doesnt start smoothly, uneasy idling, decreased acceleration, decreased gas mileage, gas odor inside cabin


am i hitting anything?

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think there is any way to tell without an EGT probe in each manifold runner to detect the lean condition. The injector was only found to be faulty after sending them to be tested.

I'm staying out of this, I dont care. (Peace)

My main point being is I am worried for the other people that might have issues and i don't want to see miss fortune come to them because someone didn't want to tell the cause of a problem. I am a american and I am a firm believer in trial before conviction. I don't want to see stillen convicted for something that was not there fault.

@Sam by all means jump in on this to help with the situation. Like I said my main concern is for the people that might have a faulty injector because of a bad lot. I am not sticking up for anyone in this situation but if a faulty injector can be the cause of the problem or can cause further problem then I feel people should be aware of it and not just dump the blame on stillen

I will not be staying out of this

This seems to be getting a bit out of hand here, injectors can fail, lets just make that clear, it's not common but it can happen. I was not implying anyone should have known this was an issue on weiboys car. Just wanted to clarify that weiboy did have a faulty/failing injector.

Stillen uses deatchwerk 600cc injectors which are modified Densos. FWIW, deatchwerks has been around a long time doing this, lot's of 240 guys including myself ran his injectors when they first came out. GTM used to use DW injectors too if im not mistaken, but no longer do. Perhaps Sam could comment on why? Maybe they did not like the DW/Densos or had some fail? I hear the latency on these injectors can make it finicky to tune.

I was also recently told to "stay away from deatchwerks" because of this specific incident, but that was immediately followed up with a story of a bosch injector destroying a brand new race motor. What I took away from it was, sometimes injectors fail. I don't think there is any cause for alarm regarding the deatchwerk injectors that stillen uses.

You covered a lot of it. There's really multiple definitions of a "bad injector" it could cause the car to run on 5 cylinders, the exhaust will be popping, rough idle, also our cars equipped with 7 different misfire codes. There's a P0300 that covers random misfire, then there is P0301 - p0306 which is cylinder specific misfire. If Eric's car had a bad injector on a specific cylinder, a specific code would have been present.

Making the statement that the car had a bad injector and that is why the car was detonating is such a blanket statement and is inaccurate. We spent 20 hrs diagnosing this particular car and logging all the ECU parameters via Cipher and Nissan's ConsultIII Factory Diagnostic Tool. At no point was there any indication of one bad injector. If you have a bad injector on one of the banks of the engine, your correction factor will be different since one wideband on a particular bank will read richer or leaner. Eric's car did not have that symptom.

If you have a bad injector, you will have a rich or a lean code since the bad injector will spray too much or not enough fuel which will alter the AFR target. The factory ECU pays very close attention to the correction factor and the differences between bank 1 and bank 2. The minute it sees any serious variation, it will throw a code.

Another indication of knowing whether you have a problem with a particular cylinder with a bad injector is to remove and check the spark plugs. This is an old fashioned way of getting a clear idea of how your combustion chamber is operating. If you remove the spark plugs and they all have a similar brownish color, that is an indication of a nice healthy combustion. When you have a bad injector, you'll notice that particular spark plug will be extremely white from running lean, or extremely black from running excessively rich.

Now if we start talking about spray pattern, this will open up a completely different front. Keep in mind that the DW injectors are modified Denso injectors although they will never be perfect like an OEM factory unmodified injector.

As far as why Eric's car was not running properly, the information was shared with Eric and I was very tempted to really share all my logs and the things I found, but I did not want to start a shitstorm, so I left it alone.

Sam

Weiboys car had knock, the injectors were sold with the stillen kit, the new owner had them tested after running them for a bit, and running into a problem of his own. It was then determined that the injector failed the flow test. Is it really hard to believe that the injector was faulty or failing and causing at least SOME of his issues?

You did say that you examined the car for 20 hours and were unable to fix his issues, so clearly tuning alone was not the problem, correct?

The 20 hours we spent on the car was for us to make sure that the vehicle did not have any mechanical issues as Eric was told by Stillen that his car was faulty in some way. We spent the time so we wouldn't put Eric in another bad situation since he had already bought a supercharger kit and was about to buy another one. We wanted to make sure that he would have a perfect running car at the end of the day.

I know you are a proud owner of a Stillen Supercharger and I'm happy for you. However, you are right, it wasn't simply a tuning problem. It was a combination of a design issue as well as a tuning issue. I think we should stop here, because I think I've said more than I should have. By continuing this conversation, it's only going to get ugly. I think there's a lot of information on both kits and anybody can do the research and come to their own conclusion.

Sam

I am sorry you don't agree with the conclusion I drew about the faulty injector being related to weiboys issues, but I still don't think it far fetched and if people are going to use that thread you posted as anti-stillen ammo, they should have all the facts. I am sure you did lots of testing, but that doesn't mean you can rule it out 100% and it would sure be a huge coincidence if the injector had nothing to do with it.

I would actually love to hear what you have to say about the kit, and don't see why anything would "get ugly". Despite what you might think (basing it off your bolded comment) I am not some sort of blind stillen zealot. If there is some design flaw in the kit that was causing detonation why should it not be discussed openly? I have my own theories of possible issues regarding IAT's due to the placement of the IC, but I don't know for sure.

I wasn't bashing you, I meant that I'm really happy that you're happy with your kit.

It is not really my place to come in here and tear apart another company's product.

PM'd

Class act:tup:

One bad injector does not mean everyone that has a Stillen kit has a bad one no reason to press the panic button.Im not sure why your choosing to put everybody's issues with the Stillen kit into a injector that went bad on my set up.Stillen is not to blaim at all ,I know what happened when my self and two of my friends pulled the engine. How the top of one piston in one cylinder only melted no other signs of detention in the others
detention period I can go on and on.

I am not here to start a fight with you SAM or anybody else.This thread was started because a person wanted to get info about the Stillen kit.The thread then went left field with GTM Stillen Comparison thread attacks in the thread ,and tags on the thread.

Since you decided to chime I would like to ask you this about Erics car. In your thread that you maid you mentioned that you could not get a ccurate air fuel at the tail pipe why check there in the first place? Also when you put the bung in the correct location and saw AFR of high 13's did you try and tune the car? to confirm 100 percent that the kit had design flaws.

Now I know what some of the flaws are with this kit if your trying to make a decent amount of power. But at Eric's power level I really dont see a reason why it wouldnt work with a good tune. Witch i know your more than capable of your one of the best tuners in the country.