Nice open ended statement....sure you could of meant "well-educated awesome human being" or of course it could go more like "nuthugger followed by this icon :nutswinger:" I guess we will never know since we are left with . . . ... and we are not mind readers

Maybe you don't understand the statements you are making when you think you are just debating to a forum member which SC to go with and why. But when you throw out that Stillen has a near perfect run with installed kits with only 1 known failure and then claim GTM has multiple with no facts to back it other than a location of one of them. But as the facts rolled in on the latter it was due to carelessness by the owner and not the kit. I am not saying do not debate but be more careful with your statements and know that something as serious as someone elses business who live and die by others perception of their name and business as a whole is not to be taken lightly. Don't go throwing out accusations without the facts in events such as these.

Instead your original statement should of looked like this:

All good info from your own experience, while eliminating the unnecessary. As you see I am in the market to purchase one of these kits in the future and could be sold one way or the other still. If there were a handful of boom stories I sure would like to read about them to determine which way to go when the time comes. Good luck on making the 500WHP you are shooting for.

WHY CANT WE BE FRIENDS
:icon18::roflpuke2::rofl2::inoutroflpuke::barf::D

Because, to quote training day, "some niggas iz always trying to ice skate uphill".


Sent from my iPizzle using magic and new-fangled science stuff

I dont believe for 1 second, that gtm hasnt had a motor blow...
I have a friends 370 motor go, he had the stage 1 kit gtm kit...
Before every gtm fan gets there panties in a bunch, ill state that
his motor blew from an inproper tune (not the kit or reliablity of the kit)
He pushed it with meth injection, and crazy timing.. aswell, the tuner has a bad rep
and will always have a bad rep.
Again he wasnt using Sam's tune, but thats his choice.
How do we know 100% sure motors havent blown up, we dont know.
Maybe the guy isnt part of this forum? maybe the guy has no interest in beening on the forum. maybe the motor blew, and he just sucked it up and started the rebiuld.
And never contacted GTM. So to say youve never had a motor blow is out of the question.
In all reality, you cant say youve never had a motor blow.
Again, im not here to bash on GTM, they make a great product and from what ive heard, have great service. If i could go back in time, i would go gtm but its said and done now.

If you read Sam's post, you would plainly see that he said that there is one engine failure with our supercharger kit that we know of. We never said what you are implying. I invite you to read a little more carefully before jumping to conclusions and making incorrect statements when the facts are right in front of you.

If it were my money, and eventually it will be. I would go for GTM. Their knowledge and service is great. And Sam is very dedicated to helping our community out.

I think you are missing the point of Sam's post. You are misleading people with your statements. That's the bottom line.

We have nothing against sharing experiences honestly and factually, in fact, we encourage it. The problem we have with what you keep posting is that you continuously portray your setup as the best thing since sliced bread when you have previously stated the exact opposite. Take a look at the posts by some of the other Stillen kit owners: they're not wearing rose colored glasses and painting it as something it isn't.

Also, what do you call a statement that is not factual with the intent to mislead your audience? I'll give you a hint: it starts with the letter "L", includes two vowels and is three letters long. Remember, a rose by any other name is still a rose.

Again, you just can't help yourself as in the same line you say the following:

Seriously? What is that supposed to mean? It's one or the other, it can't be both.

Hi Mike, Thanx for the post, The 352 WHP was on Stillens "CAN" tune the 412 WHP was after my custom tune.

And please show me where I said my kit was the best thing since sliced bread? If it was I would not have changed the pulleys, Upgraded the SC impeller wheel and would not have bought I huge front mount style heat exchanger and UPREV MAF's. An how am I miss leading, By saying my opions.. Just curious I still have not said BUY STILLEN not GTM.

OH wait on guy who was in CA and is overly worried about the Carb thing.

Again try to remember I LIKE the GTM kit never bashed it NEVER said it SUX, NEVER Said Stillens is better, IT just one someone else on here says" GTM IS GOD" I have to say well there is another choice thats all.. My overal experience is EH to say the best,

Go way back to when I frist got it and the car would not start, Hot start isseus,


Lets rest this. Thank you
Yes there are issue with the Stillen kit, Just like a think there are somethings with yours I'm not comfortable with. But that what makes the world turn isnt it? Again NOT BASHING or misleading anyone,.

Anmvq.

