Is my oil cooler overkill for the street?
 

So I recently had my Z1 19-row cooler installed and it includes the Sandwich Plate. It's taking around 20 minutes for the temp to get up to 180 degrees in 80 degree weather. Once it gets there it's stable at about 190 degrees. Considering I shouldn't romp on the car until it gets to at least 180 degrees, it kinda sucks it's taking so long to reach this minimum temp. How long is it taking the rest of you guys to hit 180 with a similar setup as me? Should it be taking this long considering I have a sandwich plate?

Well I would think that the oil cooler would never be an over kill do to its benefits. But I go off the temp on the left (dots) and not off the 180 on the gauge before I get on it. As soon as the dots hit midpoint she’s warm. But I have never put to and to together to see where the oil temp is on the gauge when the dots on the left hit midpoint.

The dots are water temp, not oil. Water heats up much faster than oil. You're beating on the car with cold oil.

OP, you mean a thermostatic sandwich plate, or just a normal sandwich plate?

Well its true what they say. You learn something new every day. :tup: Is that what people recommend 180 before getting on it? And when I say get on it I’m not saying red line, tach flashing. Just a decent higher rpm.

I don't go over ~3k rpm until oil temp is over 180.

I have the thermostatic. Doesn't 20 minutes seem awfully long to reach 180 during 80 degree weather?

Per a good Ferrari mech of mine - You need a few miles/kilometers not only to warm the oil but also the gearbox and differential. Its a package deal. The water temp is not an indicator of the drive-train itself being warm and ready for real use. Chucks advice is great as well as far as rev's go.

How long did it take to warm up before you installed the cooler?

I ran an errand a few minutes ago and it took almost 5 minutes to go from 140 (had driven the car earlier today) to 180. Assuming my car is normal, I'd say you're doing well.

Yes, your engine (and rest of the drivetrain) will last longer if you wait for everything to come up to temp but don't be afraid to give it a good romp when it's at 160. You may take 10 miles off the life of a 100k+ engine every time you do it. Just don't do it all the time or for very long.

It seems a little long. With my 34 row, I'm at 180 degrees in 4 miles (5-10 min) at about the same ambient temp in the morning. Granted, I'm not NA so there's a bit of apples-to-oranges going on.

It seems odd, since a very small portion of your oil is going through the core when the thermostat is closed. With the thermostat closed, you should warm up in close to the same time as stock. Is there the chance that you were accidentally sent the non-thermostatic plate?

Honestly I never really payed too much attention to how long it took to warm up before the cooler, I just payed attention when it would get to the 220 temp area. I also never use to pay attention to my oil temp gauge before romping on it, only the water temp gauge. After I had my cooler installed I become much more aware that waiting for oil to reach optimum temp is important before letting her rip. It's going to really suck having to wait about 20 minutes during a hot day to get on it, I can't even imagine how long I'll have to wait during a colder day?

I mean there's always a chance of anything, but the likely hood is very slim I would say. I'm not exactly sure how long it took to get to 180 before the cooler, but I'm assuming it didn't take this long? Plus if I didn't have the thermostatic plate, wouldn't by oil temp normally be really low, rather than becoming stable at around 190ish during normal driving?

It would still get up to temp, it would just take a really long time since all of the oil is flowing through the core. The thermostat should be preventing that, as it only allows a small amount of flow through the cooler until the oil hits 180 or so and the thermostat is fully open.

You're going to need to install a block off plate in the winter if you're at 190 degrees after the cooler in the summer. Overcooling the oil is almost just as bad as overheating it. There's a DIY here on how to make your own block off plate.

Isn't the Z1 thermostatic plate supposed to take care of that so I wouldn't need a block off plate? I'm planning on storing the car come winter time.

It should, but I'm no expert in cold temperatures. I'm in Houston. Cold is 40 degrees.

20 mins seems awfully long. I have a 25 row and it takes about 4-5 miles of easy driving (RPM < 3000) to get it up to 180 in 75 degree weather. What kind of driving are you doing in those 20 mins?

Same kind of driving. I don't know what the deal is, I bought the kit that came with the thermostatic sandwich plate and my installer verified it was installed. Maybe it isn't functioning properly or it was mis-installed? I'll have to call up the installer and find out whats going on.

Edit: I would like to point out that I've really only traveled about 5-6 miles in that 20 minutes.

:iagree: Seems aweful long. But then again I am more than happy to replace an engine after 10 years of romping on her out of the driveway so maybe it just seems long to me.

Maybe we're too hung up on the time when we should be looking more at distance, because your mileage is close to mine but the time is twice as long. If you're sitting in traffic not moving with the car idling, oil temp is going to take a while to come up.

And maybe the actual time was more like 10-15 minutes. I just drove from work for lunch, temp is about 92 degrees outside and it took almost 4 miles to hit 180 degree oil temp

That's not too far off then. I'm at operating temps in 4ish miles, and that's between 5-10 min depending on how many lights I hit.

Very good point.

OP if things are working correctly, and Chuck makes a great point, the cooler is a very small investment for the day you really need it. It is 92 here today and without a cooler my oil was 240 cruising at 85 for 15 miles. Last night I was having a bit, a BIT, of fun and it was almost 250. As a result I change my oil often even for full syn...you pay one way or the other.

