Tire rubbing on CS fenders with Moonbeam
 

Ran in to an interesting problem and just wanted to get some input before breaking out the cutoff wheel.

Mounted my CS fenders and moonbeam arches. No problems. Fitment is top notch.

Got my tires mounted yesterday so I threw the wheels on today. Not giving it a second thought I pull it out of the garage to get a good look. Turned the wheel an hear a gut wrenching crack. Get out an see damage to the vent on the fender. Fortunately I hadn't put the carbon vent on so it is just in the fiberglass. Realize the tire is catching the edge of the fender vent.

The wheels were bought with the specs provided by CS and the tires are 285/30r20(26.7" diameter) Since the car isn't aligned I messed around with the settings. Nothing prevents it from touching, no matter how extreme.

So I figure I am left with the option of cutting the fenders and carbon vents to allow for the tire.

Any other thoughts?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3299f253f9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0bbc77ddac.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e68790bccb.jpg



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So let me get this straight you're running 285 in the front plus being on 20's ? Wow!

No wonder it's rubbing I don't think those tire specs were meant for the front.

The diameter is 26.7 which is factory size. What am I missing?

I was running 27.2" diameter before with no problem.

Edit: 27.2 was with factory fenders, and normal offsets. Now I am on Moonbeam spec wheels and running a smaller diameter on a widebody. So not necessarily apples to apples



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the BACK of the wheel is hitting the edge of the wheel well? thats so strange, i dont think i've ever seen that before

is your caster out of whack or something?

i've heard and seen rubbing on the top of the wheel well and the front bumper tab but never the back of the wheel well, its so wierd

Same here. I maxed out caster in both (+/-) directions with the SPL arms.

Maybe I should yank the fenders and take it in for an alignment before making any cuts.

I also think the specs CarbonSignal gave me are meant for the stretched tire and camber gang. As they poke past the Moonbeam overfenders considerably @ ~2* camber (as measured using home method). Sorta pissed me off since I clearly articulated the tire and camber setup to to them.
I am thinking if the wheel/tire sat further inboard it wouldnt catch at that point.

I guess I am looking at a rebarrel. SMH


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Ouch,,,i know nothing about the moonbeam/ can't help any :(

thanks man. i was just telling my brother that this is what happens when you venture out in to the unknown.

the more and more i look at the whole situation the more i think the offsets are just too damned aggressive for the tires i want to run. CS clearly anticipated some (or even aggressive) stretch on these. the rears stick past the over fender by about 1/2"

at this point i am guessing i am 10mm too aggressive on the front and about 15mm too aggressive on the rear.

gonna take a moment to reiterate how annoyed I am with CS at this point. the overall experience was good, and the quality of product is top notch, but this leaves a black eye on the whole experience. i literally spelled out my set up to them when I asked for the specs. it's clear they didn't read a damn word of it and just gave me a generic recommend.

anyway, already contacted strasse to price out a rebarrel. gotta get this done quick. ZdayZ isn't THAT far off.

i'd do:
1) check alignment at shop first, see if anything is out of whack. if you have a good shop, have them put the new fenders on and **** with the settings. Caster is just one component, perhaps they can adjust not only caster but the other arms to actually get the wheel pulled forward a bit more. I had an issue with my old S14 where Firestone was doing the alignment on the rear of the car, which had every single adjustable arm possible, plus height adjustment on the coilovers. When i get the car back the rear wheel was left sitting very far off center, but had "correct" alignment specs. Turns out they were adjusting just one arm or something. A better shop took a crack at it and got the wheel more centered by playing with all 3

2) cut that marked off area on the fender, it doesn't look like you need as much as was marked off, and since its fiberglass it shouldn't be too hard to seal up

3) rebarrel last, since thats probably the most expensive

EDIT: whats wrong with the rear?

They just poke way further than I want at 2ish * of camber

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wheel specs? cuz i'm running 275/30/20 front and 315/25/20 rear on stock body . . .

So keep in mind it is a widebody kit (overfenders) so it is meant to run more aggressive offsets.

-20et on a 20x10
-25et on a 20x12

I am thinking at this point that it should be something like

-10 to -5et front and rear for the tire setup I have at 2* camber.

