsjk, that was very generous of you and it made my day. Thank you. [QUOTE=R/T Tuning;2966932] Quote:
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Also last, and most importantly:
*in your opinion*, did Sam take money for the TT kit group buy knowing he could not/would not fulfill the orders? Did he plan on the bankruptcy tactic ahead of time? |
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May I ask your question in another way...? *In your opinion* Does Sam continue to sell products to generate income so that "Peter can pay Paul," meaning, does he take money to process refunds on old orders/does he talk new orders to fund old projects/other customers' cars? |
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2) Again, EVERYTHING must go through Sam. I barely had enough autonomy to answer e-mails or PM's without his blessing. There were no fixed policies and everything was whimsical. I could never second guess what Sam's decision was going to be because it was different every single time. So, I have no earthly idea why it was such a mess. 3) Well, regardless of how you felt about the situation, it would have been wrong. There is simply no justification for stealing. You did the right thing. 4) As far as I am concerned, Sam owes a lot (and I do mean a ton) of apologies for the things that he has done to just about everyone he comes into contact with in this industry. That's why there are so many haters of GTM, because he tends to make it abundantly clear that he just doesn't give a ****. The times that he does seem to care actually surprise me because it is quite rare. He's kinda like Darth Vader, there's still good in him...somewhere. |
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