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So, after a long battle and roughly three trips to the dealer, I'm thinking this is finally fixed.
<TL;DR> First trip to the dealer ended in them just repeating what I had already done, replacing the MAFs. Now, I had already informed this of this thread and issue as well as the fact that Nissan was aware of the issue, but I'm not sure where that information went because they preferred to just repeat steps. I wasn't too upset with this since, under warranty both stock MAFs were only $100. Honestly, if I would have know that I would have done that to begin with and saved my time and a few bucks. The down side is, I'm 99% sure that the aftermarket ones I put in are fine even though they told me "they're just not working right." I pretty much told them that I would be back very soon. Light came back on and I was back in the shop again with a big "I told you so" grin on my face. Again I reiterated what was believe to be the issue and that they should probably start there or at the very least call Nissan and again I'm not sure where this information died... This time, they called me to tell me it was finished and that there was a known problem with a bit on the ECM. They said that they flashed the ECM with an update and did all the relearn processes and that the car was ready to be picked up. Before I even got off the phone I told them "that's not it and I will probably be back." To which they told me "well, everyone else who has had this issue and had this done hasn't been back, so it's probably the problem." I proceeded to tell them why, if I understood what the software change was actually for (as he sort of broke it down for me originally), I would be back in shortly. Since the change didn't address a root cause but rather how the ECM reacted to a code being thrown in the first place. (Honestly not sure why this was even a question but maybe I just have the upper hand as RCA is kind of my profession...) They also said that they would like if I didn't plug in my ODBII reader until my next oil change as they were concerned that it may be interfering. I'm not even going to go into the detail of how I picked this apart on the phone. Again, I basically guaranteed them I would be back. So I picked up my car... ...and she threw another code the next morning. I was too busy with work and other commitments to bring it in right away - even through I wanted to oh so bad - but got it in the following Friday. Again, I repeated what I knew and what I believe to be the issue. Pretty sure it didn't get much further than it had before but this time they at least called Nissan. "Soooo, we called Nissan and they said that it's the throttle bodies." To which I responded "and what was it that I was saying all along again?..." So, apparently they don't have a procedure for just cleaning and replacing - though I come to find out that they tech did clean them because he said they were destroyed - so they had to order two replacements which after a short debacle with the shipping truck arrived and were installed. I picked up my car this time telling them "I'm fairly certain that I won't be back until my next oil change now, you know, seeing as how you finally did what I was suggesting all along." So, I have had my car for a few days now with no issues. I'm not going to count my chickens just yet but as I said, I feel pretty confident. I understand the process that they had to go through - as I have had to work in technical support myself and sometimes you just have to redo things the customer has told you they've already done - so I'm not upset about that. That being said, it would have been nice for them to at the very least take my advice, look at this thread, and call Nissan to confirm a known issue from the start. </TL;DR> At this point, she's basically back to normal, for a car with 50k+ on it. The throttle response is a little off but I think it may still be relearning. Also I'm attributing this to stock air filters and oil that could probably use getting changed due to driving on the CEL and limp which, if I understand correctly, makes the car run rich. I do kind of miss how loud my exhaust was during this whole ordeal but it is nice to have power back. :) Thanks again to everyone involved in this thread, the advice, and the information. (Even though I couldn't get it into the right hands in the first place...) |
Awesome dude!!! glad to hear that your problem was solve :tup:
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wow man I had the same problem and a few days ago nissan replaced my driver side throttle body and now my Z runs perfect. guess my other TB is fine. glad u got it worked out too! |
I think this problem are common on the 2013+Z's.... :shakes head:
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Nissan said the same thing. a bad batch of TB's for 13's
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well at least they have to make a damn recall to resolve that problem... |
haha that's what I said but so far there not going to do anything because of how rare it is.
