Preparation for the STILLEN supercharger

Zsteve · 03-04-2010, 02:43 PM

Kyle when will you guys release the PSI for the trims and another dyno on stock or lighter rims than those heavy ones that were on there? And pricing.

Never mind I see in the post that went out while I was typing this one.

DannyGT · 03-04-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

I disagree. I think there is SO much more value in the Stillen kit considering the amount of testing and engineering that is currently going into this kit. If you are going to pay 5k+ for an SC, you aren't only considering price and hp figures. I have seen a lot of things that, to me, are worth much more than whatever dollar difference there is and that is even before we talk about the HP figures. Think about the fact that there is a water cooled intercooler inside the custom designed intake manifold. I'm not sure exactly where the comment about the "other" kit having more engineering going into it than the stillen one came from the other night....but I honestly fail to see how that is possible. I'm sure they will keep it competitive anyway.

I think when people are spending this much of their hard earned money they naturally tend to weigh many more aspects of the buying decision than they would for something cheaper. Price is never the #1 reason.

I'm going to agree with Travis and say this race is over.

Me and you, we see eye to eye on a lot...but I can’t agree with you 100% on this one. You have to understand, they didn’t make an intake manifold to flow more/better air...They built it because it’s the only way they can make that charger work. Also, you can’t discount the 'other' charger and their testing methods just because they haven’t released footage of them burning tires around a track. GTM has allegedly been working on this for a LONG time, well before anything from Stillen. They have also been tuning our motors far longer and have probably logged more data than any shop in the US. The fabrication and ingenuity of their kit, IMHO, is much more extensive than this setup. Don’t forget, they still haven’t tuned with anything but factory exhaust components.

Lastly, Stillen has yet to even test this on a 370; we don’t know what (if any) changes are going to have to be made. We can’t race to conclusions, especially with their rep on the 350 kits.

In reality, the race has only begun.

RCZ · 03-04-2010, 04:02 PM

I like it when people disagree respectfully and you make valid points Danny. If we always agreed then this forum would suck.

They made the manifold the way they did because it was the best solution for using what they thought was the best option as far as supercharger. They must have done a good amount of R&D to completely design a piece from scratch and make it work as well as they have. I haven't heard anything from GTM as far as what they are doing for testing or whether it has survived testing if they did. The only thing I know from GTM is that they are taking payments up front for a kit that afaik hasn't been tested. That bothers me a little bit, but it must be just me.

How long has GTM been working on this kit? I am not saying its a bad kit, dont misunderstand me, I just don't see how it is any different than any sc kit that has come before it. I think the Stillen one has more research in it and it has things like water cooling that I welcome with open arms. Stillen was working on a Monster GT-R project before the Z! As far as the fabrication and ingenuity being more extensive, please give me an example of that. Stillen hasn't tuned anything but a CARB legal car either, so..

What difference does it make if its on a 370 or not? its not going to affect any major design parts of it. Power is only going up from where it is now.

You know I have lots of respect for you, so take this as the discussion it is and nothing personal please.

G Fo12ce · 03-04-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcm2525

While comparing Dyno printouts from GTM and Stillen I noticed that the GTM sc had a million parts. On these systems under stress anyone of which could be a point of failure. Although I haven't seen the Stillen sc laid out, from what I can tell it's far less complex as to the number of components. For a DD that for me would be a plus for Stillen

Just a guess here, and not that it really matters in the big picture, but I would guess the STILLEN kit has more parts. It has an extra manifold, I/C (in the manifold) that requires a pump, lines, fittings ECT in addition to the front mount used to cool the coolant. The other kit just has an air to air routed to the stock manifold. That being said the set up STILLEN is using seems like it's nice from a consistancy point of view for hard lapping around a track.

RCZ, this is just a guess too but in some of the engine management programs I've seen the fuel/timing curves just continue at a linear rate if they go off the map (over the RPM range). We'll see what Kyle says.

DannyGT · 03-04-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

I like it when people disagree respectfully and you make valid points Danny. If we always agreed then this forum would suck.

They made the manifold the way they did because it was the best solution for using what they thought was the best option as far as supercharger. They must have done a good amount of R&D to completely design a piece from scratch and make it work as well as they have. I haven't heard anything from GTM as far as what they are doing for testing or whether it has survived testing if they did. The only thing I know from GTM is that they are taking payments up front for a kit that afaik hasn't been tested. That bothers me a little bit, but it must be just me.

