Main things you are e85, injectors, fuel pump, 2 tunes
You will need to run 2 tunes, one specific for e85 and one for your regular pump gas, mixing is not something that can occur currently.

So I just bought my 370z. Its 2014 manual.
I live in nor Kali and we do have some e85 station around here.
So my question is what is the cost to covert it to e85?
Is it OK to switch from regular fuel to e85 or vis versa?
From reading the comments it seems u need to replace the fuel pump, injectors and fuel lines.
What brand and type do u guys recommend?
Also how much HP would u gain doing this conversion?

Also if u do switch from reg.fuel to e85 or vis versa, can the check engine light come on because of the switching fuel between the 2?

I don't plan on mixing it. I meant to say if ur low on fuel and there is no e85 pump stations then obviously I would have to put in reg prem. Fuel.
Have u done this conversion?

My buddy had this done to his gtr.
He said it would cost about 1k to do it.

for na 370z e85 you won't need more than 600cc injectors and a 255, our fuel line material (nylon) is adequate for e85. the rubber hose of old is not. when installing the 255 make sure the hose used to run from the pump to the the filter is rated sae30r10 then you will need uprev setup with a gas tune and an e85 tune on a naturally aspirated car make sure the e85 percentage used while tuning is close to that used when filling IE before tuning run the car down to 1 or 2 lights on the gauge and fill with e85 do this same procedure every time you fill the car with e85. easy

Why is mixing not an option? I've mixed in previous cars and had no issues.

there is no e85 sensor on the 370z nor is there an ability to add one therefor mixing will make the car run lean or run with more detonation depending on which tune you have on and how off the percentage is.

What is an E85 sensor? I've never heard of such a thing. The O2 sensor will read a lean condition, but you just increase fueling. And with E85 you can run leaner, and still be relatively safe. When I tuned my MS3 for it's initial "E blend" of 25% E85/75% 91, I threw in the 25% and drove around normal for a couple days to get a baseline on the stock tune. Under WOT there was nothing implying any dangerous conditions. And this is on a boosted motor, mind you. And you would tune FOR the E85. not juust add it willy-nilly to any map.

Its a fuel alcohol sensor as an ms3 boy u should have just wired up a gm one, it measures the alchol content in the fuel and adjusts both the afr and timing based on that. Without one you are making a rough guess at the octane of the fuel in your tank, trying to ply catch up with the o2 sensors, and praying it doesnt knock. Then again u were only running 25% e85 and u were on an aftermarket ecu with much better closed loop adjustment and more accurate a/f sensors so nothing you learned on that platform is applicable to what the shitbox nissan stuck us with does when you vary the alcohol content in the tank.

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Boy? appreciate it. Just trying to get some constructive conversation going. There is going to be a fixed loss of AFR given a specific blend of Eth that you use. I've never heard of this sensor being used in any application that I've researched. I can see them using it in OE applications as they are going for reliability and the average joe not knowing their head from there foot.

You just account for that loss and adjust fueling from there. So with a little math and testing you can absolutely tune for it with no 'sensor'.

Plenty of people have tested E85 knock volatility up to 13/1 AFR on boosted applications with no knock or detonation that you speak of.

Plus this was done on an OE ECU using a flash just like any tune for the Z. Just modified fuel and timing tables plus some other in the weeds stuff. 02 sensors react at the same rate as they did before on 100% gasoline, you just tune in the 30% loss in flow due to the E85. It's the same as tuning for meth injection. You have a tune. you run meth. you find the baseline change, and tune for it.

As for praying about the octane content. as long as you fill up consistently with the same blend of E85, and your tune isn't trying to ride the bleeding edge of performance, it's less dangerous than tuning for 91/93, if you know what you are changing and why. You have the same chance of getting poor gasoline as poor E85.

http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...onal_gasoline/

This article is assuming 100% E85, thus all the references to changing fuel system components. I'm just using it for subjective purposes, being that I'm implying a blend of E85 and gasoline to make no changes to the fuel system.


I'm not trying to start a pissing match, just curious on the subject, and why this approach would or wouldn't work for our platform.

It seems like it would be a pain in the *** in the long run doing this conversion on the z.
I may not go this route. Plus with loss of mpg and I don't think u would get much of a boost in HP.

You can mix but mix with the gas light on. Then pic the map for which has more of that fuel in the tank when you fill up.

