What is Up with These Clutches!?
 

It seems like I am always dealing with the clutch in one way or another...

I had both the master and CSC replaced back in February and bleed with GT-R fluid. All was fine for about 6 months, after which, I began loosing pressure in the clutch peddle after 10-15 minutes of driving to the point that I could not shift. If I shut the car off for a few seconds, I would get pressure back for another minute or so. I solved this by flushing the clutch fluid with new ATE TYP 200. The old fluid that came out was very dirty. With the new fluid, the clutch performed great and I had no issues...

...until a few days ago. I am noticing that the peddle is getting soft again after extended periods of not shifting (20 min freeway commute in overdrive). When I shift out of overdrive, the clutch peddle goes down about 75% without resistance and engages at the very end of travel before hitting the wall. If I pump the clutch, I get pressure back and as long as I am pressing the clutch at regular intervals (city driving) it doesn't give me any problems. I am going to flush the fluid out again, but I don't really want to have to do this every few months. So far, it has not left me in a state where I cannot shift, however, it is the same symptoms as before that lead to that state.

I am not racing or being hard on the car, just commuting and the fluid level never changes, so I'm not leaking. Anyone else experience this?

If you replaced the OEM CSC and master with other OEM parts, it's probably failing again. Put in an aftermarket CSC and your problems will probably be over.

After 8 months and under 10K miles of normal driving? I know the CSC is crap, but it should be better than that!

If the CSC was failing again, why would a fluid flush fix the problem? Why would pumping the peddle temporarily fix the problem? Why would there be no fluid loss?

The clutch is a fairly simple system, but I cant figure out how these problems are happening. All I can come up with is that the fluid is slowly boiling and breaking down to the point of un-usability.

No, the seals in the OEM CSC are slowly failing. Heat makes it worse, but they are failure prone regardless of fluid used. It's a bad design from the beginning.

Yes it is, and yes it should. But it isn't, and Nissan refuses to acknowledge the problem as far as I can see. So don't put another OEM CSC in the car. There are at least three very reputable aftermarket options (Z1, Zspeed, Specialty Z). I elected to go with Z1's external slave cylinder :twocents:

If the seals are failing, wouldn't I be experiencing leaks and fluid loss? My fluid level hasn't changed in months.

Dude. It's a failing master or CSC. It's the most discussed topic on this site. The OEM ones fail. The only solution is to replace the OEM CSC with an aftermarket one.

Listen to Chuck, dude. The seals are gradually failing. If it's the CSC, when they finally fail, it will be sudden, and you will lose clutch function. Fluid will get all over your bell housing and possibly on your clutch. Not good. With the CMC seals, you will notice the pedal starting to get mushy before they fail.

the master cylinder seal leaks internally there won't be fluid loss it just wont build good pressure, the csc develops a small leak dribbles out a little fluid and sucks in air becoming useless until pumped and then will work for a bit until the leak gets worse and bam gone. replace the csc with aftermarket and do the master at the same time.

If it is the most discussed topic here, then there should be a better answer to exactly what is happening. While I agree that aftermarket is the way to go, there is no way consumers would tolerate a $1500 - $3000 repair every 6 months and that leads be to believe that there is another issue here.

A failing CSC would not suddenly work as normal for months of driving with just a fluid flush. Failed seals, as you suggested, means leaking. I don't have this and no fluid is leaving the system. This means one of two things.

1. Fluid is going somewhere else when I press the clutch (not sure how that could be possible, where would it go and how would it get back into the reservoir?)
2. It is breaking down and boiling allowing for comprehensibility.

When I flushed the fluid 3 months ago, with the exact same symptoms, the problem was gone. If the CSC was failing, that would not be the case.


Is everyone here with an OEM CSC getting it replaced every 6 months?

Ok, master is leaking internally. This sounds more probable, but if that was the case and if the the CSC was leaking, I would see a drop in the reservoir level over time.

not every 6 months, but I would venture to say everyone that drives their Z regularly WILL have the OEM CSC fail eventually, so it won't hurt to replace it while you're ahead of it happening.

