GTM Motorsports Oil Cooler
 

Just received the GTM oil cooler and it appears to be a very high quality product and at $380.00 which included the fittings and braded hoses, hard to loose on the deal. Nice stuff, well packaged, etc!

However.... there were no installation instructions with it so I called GTM to get a couple pointers or see if they had any instructions as I couldn't find any online. Much of it is self explanatory, but knowing where to bolt the oil radiator and route hoses was what I was looking for to save time. (the first one is always the hardest)

Really were not any help at all. Seems it's a more or less a universal system evidently with a filter adapter specific to the 370Z. The individual whom I talked with told me to go to their website and look at cars they had done but there were no pictures specifically showing the oil cooler.

Called "racers net" and I'll figure it out by playing with it. More or less giving out a heads up for other potential purchasers and also wondering if anyone has done an actual instillation of a GTM oil cooling unit, how they did it or if they had any words of wisdom.

Any and all help welcome, but might take a few pictures as I might end up being the guy writing the installation instructions.

How different can it be? Hit the DIY Oil cooler link in my sig...

Yea - should be the same - let me know how it works out - was thinking about purchasing it

Hell, I not only hit the link...printed it and read it twice. Very much in agreement and if it wasn't easier to place one order and really not that much more money, I would have gone your route.

Thanks!!

I only had to place one order for my modshack kit and it was only $271 for everything!

Glad I could help ....:tup:

Hear ya but this thing really is pretty with nice braded lines, nice universal mount, etc. Looks professionally done and not a bad way to spend money.

Problem is more than likely no one would notice the difference and I'm sure they are gonna work the same. The only issue I see is the lines are about four feet long and that probably is not an issue. Dunno until I get underneath.

It may be an issue....Mine measured out at 48" and 62" installed as you see them...

Thanks for the heads up on your experience with the Kit and with GTM so far. I am planning on doing an oil cooler early next year, in preparation for a track day or two, so I'm interested to see how you go with the GTM kit. I'll either go with the GTM kit or the "Modshack DIY Cooler".

Also, check out this thread: http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ll-review.html

Looks like the best way to install the GTM cooler is with the connectors facing upwards...

Boy, you talk about timely. Put on my game face, my "work on things" cloths and pulled the top radiator cover off. The light blulb went off and it came to me to check the forum one last time.

This is what I was looking for as the first time you do anything is always the hardest and obviously there are things to be learned and mistakes made. This I appreciate! Thank you Sir!

Even though I feel dumb that I didn't do a search earlier.

Your welcome! Just let us know how you go with your install, so I can be prepared when I do mine next year... :D

One good deed deserves another.

The truth is it was easier than I expected. The hard part far and away was figuring out cooler placement and how to route the lines. Everything else is a piece of cake and Nissan even kindly has predrilled holes to mount the cooler. Once you finally figure out how to use them that is. Must have spent at least an hour just playing with placements.

Seems everyone is routing through the passenger's side which makes sense as the oil filter on located on that side. After viewing the pictures and doing a few mock trials, I just couldn't quite figure out how to make it work. Being I never could follow directions, tried reversing the hoses and oil radiator placement. This worked best for me.

#1 There are already predrilled holes. Just added a couple of the body bolt tabs.

Preexisting holes with tabs picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

#2 Drilled an hole on the opposite side to route the hoses. Just wasn't happy having to drill a bunch of large holes in the car and this is the only one you need.

Hole drilled for oil lines picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

#3 Oil lines going the opposite direction with plenty of clearance.

Oil line routing picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

#4 Oil radiator mounted. Really would have like to have the hoses on the bottom. Just couldn't figure out how to drill holes in the inside of the bumper frame to do it.

Cooler Placement picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

#5 The last step was adding the supplied mounting brackets and making sure everything was neat and no rub or clearance issues.

Snugging things up to make sure everything clears picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

Seriously...... easier than I expected and oil temps in normal driving are around 200 degrees. Only drilled two holes: One for the two oil lines and one to mount a bracket for the lines. Highly recommend the $380.00 kit as it actually appears easier than other ones currently available for the car. The only extra things you need are two body bolt tabs, two bolts and some nylon ties. Ahhh.... Again,how much again does the Nissan one cost?

Just a heads up and forgot to mention this.........

The car now holds about six and a half quarts of oil. Had to go buy another quart as I only bought six thinking it would be enough.

Wish I saw this thread earlier....I might of been one of the first to have their cooler. The thermostatic adapter really is a must (i think) and it does such a great job at keeping temps down.