that's the first time my dealership got that problem from a z. at least ppl on the forums will know |
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Glad to hear you got it worked out vicster :tup:
Let hope its stays that way for ALL of us! |
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my driver side catch can gets about a ounce of oil every thousand miles of mostly normal and a little aggressive driving. passengers hardly gets any
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All the more reason to get some catch cans installed soon... Which cans are you running? |
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twin saikou michi catch tanks I had them custom sized to fit exactly how I wanted them. if anyone wants the dimensions I have them saved and the owner will remember my build if u call or email him an mention me lol http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06...6350e166ea.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06...344f2049c5.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06...911148b03f.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06...07ce6644b1.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06...b0e4b82104.jpg only thing I gotta do now is rout the lines under the gen 3 pipes to look cleaner |
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I emailed him to see if he could make it an option,
but this is what I originally emailed him. RIGHT: -s1 350z occ (modified S1 SPLIT DC3) (no 350z reservoir adapter, just regular L attachment that comes with s1 occ) -glossy red -black sticker -2.5 diameter x 5" tall -overall tall 7 1/2 (s1 350z cad dimensions) -mounting location 12:00 and 1/2 from top edge -inlet valve on top 1" over top of tank edge(like on 350z cad dimensions) -sight tube, location at 9:00 -nipple style -connection size 3/8 -inlet/outlet location at 10:00 -drain option D kit extension with 1/4 turn ball valve low also a 1/4 ball valve high (I wanted 2 on each can one high and one low) ------------------- LEFT: s1 350z occ (modified S1 SPLIT DC3) (no 350z reservoir adapter, just regular L attachment that comes with s1 occ) -glossy red -black sticker -2.5 diameter x 5" tall -overall tall 7 1/2 (s1 350z cad dimensions) -mounting location 12:00 and 1/2" from top edge -inlet valve on top 1" over top of tank edge(like on 350z cad dimensions) -sight tube, location at 3:00 -nipple style -connection size 3/8 -inlet/outlet location at 2:00 -drain option D kit extension with 1/4 turn ball valve low also a 1/4 ball valve high (I wanted 2 on each can one high and one low) ----------------- I also need this stuff: -9" foot of: HS-375-SAE 3/8" ID black SAE 30R7 hose -8 #4 worm gear hose clamps for 3/8 hose this is where I will be mounting them to the stock airbox tab (left an right white circular tabs) like in this persons DIY: http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...cans-370z.html this is where I got the idea, I just want my dimensions a little different then his. here is the drawling http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06...0aca67a0ea.jpg |
except the sketch doesn't have the 2nd 1/4 turn ball valve cuz I added that later only because I didn't want the oil sitting in the lover ind of the hose. I wanted it in the catch can so it gives me the option to open 1 or both ball valves. also to utilize the sight tube for oil hight in the can
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he just sent me this email back:
Oh hey! Sounds awesome! They can just say it's the OCC pair for the 370z. It is now the S1-370Z-D dual setup. They can add the Sight Tubes and or Drain Extensions if they like, but those are normal options. Thanks !!! ------- so just email him from his site http://www.saikoumichi.com |
throttle bodies eh?
That's a bit scary isn't it? DBW engine with two throttle bodies that cant tell the ECU they are shut when they shouldn't be? I guess it's better than wide open but ecu thinking they're not! Did your cars log any codes? How was it finally determined that the throttle bodies were at issue? I mean, what is the root cause or the actual faulty component in the TB? |
Not exactly...
Yes, there were codes and the codes were MAF related. The throttle bodies are not really the issue. It's the buildup in the throttle bodies that cause the problems. As a couple in this thread mentioned doing, cleaning the throttle bodies also works to fix this issue. So what's the root cause? Probably a few things but we're leaning towards a combination of oil output from the PCV and oil/junk from the filters. So what's the problem with the ECU? And as you stated, why can't the ECU tell they are shut when they shouldn't be? Well, this is my take on it: The ECU does see that there is a problem but not with the TBs. When the car is started and begins to idle the ECU sees two non equal outputs from the MAFs from each intake bank. It begins to prefail the MAF sensor that appears to be reporting a non-normal idle air flow based on how much air should be allowed through a closed TB. It also decides to put the car into a limited power mode at this point (though this part is odd and doesn't seem to happen all the time during the prefail but is consistent once the CEL is on and the code is fully thrown) as I would imagine it is trying to prevent damage to the engine with different intake levels to the manifold. Eventually the code is fully failed and CEL comes on. So why? I suppose the ECU is programmed to think a sensor has failed before the TB, which sorta makes sense to me. So, is there a fault component in the TB? No. Plain and simple, no. It's just that Nissan doesn't have a clean up procedure for this issue and just replaces the entire throttle body - which is somewhat normal in this industry these days. This is basically why the next step for me is to get a good set of catch cans and to not use oiled filters anymore. Plenty of good dry filters (even in some of the nicer CAIs such as the Stillen)... |
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juldOzer:
for me leading up to it the only problems I had were the random limp mode/throttle lag and a feeling like my car was not as quick to respond an even a slight sluggish feeling too. then one day it just completely stopped and I got the only code was p0113, bad IAT sensor. nissan said its only certain throttle body's that have the problem so changing it out for a new one will get rid of the problem for good. here's the work order receipt: http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07...5fca96e578.jpg after the replaced it it feels like a got a tune again, more responsive and haven't had an issue since |
great dude!
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Seems odd. These are low mileage cars yeah?
I cleaned mine at approx 60000km (cant remember exact mileage before i sold it) and the amount of gunk on there was negligible. It was mostly just condensed oil vapour & came off easily with carby cleaner & some light wiping. The worst was on the edge of the flap and where it rests in the throat. This is where the crusted carbon was. After cleaning & performing the required resets/relearns, idle was very stable 650 +/- 30rpm. I had the Stillen intake for most of that 60k km. Idle TPS as per my scangauge became 1 degree instead of 3-4. You guys make me want to dig up my Uprev logs and compare the air flow across both banks - but my laptop with the data on it had died. Vicster, good explanation and it's plausible. I should've taken off my intake piping to see the throttle body behaviour under various conditions before i sold the car. To this day, i'm still not convinced the TPS readout via OBD2 is a pseudo-throttle position like some people have explained on various forums. My Uprev logs suggested that the throttle bodies did behave like the TPS readout indicated. So i guess the question is: despite VVEL, do the throttle bodies still play a primary role in air throttling? The official stuff from Nissan tells me the throttle bodies on VVEL engines are wide open most of the time.... which is contrary to my logs. Then there's the Uprev throttle map tweaks which seem to directly influence throttle body behaviour, rather than VVEL behaviour. To me, the throttle bodies still have greatest control over air throttling on our engines. |
Interesting point...
