Clutch Pedal After Cross Country Trip
 

How's it going guys! Car currently has a little under 35,000 miles

Luis here with a few questions after a few things I noticed while and after driving to and from Houston, Tx from Miami,Fl.

It was a long 18 hour trip, did both trips in basically one sitting, with 4-6 stops max letting the car rest for maybe 15-30 minutes. After a few hours of cruising, the clutch pedal would feel very very soft. I would throw the car in neutral to roll, and pump the clutch pedal until it got stiff again. I didn't freak out as I did realize I was putting the car in high stress, but I always tracked the temperatures of the oil and motor to make sure everything was fine.

Acceleration seemed fine, shifting was as always, but the clutch pedal would just get very soft until I pumped it a few times.

Am I being a hypochondriac? Is this low fluid? Bad CSC? Bad clutch disc/pressure plate? I've searched quite a bit on the forums, but I didn't come to anything clear enough.

Thanks guys!

PS: I'm looking at that Z1 clutch line but I have never done more than changing my oil/wheels on a car :ughdance: taking DIYs one at a time and slowly.

:) would appreciate any comments

That trip wasn't stressful for the car at all. However, you need to check your clutch fluid. I beat it is discolored. Sounds as if the fluid was getting real hot to the point it was starting to boil. You may have a CSC failure coming, hard to say. I would change the fluid for sure to a high quality fluid like Motul.

At 25k or 30k you need to change your trans,clutch and differential oils.
Your clutch fluid must be dirty and your csc is bound to fail.

bound to fail, as in no matter what I do? Or as in, if I don't change my fluids?

Thanks guys!

Its hard to say until you have it checked. But those are the signs and besides the CSC of the 370 does fail around that mileage. Its one if those crappy parts the Z has.

Eventually the CSC will fail. If you don't change your fluid properly it can come a whole lot quicker. It appears this needs to be done on this car every 15,000 miles at the min. Even the older cars with the external CSC would fail but they stayed cooler also because they were mounted on the outside of the bell housing. Regular brake fluid won't cut it either, Dot 4 is needed. As you see, heat is the enemy from having issues on your long trip.

:iagree: you toasted your fluids with that long trip.
That is why before a long trip its advisable to have the fluids checked or changed.

You lucky your Z was good enough not to fail you while on the road trip.

Some people make it farther than that. They have to be doing something different. I am at 32,xxx and going fine. I did change the fluid at 19,xxx miles though. It was a little late and the fluid was nasty.


http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/...psdxh0hi0j.jpg

wow, I always complain about her being a moody bitch. I'm glad the Z didn't give up on me during the road trip. I guess I'll be picking up some Motul 600 and get on it asap. 1 bottle for 500ml should be enough right?

That sounds like it. I failed to check my fluids as I was more worried about getting new tires before the trip. This car must really love me to not have given up on me after a 2800 mile round trip.

That's nasty, I'll go look at my fluid right now and post a picture

Oh yeah, do you guys suggest I change the line? I'm going to buy a few things from Z1 soon and that seems like a good buy.

Also, anyone have any experience with the RWJ aftermarket pedal?

I don't see an need in either. I would make dang sure the insulation on the clutch line is in good shape. The day you need to go into it and replace the CSC, that is when I would do all the upgrades.

By all means if you have the budget for upgrading your lines.

Try to check Z1's CSC elimination kit look if this is the option you would like to consider if you do plan to change your CSC.

The thing with transmission or clutch once you open the bell housing might as well change everything disc,flywheel csc and cmc. But that is me.
For now I'm crossing my fingers as I haven't any issues yet Im at 28k miles. Changed the fluids at 23k.

Guys, I don't think he boiled the clutch fluid just by normal driving. I've driven from TX to CA several times and never had an issue. Even when I had a HD csc installed, they never put the insulation back on the main line and I still never had issues. Its not like the clutch line is sitting on the cat... its still several inches from it and the cat itself has insulated heat shields on it. For the OP, I think a very small amount of air got past the csc seal. Pumping the pedal helped cure the problem, but eventually more air is gonna make its way through.