Not really. Run the tank till light comes on, go get gas, pic map for what ever fuel you end up getting. Pretty simple. I personally would run 93 till I need the power like at the track, drag, autoX. It may be ok but I still don't trust e85 and none e85 vehicles hoses and seals running 24/7.

E85 does cost more so for DD stick with 93. I still guess 10-15hp though.

Here in Kali we only have 91 octane ( highest. Then 89 & 87).

How come u don't trust e85? That's why I assume u would get the proper hoses, fuel injected and what ever else u would need

You don't need special injectors or pump?

You cant replace the cars hoses and all seals. You could but itd be custom and probably have to do a fuel cell. I'm fine with it for short periods, just wouldn't run year round. I also have a trust issue with it because its very poorly regulated. It swings from E70 to E85. If you tune and get a good batch you're going to have issues when you get a bad one. This is why flex fuel cars run ethanol sensors. If it sees e70 it pulls timing and such. Without that sensor the car could be iffy.

The "cost" factor is a tough one to say based on location.
It is all based on MPG loss and the cost difference between 91/93 & e85. If you have relatively cheap e85 and high cost for 93 then it could be cheaper & better performance to jump to e85 (especially with boost).

Also, you might want to talk to phunk about e85 & trust, running over 600whp with e85 for almost 50k (or more) miles with no issues.

There are couple gas stations, depending on what part of Fl you live in. I know of a couple of the tampa area. 2.99 a gallon for e85.

This is what I did with my mixture. Always wait until 1/4 tank, fill up the same ratio of E85 all the time basically.

And as far as the corrosiveness issue, a lot of people talk about it, but I've never heard one story fuel system taking a s*** on them. That is not to say it isn't corrosive, but I'm not sure that it has been mainstream long enough to really know the long term effects on someones fuel system...

From Race on E85

"Q: Don’t I have to replace all the “rubber” in my fuel system so it want be eaten up by the alcohol in E85?

A: NO!!! We started out on this journey with a complete gasoline system. We upped the flow 30% to compensate for the lower heat energy output of ethanol and left everything else the same just to see the effects. We switched to E85 at the end of the 2006 racing season and to date we have found zero deterioration or corrosion anywhere in our fuel system. We leave it in the system all the time. We don’t drain anything between races or use any type of fuel lube."

OK ms3 girl? haltech, aem, ecutek(just not our platform) all allow for the addition of a fuel alcohol sensor, because if you tune on e85 for the most power it is all about advancing the timing as far as you can due to the increased octane of the fuel, so if you tuned the car at 70% alcohol content but then ran only 20% alcohol content you WOULD have serious problems.

Ok after reading another one of your posts we mean two different things by mixing, you mean running a different percentage than 100 and i mean that you can't roll up to the pump with 3/4 of a tank of regular and top it off with e85 (unless that is how you did it every time) the other main issue is that if you mix from a 1/4 tank of gas and then fill it with e85(64% alcohol), if you go back to the pump next time and fill up with e85 you will be running a higher percentage (80% alcohol)

Or just keep coming across as condescending. Whatever.

That's great that you can tune for specific amounts of Eth with a sensor, but we're talking fixed amounts here. E85 has a fixed (relative) content of alcohol. I wouldn't recommend running it in the winter, as the Alcohol content is reduced for cold start purposes. The key is that you do not *NEED* a sensor. I'm specifically discussing a *PARTIAL* tank of E85 at summer blend ratios of ~83%. The content of 25% E85/75% 91 could be anywhere from 1.75-2.2 gallons on a 10 gallon tank if we account for the Alcohol content falling to 70%. thats 17.5-22% Ethanol content, and while that may seem like a large fluctuation, in the grand scheme of things the lower volatility of E85 still makes it safer than tuning with an also inexact Octane of 91.

Yes, comm breakdown possibly.

You would never truely fill up in the traditional sense. You would always just put in x amount of E85 and Y amount of gasoline. So say you fill up at a 1/4 tank every time, and always put in 2.5 gallons of E85 and 7.5 Gallons of Gas. Always keeping your ratio 25%, but never running the pump until auto shutoff.

Or make a mountain out of a mole hill.

I see where you are going with it now and at that low of a percentage I really don't think you are getting the real benefits of going through all the trouble of running e85, at best you would be sitting around 93 octane ish plus or minus a couple points, when full e85 is slightly over 100octane. On a turbo platform i could see it working ok, but full e85 is still going to make more, on an na car you would really want to take advantage of running an oxyfuel as much as possible by running a higher percentage.