Yeah, much of what I wrote is speculation based on what we have gathered and the very little detail from Nissan. Also, My car has ~54k on it and this started escalating slowing after about 35k. So maybe you are right; combination of things going on? Who knows... The one thing I do know for sure is that the tech that did all the work on my car said the TB's were VERY bad. He cleaned them up a lot and said they probably would have been fine but was told to replace them by Nissan anyway. So far, my car is significantly better. Due for an oil change here very soon so I should be able to tell if some of the sluggishness is just from the oil. Though I can say, as time has gone on I feel like the car has gotten slightly more responsive. |
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I'm thinking of checking mine into Naples Nissan soon. I have a '13 7AT w/ approx 16,000 miles, and i'm now getting the random limp mode while driving, however, the only times I can say for certain this happens is when I start the car (parked), turn on the A/C, and then begin to drive. I have not experienced limp mode with the A/C off, unless limp was already engaged (turning the A/C off after i notice it, does not correct the problem). Problem only goes away after turning the car off, and right back on (keeping A/C off the 2nd time). On my way into work this morning, while driving, i engaged the A/C to see if it was an immediate trigger to limp mode, it did not, the power was fine. This is so bizarre. I do have a Bluetooth OBDII dongle I can try to see if there are any codes this weekend, there are no lights triggered currently. |
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I took it to Naples nissan, they were real nice and had no problem replacing it (only driver side) but u gotta remember my car wouldn't run, just start then stall out right away but before it wouldn't start an it was just the limp mode problem the only way to fix it was also to turn my car off an on. |
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I have the Z1 tubes only under the hood, i see you have CAI's. So i'm going to try to get any codes first, I hate bringing the car in without any ammo if you know what I mean. |
yeah I told them I had gen3's, test pipes an exhaust.
when I went there I had no ammo (codes) lol |
throttle bodys.. i have a 2014 with less than 10k on it and mine wont go over 1500rpm
thought it was limp mode but i guess not, now im just praying its the throttle body that needs to be cleaned. |
Hey all. I just finished reading all 11 pages. I'm having all the same problems you guys are. I've been through limp mode once and when I towed it to Nissan it worked again magically. My car feels choked and takes a few seconds before it hits 2k rpms then it comes back to life. Legit scared to drive the car at times. Sometimes when I drive I know it's holding back power. Randomly at stops my car will freak out at idle (sometimes shutting off). Sometimes a restart helps. Sometimes driving a little helps. Sometimes 5 restarts help. Sometimes crying in the fetal position helps.
*I have a 2013 base model but I supercharged it. I have 15k miles but it started probably around 12k. My heart is crushed. I'm spending more money fixing this thing than I ever dreamed I would. To my understanding, the problem is the TB and the preventative care is catch cans?* There is no consistency with the error. I've had random error codes up. I've had no error codes pop up. I've had days where it rips and gets up to 10psi but usually it feels like it's injured and can barely get to 6. How is this such a big issue????I had a vacuum leak we fixed but the problem still remainds. This was a pic before we fixed the leak. http://i59.tinypic.com/23w8akm.jpg |
This problem resurfaced for me last week, after a whole year without issues. but im not mad, as the dealer warned me this would probably happen again when the TBs got dirty, which kind of makes sense. The way i see it, this is part of the yearly maintenance items that i will have to do from now on.
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so i just looked a the throttle body and it looks cleaned so i didnt clean it so i dont think it is.. but heres the situation,
when i start up the car and accelerte it, it will go up to 7-8000rpm! but it will only last for a few seconds no more than 5 seconds, after that it will not move past 1500rpm!its like its stuck right there! and it keeps doing that!! as long i start up the car it goes all out after that bam slower than a turtle! but there is something i need to mention, the car got in to an accident so the abs sensor is on, airbag is on cause it got dyployed.. no check engine. any ideas? ive been very pissed about this car! |
either way I think ppl should do catch cans. my driver side catch can usually has a ounce of oil in every 1,000 miles and the passenger catch can usually has a .25 ounce of oil every 1000 miles.
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Took it to the dealer today to get the TB's cleaned. Dealer also mentioned theY dowloaded 2 updates to the ECU, one of them seems to be regarding this issue and the P0101 code that some get, including myself. ill get more details tomorrow when i go pick it up and let you all know :tup:
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Went early today to pick up my car but neither the service rep or mechanic was around. Ill have to call the dealer later for the details on the update they did to the ECU.
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