You did say that! Especially over at myg37. Need me to dig it up for you

Seriously? This is not the tread to be bashing each other. fact is anmvq gave his advice to OP, that advice is for Op to interpret on rather or not it's factual.
Sam said what he had to say because thats the company he works for, his product, whatever. But everyone else just needs to shut up or go start your own thread or message each other... whatever. No need for this and no one needs to protect GTM or Stillen especially if you don't have that product.
Give your Advice to OP and move on.
If trolls come on this forum and see's this BS that's embarrassing or even new guy's joining this forum seeing this type of bashing.
like my father always told me TAKE IT OUT SIDE!
Please no one else make another "what SC system is better" or "which should i go with"

Ok, ive read every post on this thread. What im saying : how can u prove his facts are real or fake. You cant. how do u know he doesnt have friends with gtm kits have blown up. you dont know that. You guys are calling him a liar, on facts you dont even have. He never once said your kit was bad, or unreliable. What give you the right to say his facts are all untrue? Mike said theres only one kit that he knows of, so what about the ones he doesnt know about?

Thanks sam for the info, I have always been interested in the GTM kit but because of carb laws, its not my preferred choice.
i know i have a few years before i have to smog but when that time comes i dont want to get flagged by my tester.

Oh I was wondering if i could inquire some information about the 4.5L stroker kit as well, I was thinking I could do that instead of going with a supercharger and make about the same power, im just looking for a little more omph in my car, nothing to crazy but i couldnt find anything on google about the kit aside from the gtm website and some youtube videos of a 350z with the 4.5L stroker kit and twin turbos

I am just wondering if it will pass a sniffer test if i have cats installed, how reliable is it, and if i can put boltons on the car(like a new exhaust, downpipes, heads, cams, ect.) and i am wondering if that would be a better way about going and building my car instead of going with a supercharger?

Thanks
luigi90210

^THIS


I am a new car enthusiast and I really dont know much about cars, I know how a supercharger and turbos work, I kind of know how an engine works and i can change oil and stuff but thats about the extent to my knowledge

I really want to learn more about whats the best way to modify my car and do it the right way instead of cutting corners and having my engine blow because i was over boosting the car or lack of cooling, ect.

OK. First of all, it is impossible to prove the nonexistence of something that does not exist. It is not up to us to prove that it does not exist, it is up to you to prove that it does. Therefore, your argument is invalid.

Second of all, when AMNVQ stated that there exists a handful of blown engines (which btw, implies more than one) and there is only one that we know of, we asked for him to back up his claim that there exists more than one. He did not/could not.

If you can't back up your claim that something exists with proof, then your claim is false. Here's an example. I claim that unicorns exist. Unless I can furnish proof that unicorns exist, the statement is false. While I could argue that it may be possible that there exists a unicorn on some far away planet in another galaxy, I cannot substantiate my claim and therefore my statement that unicorns exist is not true because I do not know that it is true nor can I prove it.

Furthermore, we pointed out that his statement of "I made 412whp out of the box" was false due to his previous statement of "I only made 352whp and the Stillen tune sucks". That does not mean that we unequivocally implied that everything he said is a lie. We only said that that particular statement is a lie and we have given proof to that effect.

Now, while it is true that his credibility is damaged as a result of his lie, that does not necessarily mean that everything he says is a lie. Only that everything he says should be examined more closely and the question of whether or not he is telling the truth has been raised.

As someone in this thread pointed out earlier, anyone reading any of this should most definitely determine whether what they read is true or not. However, had we not stepped in to correct a false assertion, the casual reader would assume that everything written is true and the falsehood would continue to be disseminated.

The stroker kit will cost you more than the supcharger and I doubt you would even match the power output.

Sounds like Mike is educated in the philosophical use of argument and practical logic :) This thread is mightily entertaining.

its as my favorite character Gin Rummy has said "the absence of evidence is not the evidence of of absence" and that "there are known knowns and known unknowns, but there are also unknown unknowns, [things] that we dont know that we dont know"

but in all seriousness, if GTM doesnt know about the blown engines than how will they ever know unless it is brought to their attention in detail

im pretty sure there are unspoken stories of engines blowing with the stillen kit as well as the gtm kit, heck im pretty sure there are unspoken stories of people blowing their engines while its stock, but if no one knows about them than no one will ever know if it truly existed or not

you have a point there.... im pretty sure the stroker kit would offer the least bang for my buck but i dont want to close off any options

I'd like to take this time to remind everyone to reread the 2nd post in this thread.