*But the fluid is dirty as hell, and should be changed asap. Another indication that the csc is failing is when your fluid is that dirty. OP, look to see if you see any types of particles in the fluid.

I agree to a certain extent. But a 2800mile road trip drive is no normal driving to me...considering your Z has 35k miles already without fluid change.
Anyway bottom line he needs to change his fluid. :tup:

2800 miles freeway driving is better than stop/go city driving.:tup:

*And Houston TX to Miami is 1100 miles

Totally agree. It is easy on a car. Stop and go is rough. Z's love road trips.

I will say that the under hood temps of these cars is hotter than most especially for the clutch master cylinder and inside the bell housing. Wish Nissan would have left the CSC on the outside of the bell housing like the older cars. Very easy to change. 10min job max.

By the way, just ran out and checked my fluid. It is starting to look crappy again just after 13,000 miles. I will be changing it again soon.

Op did say 2800 round trip drive.
I Definitely agree on this one that is why I said to a certain extent. Driving habits and maintenance care definitely plays a big role on any vehicles longevity specially on fluid changes.

I wish I can make that trip from FL to CA only if work would allow me 3 to 4 weeks off. Sad.

http://i.imgur.com/I1uajpa.jpg

Holy moly

At minimum:
Complete fluid flush and replace with Motul. And the stainless steel clutch line.

My recommendation:
slave cylinder elimination kit, Motul, and new master cylinder. The elimination kit cost me around $1200 including installation. I will never have to deal with boiling fluid or csc failures again. So the cost may be high at first, but in long run will save a lot of hassle and inconvenience.


and i just saw your pic....that fluid is fried

route i took was 1350 miles per way :driving:

I don't know how I feel about the CSC elimination kit... has anyone reporter any issues with that so far? I won't have to pay a lot for labor since a few close friends of mine have access to shops and are good, they're just rarely available. I do agree that it would be a great investment, I'm just iffy about it after reading the warnings from Z1

also, why do you suggest I change the CMC? Don't I have to drop the tranny for that?

YOu have it backwards. You have to drop the tranny to replace the CSC. The CMC is in the engine bay.

Oh... Do I need to drop the tranny for the CSC elimination kit? I don't want to have to drop the tranny until I have enough money to upgrade clutch/flywheel

Edit: I'm ordering some motul now, will I need 1 or 2 500ml bottles? Might was well replace the line while I'm at it

A) Yes, tranny drop
B) I think you would be fine with 1, but it's always nice to have a spare. Heck, order 4 bottles and you will have enough to do brakes + clutch.

FWIW, I have 51k mi on my car and stock CSC, never had any problems except once when I was on older fluid and was double clutching (practice for my other car). I run PFC fluid, and DD and track my car. Just upgraded to the RJM.

How's that RJM working out for you? I'm actually really interested on it.

I should prob learn to double clutch and heel-toe sometime soon, I just don't have anywhere to go and mess around, it's always a hassle to do anything here in Miami

UGG, Coffee in the CMC. Not good. If this is your DD car, I would go ahead and change the CMC and CSC. I can't tell if you have sludge in it or not it's so bad. Fluid exchange and be prepared to replace it pretty soon.

Most folks say they don't get a warning before the CSC goes out. Yeah they do, this is it.

I've only driven the car for 10k miles. It was previously owned by a mechanic, so I'm shocked that he wasn't caring enough to have switched out the fluids.

It doesn't seem like sludge, it's just really dirty. I will keep you all updated, I will probably be doing this next weekend. I hope my baby holds up fine until then.

I know that for the CSC I will have to take it somewhere, will I have to take it somewhere to also get the CMC switched?

Thanks all

Anyone have experience with this? http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003VX...JBHTMEAAD48DGA

Or should I stick to motul?

Third Time's a Charm
 

My 2010 is in the shop for the third time in three years for the very same issue. Apparently, the CSC (and maybe fluid used) has issues. There are numerous examples from folks of this happening, but I suspect not enough for a recall.

