Titan supercharger

JoeD

LOL...where do you go about referencing my track experience/abilities? You do realize that I hold a NASA Competition License and instruct Group 1/2...right?

I have yet to have the Z on the track because frankly, it's my street-car. It's evident from members here with experience that the brakes are certainly a weak-point for the car (as is the case with most production sports-cars), so those need to addressed, along with oil-cooling and diff-cooling and/or the replacement of the factory LSD, for starters. Lately, fuel-starvation has been of concern, another issue one must take into consideration.

To copy/paste one of your own sentences...These types of additions are recommended for any sports car that goes on the track. Even Porsches, Corvettes, and Elises need tweaking in certain areas before they are pushed hard on a track...so I'm in no way talking down on the Z. The 370Z doesn't need a lot of work, so I don't even know what you are disagreeing with me on.

Adding some form of forced-induction and then tracking the car will open a whole new can of worms and perhaps shine a light on weak-points no one knew existed. Still, in my years of experience, I've seen what pushing such a car hard on a track that came from the factory NA will do, and you're in for nothing but a headache. Production-cars weren't designed to be pushed on a track in the first place, so to add forced-induction onto an engine that was also not designed with it in mind just compounds failure. Take a look under the hood of any track-prepped S2000, Corvette, 350Z, or any NA sports-car. You're not going to find a turbo/supercharger. Perhaps the only exception I can think of a supercharged Miata.

So tell me again...are you arguing with me just for the sake of it?

Kyle@STILLEN

JoeD- With respect to your experience on the race track I would also like to suggest that perhaps one of the reasons you don't see FI systems, big brake kits, and other performance items on cars in NASA and SCCA and other series is because the rules for most classes (except unlimited) do not allow such modifications.

However, if you look at numerous Time Attack cars they are almost definitely running some form of forced induction and generally have no issues. However, a well prepared Time Attack car has also been thoroughly gone through and prepared for such events.

When engineered, installed, and operated properly aftermarket forced induction systems can be very reliable.

Engineering- This is a no brainer really, if it's not engineered well you will have issues. We have all seen half-assed engineering and terrible designs. Generally they are easy to see and easy to avoid. Sometimes though surprises can happen and this is when you must rely on a company who you believe or proves to you is doing all of the necessary endurance testing before releasing a part.

Installation- Installation is key in anything but becomes especially important when installing aftermarket forced induction systems. One split hose here, one poor seal there, one mistake during the tuning process and who knows what can happen. That is why a lot of companies are doing their best to make the installation process as simple as possible.

Operation- At the end of the day the owner/operator needs to keep in mind what modification they have made to their car. What fuel do you put in the car? What oil do you put in the car? How frequently do you service the vehicle? What do you honestly expect out of the car? Do you expect to be able to put 10K into your car and achieve 600 horsepower on a stock motor? Just sell your car now and go buy something else because it won't happen!

It is true and I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that Nissan, nor any other major manufacturer, plans for their cars to see forced induction if it does not come equipped with it from the factory. Rightfully so too, if they sell 100,000 Z's only 2-3% of them actually see some form of forced induction. So why should they build hot motors for only 2-3,000 cars? They wouldn't do it. That would raise the cost of the car for no good reason.

However, the Nissan motors are more than capable of handling boost on and off the track when the kit is properly engineered and installed. I assure you, Steve Millen and I will be putting our car to the test on the race track and we will not be going overboard on the car at first. We will be testing at numerous race tracks in a relatively stock trim and eventually (probably around 2011) we plan on racing the car in the Time Attack series.

JoeD

Agreed. But I was also referencing cars on the track in a non-competitive environment, i.e. Group 3 and 4 HPDE drivers who are pushing their cars to 9/10.

Again, I can't disagree, but as you said..."a well prepared Time Attack car has also been thoroughly gone through and prepared." In no way am I saying that it's not feasable to run a car with such a setup, but the tab when it's all said and done is going to be substantial. Those cars are certainly built for an intended purpose, and it's not cheap.

Plus, it's nice to be backed by a shop, like many of the Time Attack cars are.

Kyle@STILLEN

I think the most important thing to do before purchasing a supercharger or turbo kit for your vehicle (this applies to any car not just the Z) is to have a clear understanding of what you expect out of the kit you are interested in and what you plan on doing with your car. If you want crazy high horsepower and money is of no concern and you do not care about emissions legality or reliability. I would recommend turbo's. Turbo-chargers will supply you with the most horsepower possible and they sound cool, look cool, and work well.

Pros of a turbo system:

1) High horsepower capabilities
2) Very cool associated sounds
3) Looks great
4) Re-uses exhaust gases to produce additional power, which means no parasidic loss.