Is there any easy way just to verify my thermostatic sandwich plate is operating the way it should?

that sounds like my morning commute. and for me the oil still isnt warm as i pull into work.

so i think you are fine with your oil cooler.

You might consider the 200 degree thermostatic plate from Mocal. I have one, though I haven't installed it yet. The 180 degree thermostat begins opening around 170 F and the 200 degree thermostat begins opening around 190 F according to the guys at BAT Inc. (Mocal distributers).

Part number: MOC-SP1FT-HT

Link to racepartswholesale.com

Or call BAT Inc. and place your order over the phone to save a few bucks

I have which ever thermostatic temp this kit came with, doesn't tell you in the ad so not sure?
Z1 Motorsports 370Z/G37 Oil Cooler Kit

Dial 770-838-7777 or e-mail parts@z1motorsports.com and ask 'em.

I am almost positive that the Mocal thermostatic sandwich plates are not capable of 100% bypass. Its been several years since I played with one, so I cannot remember. But I could swear that they never completely bypass the oil cooler, just some. Might want to look into that.

As for your warmup time/distance, sounds normal to me. Waiting until the oil temps hit 180 to beat on it? Not me, no way no how. I wont go full-power power-shifting drag runs until 140 degrees on the oil. But once the oil temp gauge has started to move, I pretty much drive how I drive.

are you driving on the freeway the whole time? if you're getting a lot of air flow it's possible to take that long. if i'm on the freeway at night, sometimes I can't get above 170 lol

think with thermostatic plates the oil chooses the path of least resistance so it's never fully blocked off per say.

ya thats what im saying.. so if the thermostat isnt fully closed then its not 100% bypassing. but at temp, it better not bypass at all or i wouldnt want it.

So the vast majority of cars dont even have oil temp gauges, if going high revs in a car below 180 degrees oil temp is so detrimental to a engine, woulnt you think more cars would have oil temp gauges? Most people romp on their cars w/o having a clue what their oil temp is simply because they dont have gauges. I've always based when i should start beating on the car by its water temp, the z is the first car ive had with a oil temp gauge, and im pretty sure the main reason they put one in it is because they decided to skimp on a oil cooler.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I agree. I mean really, whos engines are wearing out bearings etc, or anything related to oil type/temp/ etc?

Nobody. I see engines that blow up on people from bad tuning, too much power for their components, blown headgaskets, or incorrect assembly.

But I NEVER see anyone whos engines just "wore out" early cause they used crappy oil, or didnt let their oil get to 180 degrees before racing.

Even when the valve is completely open, you will not get 100% flow through the cooler unless there is a second valve to close off the internal passage in the adapter. The resistance to flow of the cooler piping and coil will force some of the oil through the "cold passage" of the adapter unless that passage is blocked.

I completely agree with this, I just let everything warm up fully out of habit and OCD. All it means to me is I don't put my foot in it until I get to the freeway on my morning commute.

Oil temp gauge is not really needed for a DD. Other params will usually be out of whack if the oil temp is high. It is nice to have in a sports car where the driver is at least mildly interested in keeping everything running as it should. I haven't seen many track cars w/o it.

The oil temp is only used as an indirect indicator that the engine block and bearings are up to normal operating temp. It is a MUCH better indicator than water temp but not perfect.

You are not going to do that much damage if you romp on it hard at 140 or so, but it will take some life off the engine. But then, WOT at normal temp will shave a bit off, too. If you torque the engine much below that temp, bearing clearances may not be correct and the oil may be too thin. (Edit: "thin" should be "thick") If you do it with a cold engine, you run the risk (small nowadays) of bearing damage.

Yes, you can push the engine before it gets up to temp, but I advise that you only do that when necessary. Run the hell out of it but don't abuse it.

maybe, maybe not. depends on the internal design, and i havent looked at one in years.

it wouldnt take a second valve. its a single 1 way valve, and it will close or open as much as it was built to. I am pretty sure they will go full flow through the oil cooler, but will not bypass it 100%. But nobody can argue this without having one in their hand.

They advertise that it "regulates oil flow to the cooler until 180 degrees" which would imply that it would only allow bypass until operating temp. This sounds correct to me. The 1 way valve is closed at 180+ for full flow to the cooler, and opens to allows a pressure leak around the cooler below 180. To allow the valve to be open at all once operating temp is achieved would be a very significant engineering flaw and I cannot imagine they would either bother producing it like that... nobody wants to bypass their oil cooler once operating temp is reached.

Apparently I don't understand how the bypass works. All industrial systems I've worked on would open the valve going to the cooler when temp rose and there would still be some flow through the bypass unit. What you are describing has the cooler lines open all the time and the bypass closing the "main" galley to force oil through the cooler. If you are right about that, then you are right about the rest.

I am pretty sure that's how it works! Of course, since its thermostatic, it should in theory be opening/closing as required to "regulate" oil temperature at 180 degrees, at least to the best of the oil cooler's ability. I just do believe, or want to believe, that it is capable of completely closing the bypass. Next time I change my oil, perhaps I will pop it off and have a look-see.

viscosity is higher at 140 than 180 so it being thinner couldn't be a reason for bearing damage. ???

i usually wait for oil temps to be at least 160F so it is at operating temps before i start pounding on it
check your oil though and see what the operating temps are and just wait till you're past that temp
what oil do you run?
afaik M1 0w40 operating temp is 160F, is it bad to pound on a car with oil that just got up to temp?