Whose a prophet?

I'm a Prophet, that's who!



:D

why do you doubt it?

The availability or non-availability of an aftermarket car part does not worry me. Who would be worried about such a thing? I realize you are in full retreat after being called out. This is the time to either stand your ground or fold - not to deflect.

It's comical how certain ones are saying anyone who doesnt have first hand experience with either product is saying to STFU it's only for the OP to decide the facts. This is an open forum if you dont like it being debated then kindly :gtfo2:. Anyone who is considering this route has interest in this information. So before you start saying this has blown and that has blown if it is heresay it is best not to bring it in to pass it as fact as it will quickly be called out. How do I know if he doesn't have a friend or friends that have a certiain SC setup that have blown them. Easy question to answer and dumb question to ask. Anyone that has said product and blown their engine has either A) notified the seller of said product about their problem and laying blame on the kit or B) owned up that they are a dumbazz and should not be allowed around said parts or anything mechanical for that matter.

Everyone gets quoted but me?? lol :ugh2:
In all seriousness, I am a big fan of GTM and their products, always have been. I have first hand experienced Stillen's Customer service, and their kit on my friends HR 350z. He has not had any problems with the kit, so far, but when we took a trip down to Stillen's facility to pick up the CARB sticker they would not give it to him because he was suppose to get his car tuned with the stock cats to be able to get the sticker. They never informed him of this and i now that for a fact because i was there before he got the install, after he picked the car up from the install, and the third time we were there to pick up the sticker. The only reason why he went with Stillen is because he lives in Los Angeles and cops crack down on street cars hard and he just didn't want to be hassled without a carb sticker at least. I know a sticker won't help all the time, but hey who knows. The other reason was because the kit is warrentied. I don't even know if they will honor that now because of the whole exhaust issue. I am not bashing Stillen, there are a bunch of good guys over there that have done alot of R&D work for our cars, which i am thankful for. So basically what im trying to say goes along with what others have said. The stillen kit is a quality system out the box, but if you plan on really pushing it, you could come across some problems and the customer service isn't the greatest. In my opinion i would go with GTM, as what i will be doing in the future. Not their supercharger kit, but their twin turbo kit. I have respect for both companies but I would go with GTM. Hope this helps OP :tup:

I try my best in English!

Hey Guys

Be nice to each other again...... :tup:

The question of what SC- Kit you should take, everyone should decide for themselves.
I find it very sad that the same war breaks out again and again, when someone asks, what SC- Kit do you recommend?

If both correctly installed, the software optimizes and the car is well maintained
and no long high speed runs are completed (can also be a normal engine explode), is the pure joy of such a SC- Kit nothing in the way.

I drive for 1 1/2 years and 22'000 Km (13'700 miles) one of these kits (STILLEN) so far without problems.
(except catalyst problems...... http://www.the370z.com/forced-induct...-sc-build.html)
Since the software is properly configured.

I am convinced, both companies and could recommend both.

@ Luigi
If you are with a distinctive engine bay (I read you like understatment) and go with carb legal like, then choose STILLEN.

If you want a little more power and unobtrusively go, then choose GTM

My personal tip:
Decide first for the tuner you can install the kit (or let it install directly from the manufacturer) and then make your decision on which kit you want.
Unfortunately I can not give any suggestion where you can go for installation?
I'm too far away (Switzerland)

Just be aware that such an intervention can go on an engine always breaking something as performance will be greatly increased.
I change the engine oil every 3'000 miles (high quality) and regularly check all of the components (air filters, belts, bearings ....).
The maintenance is for a SC- Kit of course higher than normal.

I hope I have helped you a little? :tiphat:

Greetings from Switzerland
Ivo

You know something you are so FULL of SHAT, I'm really getting sick and tired of your crap, REALLY I said on the Stillen tune I made 412WHP??( Really read my SIG?) I did sa- out of the box , Meaning there stock pulleys and SC ( The question was about the Stillen parts not the tune) Give me a Fn break man really find something else to do with your life.. An BTW if I had hours to search the internet I could fine 3 Blown motors on you kits, But that would be also if you hadnt had them closed or removed from the forums. I have been on here and myg37+350z for a long time and have read at least 3, Why else would I say so??? Do I hate you guys over there. Didnt but( DO NOW) Do I work for Stillen ?? NOPE?? Dont even really like them that much.. IS their kit the "BEST thing since sliced bread"? NOPE thats why I'm making changes.. I really was not going to post in here again because this thread is getting cluttered with crap and the OP will have issues making his choice. LAST post in here for me= Like anyone cares anyway. But all the GTM fan boys and Sam and Mike will be happy.