...I had to do the same thing when I put new oil in. Your right, 6-6.5 quarts now.

[QUOTE=DannyGT;193523]thermostatic adapter really is a must (i think) and it does such a great job at keeping temps down.

QUOTE]

Thinking you might be right of the thermostat adapter. Even though this is Dallas TX, we on occasion can get a bit of cold weather (in the teens on rare occasions) and I'll probably pick one up. In the meantime, I'm paying close attention to see how it works and if I really do need one.

[QUOTE=Denny McLain;194077]The GTM description says it has a thermostatic plate...The only kit on the market that seems to....You should be covered!

[QUOTE=Modshack;194101]I didn't notice that. Thanks! Makes the kit even more attractive. Maybe it's me, but it really does appear to warm up slower. That's why I was thinking it didn't have one.

Now we need something to keep the water temps in check.

Thanks for the review! Very usefull. Looking at your review, Rackleys GTM cooler DIY and Modshacks DIY, made me think about doing one sooner rather then later. The only thing that worried me about the GTM kit is the 45 degree connectors. I want to install the cooler with the connectors facing downward. But as you can see in Rackley' DIY, this will lead to the oil lines sticking out from underneath the bumper.

So I contacted GTM to see if they can supply the oil lines with 90 degree connecters instead of 45 degree ones and they can! I actually got a call from GTM in about 5 minutes after I sent an e-mail. They confirmed that for the oil cooler kit for the 370Z, they will include 90 degree connectors (at on one side of the oil lines, other will remain 45 degrees). So I guess I'll be placing an order at GTM soon...

Maybe you can get some replacement connectors from them as well? (in case you want to change to downward facing connectors)

Here's how the thermo plate works:

The Mocal plate constantly bleeds some oil to the cooler without fully opening, even when cold. This is why the cooler feels hot well before the oil gets up to full temp and, what you would assume to be, the opening at 180 degrees...This helps Avoid thermal shock and potential failure as a result, to either the engine or cooler. The temp is gradually ramped up at the cooler.

As the oil comes up to temp and exceeds the 180 set point the Thermostat opens all the way and circulates at full volume.

On the water temps, don't worry about that. This car runs surprisingly cool in that area. Generally 182 degrees at cruise, occasionally popping up to 200-210 in traffic. Many modern engines run much hotter than this....:tup:

Mine came with one side 45 degrees and the other side 90 degrees. Should have mentioned it but frankly forgot.

Also......your welcome.

Thanks for the information. Very informative and useful .

Water Temps......... The first time I dynoed my 370Z it sat 30-45 minutes with the hood closed going on the dyno. After the first pull it sat 30 minutes with the hood open and a fan on it. It gained 10 hp on the second pass. My opinion at the time was that it was heat soak which is common on numerous cars. The SVO Mustang is famous for losing as much as 60 hp when they get hot vs cold. The opposite is LSx engines which usually make the best hp on the third pull and don't seem to mind running a little hotter.

After getting the Cobb AccessPort and logging my timing, I've noticed the car pulls more timing out when it get hotter. Logged two runs with one at 184 water temp and the other after a couple of passes @ 207 degree water temps. The car pulled out 2 degrees of timing.

Now I'm not so sure about my original assumption of heat soak as reduced timing certainly will kill hp but there is a definite 370Z horsepower loss association with heat. The reason for the oil cooler for me was frankly to see if the oil temps were a factor. I'll repeat the logging and add the oil temps into the formula to see what the timing does.

My current feeling is the cars will make more usable power if they run cooler. If you read David Vissards book, he notes that small block Chevy's sweat spot for hp is 170 degree water temps. Hotter factory temps are usually done for emmissions and engine longevity.

I'm sure sooner or later someone will come out with a thermostat and I'll do my thing logging the timing to see what it does and also more dyno time.

There is a timing pull and you'll naturally heat soak sitting on a dyno table...
It's not necessarily water related though. Your fans trigger at 212 dgrees and shut off at 202 so this is relatively well conrolled when sitting. On the road,temps will run around 182. Most of it (timing pull) is coming from elevated IAT (intake air) temps. I monitor both IAT's and water temps full time on my Scangauge. I've also posted graphs here showing the timing pull on Corvettes when the IAT's elevate. It's much more significant with IAT's compared to water temps. It's not unusual to see IAT's go as high as 150 degrees on the 370 when heat soaking. As close to ambient is where you want to be, which is why the injen and stillen G3 work as well as they do...They pull air from outside the engine bay. The stock system does too for that matter. None of this design is very effective on a dyno as ther's just not enough air flow. This is one reason I designed the Fang vent system to get cool air to the intake. My temps run only 5-10 degrees over ambient when rolling for minimal timing changes. Stop in traffic and the IAT's elevate pretty quickly which is why the car feels sluggish in these condidtions. Mine will come back down virtually immediately as soon as cool air starts getting fed to the intakes. IAT's are genrated at the MAF just upstream of the airbox.
Cooler is always better, but a cooler Water temp won't necessarlily change the IAT problem which IMO is the area that needs to be addressed..
I've played with this on both my previous Corvette and Audi TT and designed systems and insulated airboxes to address it. Finding ways to reduce IAT's worked nicely on both as it has on my 370..