If it is just your master failing, you'd still want to replace both, saves the headache

I agree. The OEM unit is crap and will eventually fail. But being that I just had my master and CSC replaced, and solved this once before with new fluid, I dont think failed parts are my issue. Besides, half of my driving is on the freeway with little to no shifting so its not like im aggressively wearing it out.

That fluid won't give you much improvement for long, If you really feel like its not the master or the slave, i would recommend flushing with some redline fluid, If it still feels like crap it is the master, and yea hate to say it but they have been known to fail that quickly. Which is why no one recommends replacing with the oem parts.

I'm not sure why you keep arguing. You can try and rationalize things, but at the end of the day you aren't the first person to have your problem. Guess what ended up being the issue for all those other people? The answer has been given to you several times in this thread alone, not to mention the thousands of similar posts on this forum.

:iagree:

If you get another OEM one, just be prepared for the same $hit to happen again :ugh2:

Dealerships must love you. Lets just replace things without truly understanding what is wrong. I'm not arguing because I am not open to the possibility that the parts are failing again. I am pointing out the inconsistencies in the suggestions and my symptoms. Inconsistencies that no one has yet to actually explain. This is how you explore possible causes and discover solutions. I don't want to just fix this, I want to understand exactly what is happening in MY situation that coincide with the contradicting symptoms that I have. Do you know what else happened to all those people that got their master and slaves replaced and had their issue resolved? They all got new fluid too. Are you going to tell me that there is no way that couldn't have been the problem all along?

Here are the facts for my situation:

• No Fluid Loss
• Pressure only decreases after long periods of not shifting and while the car is driving. If it sits in the garage all night, it is still fine the next morning.
• Pumping the peddle after not shifting for a while returns pressure and pressure is consistent with regular usage in city driving.
• Flushing the fluid corrected an un-drivable situation already for months of regular/daily use and before that situation was corrected, the issue was relieved after only seconds of stopping and starting the engine.

If the system was leaking, I would be loosing fluid and a fluid flush would not 100% correct the problem for months and the actions that were taken to relieve the previous issues have no influence on the parts. This is why I am leaning on issues not related to the parts them self.

When people replace the CSC with an aftermarket, are ALL clutch issues resolved permanently? Are they replacing the master with an aftermarket too? Are they still using GT-R or equivalent fluids?

everyone that replaces the CSC also replaces the Master at the same time, it is a must, if they haven't then it will fail. There is no after market master, but an aftermarket CSC often reduces the chance of master failure, they go sort of hand in hand IIRC.

GT-R fluid is not a fix its just the dealers BS. Redline is what most will agree is the fluid that is needed.

your symptoms are consistent with master cylinder failure which takes place over a span of time. Either that or you're boiling your fluid all the time. But it is your car bro, we can all just offer suggestions.

Its a hydraulic system if you lose a half a cc of fluid and get in air pocket it wont eork right and if you can tell that you lost a half a cc of fluid from looking at the side of the reservoir you must have the most accurate eyecrometer ever. It starts out as a minute leak caused by contaminates in the fluid lifting the outer seal on the csc and eventually it wears the seal down and turns into a noticable leak. Stfu replacr ur **** and be happy. The nissan design is garbage replace it or deal. If that isnt a good enough explanation for you why dont you go hire an engineering firm to do a life and failure anaylisis study on your car, you seem upset enough to drop the $40k to get one done

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The CSC/CMC issue has been discussed at length and fully explained in many, many threads on this forum previously. I'm am sorry that you could not take the time to search and understand for yourself. You have taken a very argumentative approach, which is why you're getting the curt responses. Replace your CSC with an aftermarket solution, replace the CMC with a new OEM one, put in some Motul RBF600 fluid, and be done with it. If you want to argue with that, then you deserve to have to deal with OEM CSCs failing for the duration you own the car :tiphat:

Dude, I argued with this guy before... He kept insisting that normal street driving was causing the fluid to boil which was causing pressure loss. I told him over and over that if just installed the Zspeed HD CSC then the issue would be over. Its bad seals in the CSC, what more do we have to say about that?