I am going to have it aligned and measure everything before going any further, but I am 99% I will want it rebarelled. I might also bump to a 10.5" width up front.



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hard to believe 10mm offset would gain that much clearance when turning the wheels, but i know stuff gets multiplied

Yea I agree. I expect I might still have to do some cutting.

My complaint evolved as I continued to look at the setup more critically. I have fitment concerns all around at this point.

for a better reference on how aggressive the offsets currently are. The photos I posted in the opening post are at 3.6* (+/- 0.1* for measuring error) of camber.



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Awesome wheels.

the carbon signal specs are definitely not intended for your setup. you have a pretty square tire/wheel fitment, and you're rubbing at such a tall height. A couple fingers gap from top of tire to fender from eyeballing that picture

what are they expecting you to run? like a 255/30/20? That would be 26.0 inch diameter, but that only gives you .35 inch extra clearance, which still doesn't seem like enough

so even if you stretched tires on their suggested specs, it seems like you'd still hit that part of the fender

which is why i suspect some wierd alignment setting

Damn that sucks bro..

Time to get the dremmel out.

http://www.japanesesportcars.com/gal...onbeam-001.jpg

That's CarbonZ's car, another Moonbeam kit. Looks like he has miles of clearance between tire and the edge of the wheel well

Your wheel is 26.7 inches

how much different can his specs be? is he still on the forums, he should chime in if he can

He is running 20x11.5 & 20x13 with 275 & 325's ToyoTires. Not too sure about offsets.

so i went back and looked through my email to make sure i wasn't misremembering the details of carbonsignal's recommend. i laid out exactly the wheels specs, tires, and camber, as well as the intended purpose of the vehicle. then bought exactly the offsets they recommended. more a sanity check than trying to cast stones (although i will throw one small rock their way). not like i think there is a snowball's chance in hell that i will get any sort of remuneration from them, so anger doesn't help.

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/...psgtgsngoh.png
http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/...pss5xgpknk.png

i also found where i asked about the tire sizes on their original white moonbeam car, and while they said they didn't recall exactly they recalled it being 255/30r20 (26.1" diameter) front and 295/30r20 (27" diameter) rear. It is apparent at this point that they designed it for smaller than stock diameter tires. So I expect no matter what I will wind up having to clearance the fenders to make these tires work.

however overarching (no pun intended) all of that, i am just not happy with the fitment of the wheels in general. given the tires i am running, and the fact that i am not looking to go insane camber, i am pretty sure i am going to have to re-spec the wheels to get the look i want, regardless of the situation with the fender.

so long story short at this point i think i have various factors that might be contributing to this problem. misalignment (although i did play with all the settings except toe), too aggressive offset, & larger than expected (by CS) tires.

i will post up my final specs once i get everything settled. thanks for the input so far fellas.

started work late today just so i could go out and measure a few things. i adjusted the camber out on the front wheels to roughly 1.75* camber (i figure this is the minimum i would ever want to run, max would be like 2.5*). The rears are at roughly 2.0* camber.

I measured from the inner lip of the over fenders (obviously this could be trimmed some but ultimately the top of the tire needs to clear that, so that's why i measured from there).

Front (looks like about 25mm too aggressive)
http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/...pst4rg55iu.jpg

Rear (looks like about 30mm too aggressive)
http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/...psyujwykcl.jpg

*sigh*

as mentioned I am going to get it aligned before sending the wheels back to get rebarrelled but I am just shocked at how far off the offset recommendations were. at *most* we are talking about 0 offset wheels, which is fine, i picked the moonbeam kit because i didn't want something overly aggressive, but also WTF?!

On the off chance that Strasse built the wheels to the incorrect specs I am going to take them off and measure the the offset. Something just isn't adding up.

ouch sorry to see you facing fitment issues.
do you think it could be an improper install of the widebody fenders? just a thought as i believe there is some cutting etc to be done on the car body before these fenders are installed. Maybe the shop cut more which are making the widebody fenders sit less wide?

good call on taking wheels off and measuring the wheel offset as well. I would suggest you look at front caster setting as well.