One question I do have about your install, it's not clear to
me why you didn't install the cooler with the hoses on the bottom? You said you don't want to drill holes in the bumper frame, but why would you have to?

And to Modshack: thank you for the insightful info on the IAT's!

Think we have a fair amount of parallel thinking going on here. Here is how I lowered the intake temps on my Corvette. Ram Air intake with a sheet metal intake.

Ram Air Intake picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

Sheet Metal Intake picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

This is what I've done so far to lower them on the 370:

Heat Barrier on Gen 3 intake picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

Heat barrier in engine bay picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

Basically two layers of thermal barrier wrap with four layers over the MAF sensors in addition to cutting a center hole in the Styrofoam bumper to see if that would deliver more air to the K+N filters.

Looks Ghetto but like you, I've been monitoring my intake temps and yesterday when starting the car cold in 80 degree ambient weather and just driving, the intake temps were 8 degrees over ambient going down to six degrees when the throttle was applied. Really just now trying to get down to the nitty gritty to figure out what the cars like and don't like. Going to monitor water temps, oil temps and intake temps to see if I could figure some consistency.

Bought the tubing to duct air better to the filters and tried to do it Thursday, but just wasn't happy with the routing and securing it when putting the front fascia back on the car. Was in bed this morning thinking about ways to do a true ram air system for the car. I'll keep playing with it to see what happens.

Big believer in dyno time and also a big believer in what I would call "pragmatic power" which doesn't necessarily show on the dyno. Usually dyno pulls are made under the best condition possible which isn't what you encounter in every day driving.

For every 1 degree of air intake reduction you gain 1 percent in hp and if you can lower that during real world driving, you struck oil in my opinion.

Nice thinking and nice work!

Basically because I'm not smart enough to figure out how to do it. If you use the existing holes the oil fittings would hang too low. The ideal would be to drill new holes in the bumper frame on the inside and hang the cooler downward. Problem is no room to drill the holes.

Maybe a 90 degree drill would work but I was fresh out of them when I did it.

Thanks...:tup:...Yeah, I think we are both thinking the same things here..

I'm also thinking, given the extent of your G3 insulation effort and resultant temps, that it won't get much better than that. I'm seeing the same numbers with my insulated intake and vent system. While I may be able to improve it slightly by sealing the box to the front radiator brace it may not be worth the effort. My silicone tubing is probably more resistant to heat pick-up than the stillen aluminum which helps too.

On neatening up the Forced air, I'm guessing you saw my DIY on that:
http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ur-airbox.html

We had also explored the G3 venting on another thread somewhere, and I think a Vette-air scoop mounted below the aluminum impact bar could be effectively used to get air to those boxes..

http://images26.fotki.com/v957/photo...MG_1560-vi.jpg

Keep on working on it....We'll get this figured out yet!

http://images32.fotki.com/v1046/phot...MG_1850-vi.jpg

Ah, I get it, the bracket is too small, making the cooler sit too low. Thanks again for the feedback!

[QUOTE=Modshack;195583]Thanks...:tup:...Yeah, I think we are both thinking the same things here..

I'm also thinking, given the extent of your G3 insulation effort and resultant temps, that it won't get much better than that. I'm seeing the same numbers with my insulated intake and vent system. While I may be able to improve it slightly by sealing the box to the front radiator brace it may not be worth the effort. My silicone tubing is probably more resistant to heat pick-up than the stillen aluminum which helps too.

On neatening up the Forced air, I'm guessing you saw my DIY on that:

We had also explored the G3 venting on another thread somewhere, and I think a Vette-air scoop mounted below the aluminum impact bar could be effectively used to get air to those boxes..

QUOTE]

Again, we are thinking the same and my feeling is 6 degrees ain't that much and maybe it ain't so broken after all. Was also thinking about a C5 or C6 type scoop and ways to seal off the filters from radiator heat.