"Their tune is the issue, "My kit out of the box 9-10 PSI made 412 WHP, Advertised power" UM tune is mentioned NO?? Funny how you guys alwauy grab the quote after that,, OH WAIT you missed it, Didnt see it right???

Did you read the OP statment saying you have to"Over spin the SC to make the advertised power" Oh Wait you missed that also right?

BTW 3 blown motors is that big a deal out of the 100's of kits you've sold, Stop trying to sell people on you guys being perfect casue no one is.
But 3% wouldnt keep me from buying something. An we are ALL so LUCKY you stepped in and STOPPED alll these falsehoods, Wish everyone was so lucky as to have someone like YOU,,,, ' NOT

Please do!!!

thank you, it really helps to read posts like this instead of the bashing(which i kind of expected this to happen but still...), i dont plan on pushing it anymore than whats out of the box with their tune(or maybe a custom tune not sure yet), how satisfied is your friend with his supercharger kit?

I am in san diego and cops here dont crack down on modified cars unless you're street racing or something along those lines so im not to worried about a cop asking me to pop my hood but i would like to keep everything legal at that off chance that it happens
Thanks you, I kind of understood what your post said but could you clear something up, when you said the engine would break on extended runs, what do you mean?
like autobahn driving 155mph for 1hour straight or 80mph for 10hours straight?

I understand pushing your car hard will break things and that installing this will require more maintenance to keep the car running but I wouldn't want my car breaking on a drive to Vegas or something

[QUOTE=luigi90210;1908731]thank you, it really helps to read posts like this instead of the bashing(which i kind of expected this to happen but still...), i dont plan on pushing it anymore than whats out of the box with their tune(or maybe a custom tune not sure yet), how satisfied is your friend with his supercharger kit?

I am in san diego and cops here dont crack down on modified cars unless you're street racing or something along those lines so im not to worried about a cop asking me to pop my hood but i would like to keep everything legal at that off chance that it happens


No problem man just trying to help out. From what i have gathered is that Stillen's tune has problems and you are better off going with a custom tune to suit the needs of your driving and your cars mods. I hear you on the whole street racing thing. Basically just don't do anything to attract attention and you will be fine. My friend really does like his kit because, he was the first HR 350z to ever have the kit. I have rode in in plenty of times and the power is definately there. He makes 400rwhp on 100 oct on a 9lb pulley i believe. He is also a 5AT so he will make slighty less power than if he had a 6MT. The car definately moves though. All in all, he is happy with the kit, but is extremely unsatisfied with the customer service. As for reliability, i cannot say because he has only had the kit installed for about a year now and for the past 4 months his car has been going through some new paint and such because of a little incident he had with his ex gf lol so technically hes only been driving the car for 8 months with the kit. Like i said i have nothing against Stillen, but i would strongly recommend getting the GTM kit. In my personal opinion, the kit is better thought out than Stillen's, and the customer sevice is top notch, and that i can speak about from personal experience. Either way, whatever kit you get it will be a huge improvement over what you have now. So good luck and happy modding :tup:

Wow paranoid/delusional much?

What percentage of statistics are made up on the spot?

OP- buy the boostedperformance kit, best bang for you buck...
It'll walk all over both kits. Ive seen it first hand.

Holy hell! I honestly skipped page 4 and 5 of this post because, despite being in the same situation as the op on wanting a sc but liking both, I was getting pissed of reading post after post of personal attacks on one another. If this post contained half as much information as it did crying and bitching I think I could hand design my own kit! Thank you Sam for your contribution on the numbers and graphs. We are all aware that stillen has a leg up on the carb and warranty. While I'm not concerned with the carb the warranty will have some influence on my descision. Can you explain what mechanically makes your kit superior to stillen?

Hey Luigi

I just wanted to say that not a long car ride with your new kit can withstand full power! Even a normal engine can explode so ....:stirthepot:
So be careful with long full throttle over 150mph or more on autobahn driving! :bowdown:

I wanted to tell you.
Hope you understand what I mean?