How long has GTM been working on this kit? I am not saying its a bad kit, dont misunderstand me, I just don't see how it is any different than any sc kit that has come before it. I think the Stillen one has more research in it and it has things like water cooling that I welcome with open arms. Stillen was working on a Monster GT-R project before the Z! As far as the fabrication and ingenuity being more extensive, please give me an example of that. Stillen hasn't tuned anything but a CARB legal car either, so..

What difference does it make if its on a 370 or not? its not going to affect any major design parts of it. Power is only going up from where it is now.

You know I have lots of respect for you, so take this as the discussion it is and nothing personal please.

Not everything is identical between the two cars - I'm just saying, they havent even tested this kit on our car and I hope we dont get any surprises with fitment issues. Other than that, I just have two issues...

1. Why is the amount of boost not being shown?
2. The design to me just looks old, while the GTM kit screams refinement. But thats probably more of an opinion, no big deal.

Kyle@STILLEN · 03-04-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyGT

Not everything is identical between the two cars - I'm just saying, they havent even tested this kit on our car and I hope we dont get any surprises with fitment issues. Other than that, I just have two issues...

1. Why is the amount of boost not being shown?
2. The design to me just looks old, while the GTM kit screams refinement. But thats probably more of an opinion, no big deal.

Sorry guys I'm buried in work here so I'll just jump in for two seconds. Just wanted to answer these two questions and clarify that we have done all of our measurements on the G and the Z side by side and we have found that there is very little different between them. The two cars have different fuel pumps...That's about it...Everything else is pretty much the same. We will have some different brackets for the heat exchanger obviously, but that's pretty small and will take us about twenty minutes to fabricate.

1) We feel that boost pressure is really a part of the press release, so we're going to hold off on releasing that magic number until we're ready for the press release.

2) This is very much a personal opinion, some people will love the design and some will not. Just my opinion, but rather than saying the STILLEN supercharger looks old, I think it looks more like a traditional muscle car where everything is out in the open. If you prefer the stealth look then yes, the GTM kit is undeniably stealthier than the STILLEN kit. Aesthetics are very personal. Some people will say "I dont want anyone knowing what I have under my hood." Other people will say "If I'm spending $XXXX.XX I want to see it!"

DannyGT · 03-04-2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN

Sorry guys I'm buried in work here so I'll just jump in for two seconds. Just wanted to answer these two questions and clarify that we have done all of our measurements on the G and the Z side by side and we have found that there is very little different between them. The two cars have different fuel pumps...That's about it...Everything else is pretty much the same. We will have some different brackets for the heat exchanger obviously, but that's pretty small and will take us about twenty minutes to fabricate.

1) We feel that boost pressure is really a part of the press release, so we're going to hold off on releasing that magic number until we're ready for the press release.

2) This is very much a personal opinion, some people will love the design and some will not. Just my opinion, but rather than saying the STILLEN supercharger looks old, I think it looks more like a traditional muscle car where everything is out in the open. If you prefer the stealth look then yes, the GTM kit is undeniably stealthier than the STILLEN kit. Aesthetics are very personal. Some people will say "I dont want anyone knowing what I have under my hood." Other people will say "If I'm spending $XXXX.XX I want to see it!"

#2 Your absolutly right! I did mean 'old' as 'old school' - which is OK, but I am just really diggin the stealth of GTMs.

At the end of the day reliability is the most important because both kits as of right now (and I'm sure in the future) will be close in HP. Personally I love all this, I think both companies will be OK and if the competition makes both of them stronger than I'm all for it...

RCZ - lets meet somewhere in the middle when both of our cars are done and put on a show for the forum, huh huh??

RCZ · 03-04-2010, 05:10 PM

Oh you're on brother!

I didn't know you had already committed to the GTM kit.

I'll meet you in South Carolina! Maybe a trackday in Road Atlanta??

Hehe if only it were that simple!

DannyGT · 03-04-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

Oh you're on brother!

I didn't know you had already committed to the GTM kit.

I'll meet you in South Carolina! Maybe a trackday in Road Atlanta??

Hehe if only it were that simple!

I know right! Lets make a serious effort to do something like that. That would be great. I'll get some guys to bring out some nice HD equipment.

Speaking of HD - did you see the new GoPro camera's? HD, better sound, more memory - same size! I'm going to get one this week and test it out.

phantom21 · 03-05-2010, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

Oh you're on brother!

I didn't know you had already committed to the GTM kit.

I'll meet you in South Carolina! Maybe a trackday in Road Atlanta??

Hehe if only it were that simple!

Raul,

You make it to SC, I'm there.