If we could run a standalone on this car the fuel alcohol sensor would really shine, you can set them up to increase boost, fueling, and timing as the alcohol percentage goes up and that gives you a lot of versatility, it also accounts for cheap or oxy gas because most fuels now have 10% ethanol in them anyway, it lets you extract every last horsepower in the system under all fuel conditions.

I'm just pointing out the fact that you probably wouldn't roll up to someone you didn't know on the street or just met in general and call them "boy". Just didn't seem warranted. No worries though.


And, now that's getting to my question! I hate to ride the MS3, but through my experiences people on that platform really increase their timing. By as much as 5-6* advanced @ redline over similar 93 octane tunes. I know that with boost it's a different animal, and increasing timing along with boost is a 2 headed benefit.

At what point do we see diminishing returns on timing advance in regards to actual gains on this platform, and I'm curious to see how meth injection or E blends could help this.

Im interested in a blend, because ideally you wouldn't need to change much, if anything, in regards to fuel system.

It's not tough though. Doesn't matter where you live, e85 is never enough of a gap to make up for its mpg loss cost wise. Power wise, sure spend the extra specially with boost.

Good for him on longevity. I'd love to see the inside of everything also how many times he had to adjust the tune like for winter when it jumps to e70.

It maybe main stream and maybe the Z's lucky. Some manufactures though will 100% not have the right fuel lines and seals. Just depends what they wanted to install. Good for nissan if they went with the right stuff. But you still have to make sure the pump and injectors you go with can handle it because not all aftermarket stuff can.

I am na with a few special bolt on's and I am out of injector on 91. a 255 is an easy relatively cheap add on that settles the pump away and I am going to need bigger injectors anyway, so once i finish up with the cam and head gasket change I'm just going to throw in a surge pump with a 400lph pump in it (super overkill but I may add a small turbo) and some bigger injectors. The nylon/hard line on the z is fine for e85 it is the same stuff all the flex fuel vehicles use. There isn't much to change and the motor LOVES timing so from what I have seen there really is no point to not run full e85 (unless you are purely concerned with keeping fuel costs down lol)

Wow, I never would have guessed you would max out fuel on a 91 tune! welcome back to the port injection world for me lol.

Good info. appreciate it. :tup:

With the proper setup you can indeed bump na horsepower by 70-100 I'm up 65 from my baseline now and hoping to add another 20-40 to it.

Inspected everything at 3 years of continuous use, even occasionally letting the car sit for a month or two if winter got too nasty to drive it. Looked much cleaner in there than any car running regular ole gasoline (eww). Actually, most of the parts you wouldn't even know were used by looking inside them.

I never once a single time adjusted the tune for the varying levels of ethanol. In fact, I dont even pay attention to it or care. If youre worried about e70, you know whats worse? e10... now that is something I would never put into my car unless I was desperate. The varying levels of ethanol content seem to only be a problem for those with an ethanol content gauge. I have solved the concern by not having the gauge. (A few percent ethanol difference isnt going to make or break anything.. but it will bother you if you know)

Price difference compared to gasoline? I pay like $2.80 a gallon for it. Ya the gas mileage goes down a little bit but I have no idea what it feels like to care. :) I don't noticeably spend any more or less on gas from the e85... any excessive fuel burning I do I blame on the turbos.

U can get that much gain in HP for NA z engine using e85?

not just e85 there was a lot of other stuff involved, I'm hoping between the cams, the new fuel and playing with the exhaust setup and tune i will get the rest of it. I'm into 5 digit territory with this little experiment so we will see what happens.

What are you experimenting with?

Lots of stuff ;) mainly coke.

Do you have a build thread for all of this? I would LOVE to read it.

you seem to experiment a lot. I remember your plans for the vk56 :tiphat:

Yeah those are on the back burner for a while lol i will make a thread when i get closer to a final configuration, the problem is im never happy with it

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Edit: whenever i say im happy with the setup it means im out of money lol

Damn! And we're supposed to sit back and believe Z1 at 350hp with e85, so porting and special sauce? :icon14:

If they did i can't WAIT to get the e85 in her.

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O at 335 you didn't have all that? Nvm

Nah what i had at the time is in the spoiler, tune was just afr correction as well didnt really go after power.

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