In my case the pedal would drop to the floor and stay requiring a manual reset via my foot, initially only once every so often, but with increasing regularity as the days/weeks progressed. I really noticed it after extended drives in which I made use of 5th and 6th gears for a lengthy distance and at higher speeds. Once you move on into 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears it would generally build up pressure a bit more during the early stages of the process.

Anyway, the first two times I did not engage maintenance at Nissan dealerships until the clutch failed completely --- which it will, in my opinion, if left alone. Each time they replaced the master and slave cylinders --- and a hose the second time around.

This, my third time, they will replace the entire hydraulics system with regards to the clutch (my understanding is that includes all hoses/mater/slave etc.) plus will go with the better fluid used in GTRs which supposedly holds up better to heat.

Note: Each of the previous fixes held out for approx one year, so I'm hoping this will be a final fix. I have also thought about adding an aftermarket slave cylinder. Not sure how that would affect the warranty and, truth be told, I'm not quite certain anyone knows exactly why the system is failing but the "fix" has been consistent.

I suggest taking it into a dealership and have them reach back to regional tech folks for their insight. I'm sure it's on their radar.

As a side note, the dealership maintenance folks will HAVE TO replicate the issue in your vehicle, so be prepared to put them behind the wheel and have them drive it for a distance. I did so with my rep and it failed 10 times after an approx 30 miles drive in 5th gear and then pulling off the highway and down shifting. Additionally, in each case my fluids were checked during the initial "screening" and found to be fine -- or at least not the obvious cause.

In a pinch, I use the Valvoline Synthetic Dot 3&4.

That's exactly what I experienced!

I hope they're able to fix your issue for good, I will probably bring it to a dealership if I can't have my problem fixed or relieved after the flush.

Have you asked if it is related to the pressure plate or clutch disk?

If ur csc had failed on u wile driving and u emptied the plastic reserve in most cases the master cylinder also pumped dry, u MUST change both master and slave cylinders. Just throwing it out there.

I don't believe to have emptied the reserve. I just bought my Motul, should be here Tuesday. I will keep you all updated.


I will do the line upgrade later on (hopefully everything runs fine until the summer), when I upgrade clutch/flywheel and have an aftermarket CSC installed or the Z1 elimination kit.

Good luck to you. Since you lost no fluid, maybe you will be OK for a little while. Make sure you suck all of the uck out of the CMC first, add new fluid, then bleed it. You can gravity bleed until it becomes clear. Don't forget to not let the reservoir run empty. If you see any sludge in the bottom of the reservoir, that is a sign of being on borrowed time. You just never know.

Also, double check for the insulation around the clutch line to the CSC.

Thank you, I'm being positive and the car has never failed me. I'm hoping that if it does fail on me, it's not during something important or an emergency.

Really love the help, thank you gentlemen (and ladies, you never know).

Now's the time to engage
 

Take it in before catastrophic failure occurs. Give them the symptoms and they'll be tracking -- again, I'm sure it's on their radar at this point. If you wait much longer, you'll engage the clutch pedal one time and it'll fall to the floor and even a manual "foot reset" won't work. It'll just flop up and down.

My concern is that, while they are aware of the issue, they're still not certain as to what is causing it. If they new it was a CSC issue, or simply the fluid used, I'd think by now they'd be replacing them with upgraded versions.

I'm sure there is a "bean counter" somewhere who specializes in working the cost-to-benefit of such a scenario. And he is not I.

Good luck! I still love the car and once "fixed" I will take it on some distance drives in 5th and 6th just to see how it reacts.

Bleeed it NOW if its all working believe me i know what am talking about just bleed it, i had sooo much metal particles, and i had to bleed it twice a month apart and only after the second bleed the clutch feels perfect, i dont think ull make it till summer the metal particles will eat ur csc seal and it WILL fail soon.

Bleeding it Tuesday/Wednesday when my motul comes in. Sadly I will have to drive to campus about 8 miles away Monday and Tuesday, but not moving more than that.

I'm waiting till summer to drop the tranny is what I meant, I will be more careful with fluids now that I'm aware