RCZ · 03-04-2010, 05:42 PM

I have an HD Camera

Yeah I've been itching to pick up a gopro and mount it to the front bumper... If I didnt have a impending supercharger purchase I would get one now.

jmlenz · 03-04-2010, 06:37 PM

I guess everyone assumes GTM has not put their S/C through rear world stress tests because they didnt post videos? I remember Sam saying in previous threads prior to their TT release that road testing was neccesary before pubic release, no reason to think they wouldnt do this on their S/C.

Red370 · 03-04-2010, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmlenz

I guess everyone assumes GTM has not put their S/C through rear world stress tests because they didnt post videos? I remember Sam saying in previous threads prior to their TT release that road testing was neccesary before pubic release, no reason to think they wouldnt do this on their S/C.

Road testing and stressful track testing are two completely different tests my man, one is to check functionality, the other to check reliability. You cant tell how reliable a setup is until its abused in the most adverse conditions, Stillen has done their best to replicate this and their setup held up, so far, as far as reliability and functionality go, i'd say theyre ahead, but im not jumping to conclusions until more info is released for both.

RCZ · 03-04-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmlenz

I guess everyone assumes GTM has not put their S/C through rear world stress tests because they didnt post videos? I remember Sam saying in previous threads prior to their TT release that road testing was neccesary before pubic release, no reason to think they wouldnt do this on their S/C.

Road Tuning is not the same as track testing. Its not because they haven't posted videos, its because they said nothing about it in their big press release. You would think thats where pertinent information about reliability and testing would go, but instead we got a lot about pretty parts, a lot about the supercharger they are using, a bunch of pictures, one dyno and a price. Sorry and some vids of a dyno pull. Not that there's anything wrong with that either, but thats what was released.

I'm not making any of this up, it is what it is. You guys are making a big deal out of this too. I just said Stillen has done testing, not that GTM hasn't. I just don't know about it if they have.

Red370 · 03-04-2010, 06:56 PM

And I'm predicting a Stillen vs. GTM shootout between RCZ and Danny, I wanna get in on this!

03-04-2010, 02:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 23	Kyle when will you guys release the PSI for the trims and another dyno on stock or lighter rims than those heavy ones that were on there? And pricing. Never mind I see in the post that went out while I was typing this one. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

03-04-2010, 06:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
Red370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany Posts: 4,391 Drives: your mom to church Rep Power: 298	And I'm predicting a Stillen vs. GTM shootout between RCZ and Danny, I wanna get in on this! __________________ 2011 Mustang 5.0 \| 3.55's \| Lethal Performance off road H-Pipe \| Magnaflow Muffler Delete \| JLT CAI/Bama tuned 417whp/ 404 ft/lbs

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03-04-2010, 04:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1120	I like it when people disagree respectfully and you make valid points Danny. If we always agreed then this forum would suck. They made the manifold the way they did because it was the best solution for using what they thought was the best option as far as supercharger. They must have done a good amount of R&D to completely design a piece from scratch and make it work as well as they have. I haven't heard anything from GTM as far as what they are doing for testing or whether it has survived testing if they did. The only thing I know from GTM is that they are taking payments up front for a kit that afaik hasn't been tested. That bothers me a little bit, but it must be just me. How long has GTM been working on this kit? I am not saying its a bad kit, dont misunderstand me, I just don't see how it is any different than any sc kit that has come before it. I think the Stillen one has more research in it and it has things like water cooling that I welcome with open arms. Stillen was working on a Monster GT-R project before the Z! As far as the fabrication and ingenuity being more extensive, please give me an example of that. Stillen hasn't tuned anything but a CARB legal car either, so.. What difference does it make if its on a 370 or not? its not going to affect any major design parts of it. Power is only going up from where it is now. You know I have lots of respect for you, so take this as the discussion it is and nothing personal please.

03-04-2010, 05:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1120	Oh you're on brother! I didn't know you had already committed to the GTM kit. I'll meet you in South Carolina! Maybe a trackday in Road Atlanta?? Hehe if only it were that simple!

03-04-2010, 05:42 PM	#11 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1120	I have an HD Camera Yeah I've been itching to pick up a gopro and mount it to the front bumper... If I didnt have a impending supercharger purchase I would get one now.

03-04-2010, 06:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
jmlenz Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 645 Drives: a car Rep Power: 645	I guess everyone assumes GTM has not put their S/C through rear world stress tests because they didnt post videos? I remember Sam saying in previous threads prior to their TT release that road testing was neccesary before pubic release, no reason to think they wouldnt do this on their S/C.