That sounds really good and bad at the same time, haha. Am I correct in my understanding that if you don't use the Stillen tune it's no longer technically CARB legal?

BTW, I looked at your album. I really like your sleeper look and nice choice on the color of your Z.

I suspect that many of the negative comments you read about the Stillen tune were in this thread in response to my troubles being the first to do the Stillen SC on a 2013. (I have not read about any similar issues on 2009-2012 models).
There were troubles at the outset, but those issues have been resolved. I am at 395whp with snow tires with no attempts to improve on the Stillen tune - (I will have it re dyno'ed when the Summer tires and wheels go on).
It is my DD, it is reliable and seamless with roughly 1000 miles on the kit.
I will post issues if and when they occur, and do an update in any case when the kit has 5K on it.

Not to sound completely ignorant but what does having a 2013 have to do with anything in this case? Correct me if I'm wrong but they didn't change anything other than the bumper/wheels right? And, neither of those would effect the Stillen SC. Also, a lot of the negative comments I've read about the Stillen SC are from a year or so ago. Mainly to do with how crappy the tune is, and how the install process requires you to cut/trim/bend pieces of your car. Personally I don't want to do that, I'd like something that doesn't require me to cut stock wires, bend and cut stock parts of the car to make something fit. But, I know this thread isn't about Stillen SC installation and I could be completely wrong on the install process.

The issues from the early days were tuning problems and people not hitting the numbers Stillen quoted. There were some 'other' issues that happened on a Stillen SC car, but no way to pinpoint what caused the actual issue (a blown motor).
Current model (2013) issues I have not read up on yet, but I would imagine there will be minor issues as with each model year they adjust things which can alter aftermarket parts.

other issues would include:

-sub-par components (eg: pulleys, bypass valve)
-dollar per horsepower gain too low
-minimal torque gains over stock vs compared to other FI kits
-intercooler only adequate up to approx 12psi.

just my 2 cents.

Something we have been thinking of to assist the cooling is a larger water reservoir. Pull out that plastic thing that comes with the kit. I'm sure it warms up in the engine compartment and really doesn't help to keep the water cool at all, if anything it helps keep it hot. Also we could run hard lines from the rear to the front that would help with the heat dissipation.

I'm going to mount this 1.5 gallon tank in the rear.
1. Its inside the car making the tank cooler.
2. Only 4 ft of the hose that supplies the water to the heat exchanger will be in the engine bay.
3. More water in the tank will allow longer cool off before it recycled.
4. The aluminum will absorb some of the heat.
5. Tanks mouth is large enough for Ice for Auto Cross or Drag.

Easy mod, should help some with better boost due to the denser air. Anyway I just wanted to share this. Kelly and I were talking about it a few days ago. Will let you know how it works!!! Theory is sound.

http://www.the370z.com/members/nut_n...1160-14409.jpg

You don't sound arrogant, you sound like you are assuming you know something that you do not.

According to Stillen the ECU programming changes every year and so Stillen's tune has to change as well.
According to Stillen - the 2012 tune will not work with any year but the 2012, and so on.
The 2013 was a new ECU for them. I had to buy the UpRev cable and software before the SC kit, and do a ROM dump so that Stillen could "Crack" the ECU code. Thy did so and said the tune would be 80% good to go. It was not, the car would not run at first. Then there was an install problem with the TBA, that was ultimately solved. Finally the car came home stalling every time I would decelerate to below 20mph. Stillen had a fix for that and the fix was included in the original kit. It is a shield that covers the air flow sensors to reduce turbulence. It did not fit the 2013 because of the change in the bumper. Rather than modify it to fit, my installer assumed it was superfluous and did not install it. Stillen would not even discuss the issue further until the shield was installed. They were correct. The shield had to be significantly modified to fit the 2013, but when installed it solved the problem.

It's amazing that the inferior Stillen kit still gets this much play.

The main reason everyone goes for this kit is because with the Stillen SC and Stillen tune it's supposedly still keeps "warranty". For everyone that went this route they quickly realized the cost wasn't worth what the Stillen SC provided. The Stillen tune is complete garbage. You can almost make the same with the most mods people go with anyway i.e. exhaust intake tp/HFC and an Osiris tune.
Once people realized Stillen tune was garbage, to save face they threw the warranty out the window and went with a custom tune. Even then the gains for what ur paying is minimal.
Every Stillen owner will want more power and this is where it keeps adding up money wise. Buying different pulleys, brackets, upgrading this and that. Few posts above me this guy has to run a water/heater exchanger. It's always something este u have to upgrade or add to get little more HP out of it. I've seen direct meth injections on Stillen SC builds. It's comical. Also everytime they upgrade its straight back to the dyno for a few more pulls and redline tuning. Every Stillen owner has about 100 more dyno pulls and countless more hours at the local dyno shop than any other TT or single turbo owner out there. How's that for extra "safety and reliability" that they deceive u with.
Lastly in the end a MAJORITY of Stillen SC owners end up selling their kit and going with a TT or single set-up. I can count 3 off the top of my head. For the money pit it becomes you could save yourself a lot of grief n aggravation goin turbo.