*OP, call Zspeed Performance @ 937-665-0450 and ask for Joe. He will explain everything in depth if you are still in doubt with what we have already told you.

^ Op will just say that joe is just tellin him stuff to sell him parts and that it can't be true

This is routinely becoming our bi-weekly new thread topic :drama:

Along with AT v MT :stirthepot:

:shakes head: the answer to all your problems is to get an AT.

:icon18:

/thread

That's cuz AT's are for ******* :rofl2:

I had my CSC replaced with an OEM CSC, I know, I know. Have a lot of things on my plate right now and since my Z's under warranty the total replacement was $100 out of pocket for me. The clutch feels sooooo much better and smoother than before and the engagement window seems much easier to work with. If this one only lasts as long as the original I'm still cool with that. If and when it goes out again I'l pony up the bucks for an aftermarket part. Until then, I'm super stoked to be driving my Z again, it feels better than ever to drive!

I drove both the AT and MT versions. MT was way more fun. I wouldnt have it any other way in these cars. It sux the clutch system is such crap.

I have an appointment with the dealer tomorrow for a free inspection. The tech I talked to said it did in fact sound more like a fluid issue given my symptoms and how long ago the new parts were installed, so they will see. He said he has seen issues pop up due to inadequate or missing heat shielding that was removed during previous CSC replacements and if that is the case, they will flush and re-shield it at no cost for me. I have read countless posts on this topic, but I think my situation is different. We will see what they find.

THERE IS NO F'N HEAT SHIELD it's just a little piece of fire sleeve over the clutch line and it does jack. But go ahead and bandaid that ish we'll here from you again in a week or so.

Easy slick. I'm not a Nissan tech. I have only seen the underside of my own car. Someone who works on and fixes these cars everyday told me this and said that they would check it out and correct anything for free. How is that a "bandaid"?

Lol, maybe they can put in the magical "GTR fluid" and make it all better.

The funny thing is that when I had the CSC and master replaced last Febuary, they noted that they did put the GTR fluid in. 6 months later when I flushed it with this same problem, it was toast. Maybe the shop that did the original repair lied? :icon14: Thats why I went to the TYP 200... but here we are again.

Because it's not any type of fluid issue. It's a failing CSC/CMC.

LOL, my wonderful clutch is rattling and making noise when the clutch is depressed. I feel it in the clutch pedal also. I want to take it in to the dealer (old friends) but I don't want just more of the same. I most definitely won't put up with any "it's not under warranty crap". My CSC is still good at the moment but it is only a matter of time. I loath this sorry design.

La la la laaaaa la la la :wtf2:

this is unfortunately a clutch issue and you can't get rid of it, unless something is broken and you have your own unique problem.

the factory fireshield over a section of the clutch line near the bell housing is inadequate. it is possible to develop similar symptoms with just normal street driving because of the proximity of the clutch line to the cat.

You did mention that you get the same symptoms after cruising on the motorways which seems odd because the airflow would keep things tame.
With the warm ambients and traffic here in Sydney, i resorted to replacing the fluid with RBF600 and wrapping almost all of the clutch line near the cat with exhaust wrap (both the hard line and the flexible section), all the way to the bell housing.

That cured the issue and i feared the traffic no more. This was before i had the CSC replaced due to fluid loss. I think the dealer removed most of the wrap when they replaced the CSC but i havent really noticed the mushy pedal issue since the replacement. Fluid level is unchanged, colour is perfect. I'm happy enough even thouggh the clutch feels a bit too on/off for me. as in the friction point is very narrow, but im not going to disturb anythinf until it really goes south. good luck!

My clutch line on my aftermarket setup is completly un wrapped and i have noticed no problems.

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After I had my Zspeed csc installed, I went almost a year without that fiberglass wrap on the clutch line. Never had any issues either.