No I didn't see the post and will read it closely, but I will say one thing ....Your intake looks a hell of a lot better than mine. You can take me out of the Ghetto, but guess you can't take the Ghetto out of me.

Just reviewed my last log session in which I made (4) 0-80 mph passes in a row and the water temps were between 205 and 210 and there was basically no change in timing from any of the runs. No intake or oil temps logged so I'll replicate it playing with cooling the intake temps and oil temps down compared with hot.

You may be right regarding the trigger that shuts down timing may be intake temps or 5 degrees of variance just doesn't make much a difference. Now I did see -2 degrees logging a 184 degree run vs 206 degree run but that may be coincidence as I'm sure the intake/oil temps were also different.

Your welcome. If someone where to replicate how I mounted the oil cooler I seriously doubt it would take over an hour to do it once the car is jacked up, the front and dust cover removed.

Just drain the oil, remove the filter, drill a 1.5 inch hole, run the lines through, connect the filter adapter, connect the lines, snap on the bolt clips, put the bracket on the radiator, connect the lines to the oil radiator, bolt the radiator in place, neaten everything up drilling one hole for the clamps and a few plastic ties. Your done.

Pretty damn simple after you've done one and no way in the world would you need to spend more money as your not going to get anything that works better or is easier to do.

Yeah....Hard to tell what the trigger is on the Nissan ECU. On the Vette (LS3) it's easy to see (and also easy to change the values with software like HP tuners). As I recall from my Vette logs there was no Water temp related timing pull until temps exceeded 235 or so....

On my Fang vents, it should be easy to route the hoses to the G3 filters instead of into the Radiator brace as i did...

As you can see from this chart, there is no reference or scaling to ambient, so over 86 degrees IAT you're hosed no matter what unless you make a software change. I recall I had shifted the table a column to the right...(time to move north!)
IAT temps and timing pull:
http://images38.fotki.com/v1212/phot...586/iat-vi.jpg

[QUOTE=Modshack;195627]Yeah....Hard to tell what the trigger is on the Nissan ECU. On the Vette (LS3) it's easy to see (and also easy to change the values with software like HP tuners). As I recall from my Vette logs there was no Water temp related timing pull until temps exceeded 235 or so....
QUOTE]

Both Lt1.edit and HP Tuners (Expecially HP Tuners) is light years ahead of what Cobb is ofering in capability to get into the computer. Was pretty shocked when I couldn't find something as simple as anything to effect the onset of fans. At least for the most part the oil cooler should take oil temps out of the equation.

Hopefully the capabilities wil change, but for my C4 there are water temp tables you can play with that for sure enrichens the fuel and would have to look if there are tables that effect timing. Think so.

It's a moot point but my problem is I changed out computers and need to reload the tuning software to take a peek at all it really does.

Understand...When I saw how limited the Cobb was I decided that was $6-700 I didn't need to spend...at least now.

I've been tuning my A/F ratios with changes in my MAF tube diameters. I think I have it pretty much set now...Long term fuel trims are still at "0" correction after almost 200 miles..;)

http://images49.fotki.com/v1521/phot...MG_1867-vi.jpg

[QUOTE=Modshack;195852]Understand...When I saw how limited the Cobb was I decided that was $6-700 I didn't need to spend...at least now.

I've been tuning my A/F ratios with changes in my MAF tube diameters. I think I have it pretty much set now...Long term fuel trims are still at "0" correction after almost 200 miles..;)
QUOTE]

Very interesting concept however an issue I see is the factory fuel curve is not linear. The same progression on every wideband readout I've seen. The cars are leaner at lower rpm getting progressively richer at higher rpm's.

Mine's pulling out additional timing beginning right at 5000 rpm (as low as 17 and 18 degrees timing) which is killing the torque peak. In looking at the dyno wideband readouts, Cobbs AFR readouts (which aren't accurate btw), discussing this with Calvin At Cobb whom originally tuned the car, it appears the car might be a little lean under 5000 rpm which may be causing it to pull timing. It also might be the temps? Added fuel under 5000 and pulled some over 7000. (which shows 25-27 degrees of timing depending upon the temps) To do true fine tuning, you need to get into the MAF tables and hone on specific rpm's with the Cobb software as the fuel tables are pretty course.

Biggest tuning issue and something I've never run into is when you make changes to AFR, you see it on the 02 readouts, but the car does not immediately respond on the dyno. This is a tremendous source of frustration as it's a place I've never been before, don't know why or what to do about it.