I went stage 2 TT, os giken clutch, csc, exhaust, oil cooler and gauges. 1 time tune at Z1 and have never looked back. 1 dyno session is all I needed to achieve desired goal. And my kit is not what's holding me back for power, it's the stock block.
You guys should check out my350, they have lotta knowledge from people who tried the Stillen route. Be careful posting. They're not the same "yes" guys that I see around here a lot.

Ahh, I had no idea they change the ECU every year. I knew I was missing something, thanks.
Just curious, am I the only one that doesn't want to mangle my car to make something fit? Maybe it's a pipe dream of mine to want parts to just bolt up without modifications... If anyone can't tell I'm new to this so please excuse my ignorance

Your not ignorant buddy. For people like us we don't need to most power, the highest boost. My nuts dropped long ago in Haiti, Somalia, AFG and Iraq. For out of the box fitment to get into the SC realm Stillen Kit is a good start. I personally like the GTM kit for SC, and Boost Performance for turbo. Also there customer service is real good!

Look at it this way, do you learn to ride a Motorcycle on a 1000cc/240 HP Super Bike. For enthusiasts, the kit is fine. Just a few recommendations to make it more reliable based off guys input that have ran the kit for a wile.

$170.00 25mm dual port BOV: JSC Speed
$38.95 idler pulley 4gr116-300 3inch from Vortex

The stock bands that hold the boost side on the manifold work fine but more reliable to have these on the pressure side. Good luck with what ever you choose to do!!!

Stainless Steel T-Bolt Hose Clamps : BoostController.com LLC - America's Source for High quality turbo boost controllers, silicone hose, and more performance products - 877-836-6155- precision boost control. Turbosmart Warehouse Distributor

Thanks, glad to see there are more people out there in the same boat as me. I personally like the GTM supercharger kit the most because from what research I've done it's a cleaner install and doesn't require you to mangle you car as much the stillen kit does. But, as with anything things change and I could be wrong. Problem is even though I don't live in California and probably wont anytime soon I still want something smog/carb approved. Maybe it's overkill, but it would give me piece of mind when getting pulled over and/or going through emission testing.

[QUOTE=elperuano;2141180]It's amazing that the inferior Stillen kit still gets this much play.

The main reason everyone goes for this kit is because with the Stillen SC and Stillen tune it's supposedly still keeps "warranty". For everyone that went this route they quickly realized the cost wasn't worth what the Stillen SC provided. The Stillen tune is complete garbage. You can almost make the same with the most mods people go with anyway i.e. exhaust intake tp/HFC and an Osiris tune.
Once people realized Stillen tune was garbage, to save face they threw the warranty out the window and went with a custom tune. Even then the gains for what ur paying is minimal....

There seems to be some venom against Stillen out there. Not sure why but…
My experience was not seamless, but the above hardly reflects what actually happened.
I am no expert. I wanted SC because of the faster power response. I have had several turbo cars and could always feel the turbo lag. Even in my brothers 2011 335 with a stock TT set up the lag is apparent.
My research showed Stillen to be the best option for a supercharger. I was looking for HP gains well beyond what non-FI options can provide and from what I can tell, the statement “…You can almost make the same with the most mods people go with anyway i.e. exhaust intake tp/HFC and an Osiris tune…” simply isn’t true. The best by far I have seen any one report without FI is roughly 340whp and that was with high flow cats – definitely not CARB legal and generally marketed as an off road option only.
The GTM kit lists for $8726 for the satin kit (without an oil cooler). Their web site states “…This includes installation with before and after dyno testing. Expected results for this with tuning session are 360-400 rwhp….”
In order for them to include installation in the price one would presumably have to go to them for the install. Not an option for me.
Stillen’s kit lists at $6300 for the Satin kit and estimates 12 hours for install. The oil cooler was $600 with tax and shipping. My install costs including the 25 row oil cooler and all the extra work (due to previously described issues) was $1900. So installed with oil cooler (not included in GTM kit) was $8800. Realistically $7800 without the oil cooler.
That is over $900 less than the GTM and I dyno’d at 394 whp on the Stillen tune with snow tires. I am told by my tuner to expect roughly 405whp with my NISMO wheels and summer tires. So on a cost/hp ratio, I believe I did better than with the GTM kit.