Greetings from Switzerland
Ivo

is it carb approved?

it isnt a big deal if it isnt but since i live in california, anything carb approved will always have a 1up over the other kits

ill check that one out though, thanks

ok that makes more sense, i dont push my car to hard anyways, i think the hardest i pushed it was 130 since i got it

thanks you
luigi90210

Just my 2 cents for the OP..

My Z has the GTM Stage1 SC kit. Self installed in my garage last spring. Using GTM's standard tune.

Over 10K miles later, including a recent road trip from Chicago to NY, not a single issue with the kit.

If I could do it over I would have went with gtm no question
There is no growth with the stillen kit without massive modification of the kit
Not get me wrong it's a ok kit for a set. Hp range about 400 or so but once you start trying to get more power you run into many road blocks one being that
Weak water-air cooler setup for starters my car was pulling timing because the intake air was not getting cool enuff

would you recommend the stillen supercharger if someone wasnt looking to go all out on their car, and just keeping the kit as is(aside from mods like HFCs and full catback exhaust)?

i dont plan on making this a 10sec car, just a fun car that will be a good track day car

This kit is not carb approved, but the workmanship is really good.
JMAC put down 512whp on 93 oct at 8.0 psi i think? put 550whp at 9.4 psi?
something like that. I think overall this is the best kit out there, for parts and craftsmanship, sasha does it all himself, and hes one of the best welders ive ever seen. The install is super easy, The price is really good aswell.

http://www.the370z.com/forced-induct...rbo-build.html

look here ^

So, we called you out on your false claim and the best you can come back with is "you removed them from the internet"? Really? Man, not even the US Government has that kind of power. Get real.

Do you even know what "out of the box" means? When you buy a "complete" kit, install it and test it on a dyno the results are "out of the box". Not install it, test it, realize that it doesn't perform as advertised, have it custom tuned to make more power and then say "out of the box".

Seriously, you took a kit that was advertised as 515hp and when it made 100hp less than advertised, you got it tuned and then claimed that the custom tune is "out of the box". That's like saying you bought a brand new 370Z, dyno tested it, made XXX whp, custom tuned it and then say that it made YYY whp "off the showroom floor".

Also, last time I checked Stillen's website, it does not say that you have to get the car custom tuned to make their advertised horsepower.

BTW, I never claimed that we're perfect. Just that we don't ever stop trying to be better than everyone else out there. ;) So far, we're succeeding.

On the subject of mechanical differences, there are numerous points to speak on.

1) MAF Location: We use a blow through setup that reads the airflow after the supercharger and intercooler. This allows the ECU to know exactly what the air temperature is going into the engine. The ECU is then able to pull timing and add fuel if the air is too hot in order to prevent detonation from occurring. The competition placed the MAF sensors in two small diameter tubes directly in the front of the car and before the supercharger. In that configuration, the ECU is reading the coolest possible air and has no idea that the system is heat soaked. As a result, the ECU mistakenly advances ignition timing thinking that the air is nice and cool. That can and frequently does result in detonation. While the knock sensor will detect the detonation and pull timing, relying on the knock sensor to do your tuning for you is not a good way to have long engine life.

2) Belt Slip: Our kit uses the factory automatic belt tensioner to maintain optimum tension to eliminate belt slip. Our competition uses a manual belt tensioner and has had belt slip issues.

3) Intercooler: Our kit uses a large air-to-air intercooler mounted in the front of the car. The advantage of an air-to-air intercooler compared the competition's water-to-air intercooler is that an air-to-air intercooler is much lighter in total system weight. This is due to the water-to-air intercooler's need to have water in the system, a separate reservoir for water (for additional heat capacity) and a pump to move the water through the system. A disadvantage of water to air also lies in its advantage. Water is an excellent conductor of heat and a high heat capacity. Heat capacity is a double edged sword in that once is has a lot of heat in it, it is challenging to remove it. Water-to-air intercoolers are notorious for heat soak: when the system is saturated with heat and cannot dissipate it fast enough. This is a huge disadvantage on a race track when running long sessions as the system will heat soak after a few laps. While it is true that an air-to-air system is also vulnerable to heat soak, it's lower heat capacity enables it to dissipate heat faster once the thermal load has been stopped.

4) Power Expansion: We support our supercharger kit and offer the means for people to increase their power output with our system should they desire more. The competition does not.


ROFLMAO!!

Seriously, the correct information is in the first post in the link you provided. There's no need for you to think...just read and parrot back the right information.