Cons of a turbo system:

1) Turbo's run extremely hot and n/a cars use hoses and seals (rubber components) that are not designed to withstand those high temperatures for long periods of time.
2) Requires a little bit more maintenance than a supercharger kit only because there is more heat involved
3) Turbo lag at low RPM
4) If turbo is not properly sized the powerband is like a light switch...stock, stock, stock, stock, holy-**** I'm backwards!
5) It is nearly impossible to get emissions legality with an aftermarket turbo system
6) A lot of the aftermarket turbo kits that I have seen, remove the crash beam and replace it with an intercooler. This crash beam in the front of the car houses the airbag sensors.
7) Turbo kits generally require a more lengthy installation due to the large diameter piping that needs to be run through the vehicle for the intakes and intercoolers and what not.

Pro's of a supercharger:

1) Lower underhood temperatures
2) dramatically decreased boost lag (sometimes none depending on type of supercharger and sizing and vehicle application)
3) Possibility of achieving emissions legality
4) Beautiful supercharger whine (I love it, some people dont' like it...personal preference.)
5) Generally easier to install than a turbo system because there is less plumbing required. Also, most turbo kits require hours of tuning and most supercharger systems do not

Cons of a supercharger:

1) Not as much power potential
2) Parasidic loss because the engine does have to power it
3) Possible hood clearance (again depending on vehicle and supercharger used)

Obviously we are fans of superchargers even though we do a lot of work on turbo vehicle's. These are some of the reasons that we prefer to go with supercharger systems for our production kits. They meet or exceed all of our requirements and for the average person they are the perfect solution.

I would love to hear more thoughts on the pro's and con's that I listed though!

bullitt5897

Great post kyle! I am one of those turbo heads I love superchargers but with the newer technologies I feel the turbos have really stepped up to the plate in regard to price/performance.

I agree with many of your cons on the turbo systems however I find that heat problems can many times be negated with HPC coatings vented hoods and other means. Also, Reliability is all in the tune and anyone familiar with FI knows thats the key! so we cant go around saying turbo systems are unreliable... *tisk tisk tisk* You can have two equal cars on with the same driver and different tunes and one will blow up while the other is perfectly fine same for a supercharger. As far as the airbag sensors cant they also be relocated to retain their functionality? Turbo lag is now non existent with full boost hitting in most cars and kits at below 3500 rpm where as a SC will hit full boost at peak rpm.

In racing we all know it is about the power under the curve! Turbos win in that league but dont get me wrong SC are making the way with new technology and I will be excited to see them put down big numbers like Turbo systems! SHOOT I WELCOME IT!

Thanks for adding another meaningful post kyle!

__________________
Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z *SOLD*, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054

Kyle@STILLEN

You are correct bullitt and please allow me to elaborate...

When I say that turbo kits aren't as reliable I am not referring to the engine reliability or tune. I am referring to the issues that arise due to the heat such as cracked turbo's due to rapid changes in temperature (basically stopping after a hard run) and oil leaks and stuff like that. Those are all user generated reliability issues most of the time though.

The reliability of the engine is 100% up to the tune(r.)

JoeD

Exactly. Engine-reliability is completely dependent on the tune and how far you chose to push the envelope, but reliability in this context has nothing to do with weather or not you're going to blow your engine. Where a supercharger has a turbo-kit beat hands down is overall worry-free operation, and this has almost nothing to do with power-level.

JoeD

Actually, it's only the centrifugal-style superchargers which are designed to make full boost (or close to) near redline. Positive-displacement superchargers are there very soon after WOT, regardless of engine-RPM.

However, you can't compare turbo-lag to a centrifugal supercharger's "lag" citing it only makes full-boost at or close to redline. Technically, lag is the wrong word in this context which is why I put it in quotes, as boost-response is almost instant (obviously...because it's driven off a belt). Regardless of boost-level, you still have positive manifold-pressure from the second you tip into the throttle, even with a centrifugal SC. This is certainly not the case with turbo(s).

terrycs

The impact sensor is not mounted to the impact beam which itself is only rated for about 5MPH.

C&P from FSM:

DTC B1035 [COMM FAIL] CRASH ZONE SENSOR
Main “G” sensor that generates signal voltage, when it detects deceleration beyond the specified level caused by vehicle frontal collision.

OPERATION
When ACU defines both signal voltage of the “G” sensor and the safing sensor to be that of collision which exceeds specified level, the driving circuit switches on and feed the electric ignitor of both driver and passenger air bags and pre-tensioner seat belt.

STRUCTURE
Integrated type of the G sensor element for frontal collision with output terminals for signal voltage.

INSTALLATION
Crash zone sensor is installed on the radiator core support assembly with fixed nuts.