Might not be every Stillen owner but the MAJORITY yes.
Money to power it just doesn't make sense. Ur at 394 n the highest you saw NA was 340. Compare what that NA paid to what u paid for 50 more hp.
Another thing you said was SC is instant power? At 3.6-3.7k rpm I'm at full boost. I'm barely under that rpm every shift if running the car hard so it's almost instant boost every shift after.
There are much better SC kits out there in my opinion. As always just research before pulling trigger. I like doing things right the first time to save money in my pocket and wear on my car. Too many times I've read a Stillen owner upgrading this and that, adding this and that and every change requires another dyno tuning session which is more money and wear on motor.

I think he's referring to the lag between pressing the throttle and the time the turbo needs to produce positive pressure. There's always going to be lag in a turbo setup. Your boost threshold may be 3600 rpm, but there's a delay between pressing the throttle and the time the turbo spins up. On a WOT run, it's less noticable than transitional on/off throttle situations. A turbo setup will never have the same throttle response as a SC since you're driving the SC directly off the crank pulley. It's a trade-off. SC's are going to have better throttle response while making full boost closer to redline and producing less torque. Turbos just have more steps in the process to making boost, and it shows up as lag. I'm not going to touch the Stillen vs GTM SC issue.

Quote for truth. All turbo setups have on/off/on throttle lag.

Yep. Unless you're running some sort of anti-lag setup, in which case you have either bigger balls than I do, or an unlimited turbo budget.

It's barely noticeable IMHO. It takes as long as it takes my gas pedal to hit the floor. On WOT I don't even feel it in between shifts. When cruising and I wanna make the BOV go off yea I can feel it but I'm cruising not running hard. I think you guys r giving the "lag" way too much credit. I'll still take the half second delay over that particular SC anyday.

Well, yeah. lol

You're right, it's barely there. But it's still there and some people prefer a SC for a snappier throttle and instant boost. There's a lot to be said about instant, linear response. I thought really hard about a SC, but I know that I'd end up wanting more later down the line. I didn't want to paint myself into a corner. The OP sounds like he's perfectly happy with his setup. That's great. If he ends up needing more power later, he can swap pullies, injectors and re-tune. It's not as easy as turning the knob on my boost controller, but it's not that hard.

[QUOTE=irondoc;2142067]Very well said. The only real point in reading these forums is that there are so many opinions. Those opinions are based on many different circumstances and attitudes. There are posters from the age of 15 to 50, and those that will never be happy and those that will never have enough power. And of course those who think that if you don't do it like they did it then it is wrong. The great thing is that you can read through all of that and pretty quickly determine what is BS and what you can actually use. The bottom line is your car is unique to you, and your wants are not what others may be wanting so don't get caught up in the negativity. Since this is a "Stillen" thread, I will proudly say that I just ordered my Stillen SC and it's on the way. I am completely happy with my decision and have done enough research to satisfy me. My expectations are in line with what I know about it and I plan on being okay with it. If its not, then I will change it.
Thank you for all of the info that I have absorbed from this and other threads and to all of you who just state your experiences and not just come in here to bash a product that may not have worked out for you.

hmm... first off I have never seen anyone other than one report with anywhere near 340 whp non-FI.
Additionally high flow cats and test pipes are for track use - so that is off the table. So subtract roughly 10-20 whp.

In real life - If you look at claimed numbers for the usual suspect non-FI mods you get for cost/HP gains -
Exhaust – roughly 10-20 whp for $1270 plus install
CAI – 12-20 whp, $530 plus install
Headers – maybe 15 whp – 550 plus install
Our car makes 270whp unmodified, so with all of the above you get maybe 45 whp – or 315 total for around $2400 with plus tax and installation, arguably 4K said and done, or $90/whp.

Stillen SC at $7800 for 125 whp is $62/whp – I like that ratio better.

Really I don't see any comparison in power. FI is pricey and if you look at my recent thread Stillen SC long term reports you will see reports so far of close to 500whp with minimal problems.

[QUOTE=dansracing;2142735]Well said, I can appreciate that.

I forgot about the "carb or smog" thingy. Ur right about that, but any Stillen SC making anywhere near 500hp is not using the Stillen tune therefore the "warranty" gets voided.

I spent $5500+ install for about 50whp. Pretty sure a SC will outperform that dollar per hp quite easily. Keep in mind, most people with FI spent money on supporting mods also. The kit may have cost $6k, but they also may have purchased a CBE, HFC or TP's. Most also do their own custom tuning which is another expense. That 6k all of a sudden looks like 9-10k after it's all said and done.

Ain't that the damn truth.

I agree with this, however, if you talk to Stillen they will tell you that their expected 390-420 whp is with the SC kit only (includes CAI). They actually advise against up front addition of headers, HFC's, exhaust etc, as those things complicate the tune.
In that case, other additions, are unnecessary, and purely per taste.
I have a NISMO exhaust because I like how it SOUNDS, and LOOKS.