Doesn't seem to be an issue. At WOT (open loop) the fueling is all handled by built in Maps and not the MAF and O2 anyway. Since every plot I've seen here even with mods seems to be a bit rich, more air from the slightly larger MAF (2.41"ID up from 2.33"ID) simply creates a parallel A/F plot slightly leaner. The car runs like a bear under all conditions though i will do a Dyno at some point to confirm..BTW, I suspect this is one of the factors that accounts for some CAI's making the power gains they are..

I've been building larger MAF tubes for Audi Turbo's for 7-8 years now and tuning to long term trims. 400 out there and we haven't blown one up yet!

Prior to the Mods the Long term trims would show a -15% correction (rich). Going to WOT these corrections are added to the built in maps resulting in a relatively fat A/F which the plots I've seen verify. Starting with Zero correction, the WOT maps are not modified from their original tune, car runs a bit leaner, and makes more power. Works for me anyway..:tup:

Works for everybody. Adding high flow cats leaned mine some also.

Again, something I've not played with as I've gotten away from ported or Billet MAF's after finding out most of the local tuners preferred the stock MAF's. Certainly something to digest and think about.

Speaking of something to think about and digesting.... Yesterday again checked intake temps on pretty much a standard stop and go route (to my health club to workout) taking the back way to avoid as much traffic as possible. About four or five lights, depends upon luck on how you hit them, however with a few stop signs in the interim. Key is standard route.

The intake temps basically ran 12 degrees over ambient going down to about 10 during open throttle in 72 degree ambient and some light rain. This was 4 degrees hotter than the day before. Same route, slightly different conditions.????

OK....rainy days, Sundays, and high temps gets me down.

Air dirverter picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

Small air diverter pop-riveted to underneath bumper. (Way to small, just trying be conservative)

Sections removed from bumper picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

Removed bumper and removed two 2.5" thick sections directly below the filters.

3/4" of opening removed picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

Removed 3/4" of the rear area of the openings creating a gap. (top three middle sections of the front facade)

Open front access to filters picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

A good two inch thick and six inch wide straight shot to the filters so they don't have to pull air from behind and the fans pull air to them.

Who would know? picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

Looks untouched. What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas and now you know how the magic trick is done.


Same route, same conditions as yesterday: The car drove 7 degrees over ambient going down to 4-5 degrees during open throttle. 20 minute drive to health club, 187 water temps and let the car idle for 3-4 minutes. The most it got up to was 93 degree intake temp or 21 over ambient.

On the way home after a 45-50 minute workout: 93 degree initial intake temp, went down to 82 driving temp within a mile and 80 WOT. Went to 8 and 6 over by the time I made it home with hot engine.

Simpler for me than routing tubing and seems to help some. Next move is a larger air diverter and isolating the rear of the filters some from the radiator.

Seems to take a while to clear a hot engine bay...One trick you may try is to pop the rubber seals off the back of the engine compartment where the plastic seals to the hood. The long one to the rear and the two shorter ones just forward of that. This encourages air flow through the back of the engine compartment (high pressure area at the base of the windshield). Remove the plastic part at the strut brace triangle for even more flow (2 push pins and it snaps out). I've datalogged this on other cars and found an 18 degree reduction in engine compartment temps (on a turbo). It's a cheap and easy cooling trick...

Just an FYI but the Fang Vents to the G3 work very well. Small bracket holding internal flange in place to point at filter.

Have you logged your temps to see if there is a reduction?

More parallel thinking. Been eyeing at that area also and internalizing on what to do.

You've basically answered a question I've had and a thought process which dates back to the muscle car "cowl" inductions that used that high pressure area for induction. How to affect engine bay temps w/o putting non-stock looking vents in the hood? Couldn't figure out if it would pull or push air and what effect it would have.

Quite a few years ago Corky Bell did a Turbo Supra for me so I had the opportunity to follow one of their turbo projects pretty closely. Todd Gartshaw (current director of marketing for Barer Breaks) worked at the shop at the time and owned a Turbo Mustang that was being prepared for a Motor Trend 200 mph article. They did everything in the world to try and get the car to go 200 mph and what did the trick was underbody panels which smoothed out the belly aerodynamics.

Not that I'll be doing 200 mph any time soon. That being said, wonder if the air coming in from the top moving underneath would affect high speed stability.

My Testing if interested: VTDA Temp analysis including feed and Gasket effects...(Lotsa charts!)..> - AudiWorld Forums
Blue line is with the gasket removed on an Audi TT


http://images20.fotki.com/v355/photo...comparo-vi.jpg