Looking at your pictures/ the same offset F/R with a 2" stagger would apply with this kit also,,,0 through a +5,+6 would do it on both F/R wheels.
I know you will nail it,as we all don't like running spacers w/Custom wheels...Z1 does offer 2.5 & 5mm sets....you can always push them out a tad (if need be) but can't pull them back in. :)

Cutting only needed in the rear. Front is a complete bolt on fender replacement.

those fronts are huuuuuuge

wide rubber is the only way to live. as for diameter, same as stock. :)

Speaking of... I threw my old rears on the front of the car just for comparison. They are running 325/30r20 (27.7 diameter) so no hopes of it answering any problems about the fender rub. However, I am also trying to figure out this offset issue. the wheel is a 19x11 +15et, which means it runs 22mm inboard of my strasse wheel. Outer edge of the tire sits flush with the fender. At this point I am thinking the right offset for the front is going to be somewhere in that +0 offset range.

Sucks to be doing all this measuring after ordering the wheels. Lesson learned, don't trust the stance crowd...:rofl2:

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/...ps11xwujhr.jpg

so carbon signal was way wrong ?

Seems that way at this point.

In an effort not to put all the blame on them I would put it like this. If you look at most of the builds people have done, the vast majority are riding on air and/or stanced/hellaflush.

I think the lip of the strasse wheel would clear the fender. Especially if I were to run 3* camber. Combined with even a slightly stretched tire, say a 255/265, I am pretty sure there would be no problem.

So long story short they recommended wheels that would appeal to their base a s didn't take in to consideration that I was going for a performance/track stance.



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so front offset could b anywher 0 to -20 :icon14:

a degree of camber on a 26.7" diameter wheel moves the top of the wheel something like .47" (call it .5 for a rule of thumb) from the bottom. which in millimeters is about 13mm. so an extra degree of camber can make up for a lot of poke.

so yea, you pretty much summed it up. depending on camber and tire "squareness" you can easily need to change the offset 15-20mm

Has CS officially stated how much wider their moonbeam kit is that stock

no, they wont even tell you what offsets to buy until you are in the purchasing process. but i did some quick measurements before cutting. it is something like 1.25 front 1.5 rear.

edit: I measured the wheels backspacing and using a backspacing>offset converter I got -19.7mm of offset. I would say strasse nailed it. so the issue is 100% not with the wheel building process.
edit edit: will pop off the rear tires here shortly to measure them as well, but i expect to find no problems. mostly just checking off boxes to make sure i get the right measurements for this next round.

That drives me crazy. How can Carbon Signal not describe exactly how much wider their kit is than stock? Just relying on "their" specs seems ludicrous, because it winds up being your exact situation!

The only alternative is to get the fenders, install them, then use some stock wheels (or other generic wheels with known sizing), and then space them out with spacers until you get an approximate fitment, THEN order custom wheels. All of that is gonna take upwards to 8-12 months given how long it takes to order the fenders and custom wheels!

Stock body for me, at best i'd go something custom that i KNEW the specs for. Ridiculous they want whatever the **** they charge and can't tell you what the width of their fenders are, even approximately

I hear you on all counts. The reality is you can stuff enough tire under a stock body.

To be fair, I never asked for the measurements, just their recommendation for offsets. Newb mistake I suppose. I just expected them to read what I wrote and if they weren't sure, tell me what their customers usually run, but with a caveat about it being aimed at X application (x being high camber and low profiles). I woulda just sucked it up and waited the extra 6-8 weeks after installing the kit. Live and learn I suppose.

I combed through the moonbeam threads for future reference. They are not keeping the width a secret.

Reading through the moonbeam threads, they mentioned something about the fenders especially designed for the moonbeam. I assume you have those?

Looks kind of tight with OEM wheels.

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0650e72b.jpg

Ordered it all straight from them, so I assume so. I will double check with them. Wanna run a couple of other things past them anyway.

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Lot's of room on revised V2 fenders.

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/...psfa305f5e.jpg

Invoice lists v2 fenders but they certainly don't look as spacious as that photo. Wonder what the specs on that wheel and tire are.

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