I was quoting my Delta from NA mods, not FI. Stillen's tune is trash, with or without HFC's exhaust, whatever. All I'm saying is what most guys here are doing. Modifications to your exhaust will gain more horsepower 99% of the time over stock in NA or FI, it's not just for taste. How did Shamu push 450whp with PPE headers and stock Nismo exhaust if it's just for taste. How did he improve that by 30whp when he replaced the Nismo exhaust with the Litespeed one? Yes, I'm sure it's been retuned, even outside of that, it's a considerable improvement. I bet Stillen would sing a different tune if you asked them if it's okay to add their HFC's and CBE to their SC kit. All they are trying to do is simplify the process for the masses. That doesn't means it is the better way to do things. Please don't take this as me being brash Iron, because your statement is fairly accurate, I'm just expounding on the whole topic a bit.

SS - I did misinterpret your initial statement. No doubt this tuner stuff can turn into a bottomless pit no matter what road you choose - SC, Turbo or N/A. I don't really know exactly how Shamu got to 478 other than the 9psi pulley - but I sure would like to know, and I am sure I will find out - slowly but surely over the next 3 years.

Still 395 is such a big gain over my stock (with NISMO exhaust) 274 that I am quite happy for now. I still have some work to do on my in car sound system so any further mods will be pushed back likely until summer 2014.
Bottom line - I love this car - and the crap we can do to it to make it even more fun.

Yeah, by the time I'm done, I'll have $18k sunk into the car... Not including rims, body work, or interior mods. Busy paying it all as we speak. 395whp would provide plenty of hooligan fun. I justified my purchase to my Wife by saying I have to keep up with the Jones's (Porches, Mustangs, Camaro's, and Corvettes). Better than buying a new one because I wanted more oomph. The other part was to help get the Twin supercharger kit out the door so we can finally get some results! Guess it's my way of giving back... by being a test dummy.

SS - Nice that the wife gives a s**t about keeping up with anyone. I for one will be looking forward to your reports on the GTM Twin SC set up. Looks amazing, and looks like a very involved install.

Luckily I won't be doing it. Kinda wish I was there though, love learning. I think this has to be one of the most expensive ways to get results lol. Sometimes FI makes us do crazy things.

Ur right about that. U have lotta money into your Z. I truly hope the end result exceeds ur expectation. U damn sure deserve it.

[QUOTE=dansracing;2142735]Dan, Though you may end up going nuts with 9-10 psi pulleys, and other ways to get up close to 500whp, the initial Stillen tune will make such a big jump in power over your NISMO it will be startling. This is by far the fastest car I have ever owned. I have learned that I get much better acceleration with the traction control turned off. When on, it kicks in constantly and every time the squiggly lines show up the engine backs off on the throttle. The only problem is it is way too easy to leave tread on the pavement. You will have a blast. Who is doing the install and when do you expect it to be ready?

[QUOTE=elperuano;2141180]It's amazing that the inferior Stillen kit still gets this much play.

...Once people realized Stillen tune was garbage...


Elperuano - Just wondering here. Not challenging you or talking trash - I just want to know what exactly is "garbage" about the Stillen tune? Is it optimizing power output? Is it reliability? Why is the tune bad in your opinion?

[QUOTE=irondoc;2144884]Kit is supposed to show up this Tuesday. I have to send off the intake tube for powder coating and expect it back the following week, maybe Wednesday. If all goes right I will be sucking some serious air by Feb. 18. I will give a full report with pictures.
I don't see myself messing with the pulleys for more gain. I want to leave the system as is. If I ever do anything, I would look at Meth injection. A guy in our group who has the Stillen SC just had the Meth kit installed last Thursday. HUGE improvement. He has a 350z and has been running the Stillen kit for about a year with no issues at all. He was making 375 WHP. Adding the Meth Kit, it jumped up to like 423.
His work and my work will be done by J Tran Studios in Houston. They are experts on our cars and the tuner Johnny Tran is very good. They have done tons of FI work and countless tunes, specializing in the Nissan Z.

[QUOTE=irondoc;2144892]Well the power output is pretty bad, drivability is bad... Just from what I've read over time on other forums and this one. I don't think I can think of more than 2-3 Z's that stayed with the Stillen tune. A canned tune isn't best for every car. Any FI added to the car should always have a personal tune for ur specific car to make the best out of it.

[QUOTE=dansracing;2144932]
That's a good shop there. You're in good hands.

[QUOTE=elperuano;2145051]I feel that way as well, and your post is spot on above. The canned tune is not for every car, maybe no car. I think they just take a stab at it and send a map with the kit. I opted out of it and saved money on the overall kit.

The stillen tune sucks it lasted a week in mine and had to get it custom tuned.

Stillen gear arrived today. SC kit and a 25 row oil cooler. Intake tube goes off to the powder coater tomorrow. I am going to do a little paint work on the intake plenum while waiting. Hope to get it in the shop for installation by late next week.