Transmission Issue After Track Day
 

Well guys I just for done with a two day track weekend. Well on my last session of the day I was having problems with downshifting into third. It was grinding bad and would not go into gear. I would hold the clutch in threw the turn then reapply into third with better success. This happened a couple of laps.

Well when the run was over and I went to exit the course up the ramp in second gear it wouldn't go in. I had to stop. It would go into first this time. I had to slightly rev the motor and force it into gear. It hardly went in but got me back to the paddock. When there and stopped it wouldn't go into any gear at all. I tried every thing.

After letting it sit there for for five minutes it started to let some of the gears come back but hardly. Eventually with time the gears came back but not second. Second would go in hardly but when you released the clutch it would just grind and throw itself out. I decided I'd limp it home without second. On the way I got into some traffic and all the gears started to get a tad smoother. Even second. But still very much notchy. I did some downshifting and it doesn't play nice with doing that. Very notchy than standered shifting. Every gear is the same. Still notchy its like there something keeping it from sliding in. You can feel three different levels of resistance per each gear before it falls into place. I will be taking it to the dealer tomorrow. Also guys I don't have SRS and I had just put Redline fluid in it two weeks ago.

Clutch got a tad warm?

interested to hear what they say. Was this out at Road Atlanta?

Most likely boiled your clutch fluid. If it keeps acting up, bleed the lines...probably have some air bubbles.

Could also be clutch slip related, might have glazed the disk. Is it slipping?

Could be all the above. Clutch pedal feels great even now and then. The fluid seemed fine and wasn't boiling. I do have a SS line with Motul fluid also. The clutch isn't slipping at all. Seems perfect. Now the manual doesn't seem to want to move all the way over to even attempt to go in first and second. What is the shifter plate that I've heard people mention?

Chris,

you may need to pull the transmission and check the actual clutch plate... your still on the OEM clutch right? may want to go ahead and just upgrade to a new one.

Sorry to hear that. I wondered why you were leaving when I was coming back from the gas station. If your fluid was boiled, that would be easy enough to bleed and see if it still acts up. At that point, if it does, I would just pull the track numbers off and take it to the dealer.

If the dealer drops it I'm defiantly going to slap another in there. The clutch might be some issues but I feel theres something else that's the main culprit. We will see.

Im planning on taking it first thing in the morning. I'll see what they say before they get involved. I just looked at the fluid and it's green. Was red.

Course our clutch line runs right near our cats and or test pipes. I do have it wrapped though.

I know you will, but please do keep us updated. May help me decide on whether or not I chose to replace just the flywheel or do a bit more.

Also, how many miles are on your car? Just curious how much distance has been put on it.

If your going to do the flywheel I would do the clutch also.

My car has 8k miles on it. This was my third track day on it. But my first day wasn't as abusive as the last two days. But beside those days it hasn't been beat up on much.

A cheap way would be to start changing the transmission fluid...

Im going to wait till this weekend before I take the car in. I'm going to bleed the clutch and I have to remove my track numbers. It's been raining all day so I might as well wait. No big deal. Plus I want give my car an inspection being after a track day. I'm about to change all the fluids out. I'll keep you guys informed.

Watching for the outcome. goodluck spohn

Synchro's?

I was under the impression that if it were truly a synchro issue, you would find that the condition would not improve slightly like it did. I vote something to do with the clutch, flywheel or slave.

That is the odd thing that the condition got better. I checked the clutch fluid and it does smell slightly burnt. Been raining all day today so I can't do nothing. I'm going to at least bleed the clutch but I really feel that's not the problem. Reguardless it's going to the dealer this week. Every gear feels rough and requires a little force to place in gear. When the car is not running and you shift I here all sort of noises. Like a bunch of linkage problems. Not sure. Plus when not running it slides into gear without the clutch pressed in. It seems to go in gear easier without the clutch in. 1,2,5, and 6 seem to be the worse. Transmissions are my weak point so I don't know. It will all be fine though. Not to worried about.

My honest opinion is that if it is still not operating correctly then it is deffinatly not from the fluid. I would venture to say the CSC has a small crack and unable to hold pressure. If you overheat or glaze the clutch, your clutch pedal will have no pressure for a few seconds but will come back and you will have a nasty smell. Another would be the clutch itself is just worn out, the organic material is only so durable. Not having the SRM, you may have over worked it which isnt your fault like I said its not that durable and wears down and burns up faster then a metalic on top of the stock clutch being a single plate clutch. I would honestly say that if Nissan says anything about the CSC or clutch then upgrade both.

replace the clutch its getting weaker and is about to be gone completly. Drive it very nicely and just do the clutch/flywheel/CSC in one shot if you got the money or dont mind saving up a little.

nice user title :tup:

He didnt overwork it. He has a total of three days on track, and I instructed him on the first one. His heel toe skills are well above average for his experience level. I had no clutch issues until 17000 miles, about 8000 of those on track. Mine turned out to be the csc, but replaced the cl itch and flywheel to anyways.

To replace the CSC, you need to remove the bellhousing

Mike did you replace your CSC to an upgraded one or did Nissan replace it?

I boiled my oem clutch fluid on my 1st track day last month (pedal sticks to floor and eventually becomes unuseable, pedal travel is really reduced prior to this tho) so it doesnt sound like you have that issue. I immediately ordered some motul 600 and ran with that in there this last weekend. No issues whatsoever now on that front. The CSC issue sounds likely. Looks like we both developed issues over the weekend. Im getting grinding noises that i can also feel though the seat under hard cornering now...:ugh2:
Good luck man, keep us posted.

Edit: not to hijack you thread at all but if anyone has any ideas about mine id appreciate any input you have. To describe it more fully: Like I said, its a grinding feeling that i can also hear, about 10 minutes of lapping and it will go away until the next session. It initially only happened under extremely loaded cornering when i got on the power but developed to the point i could feel it for several seconds dollowing the corner after i had straighted out. I felt it on the freeway yesterday when i accellerated and hit a bump/depression in the road. Sounds/feels like metal on metal grinding, not screeching tho. Doesnt occur when both drive wheels spin from acceleration in a straight line or though a turn. I smacked my left rear tire into a curb pretty good a little while back and had to replace some of the suspension pieces on that corner. Thinking its possible that these are related, the sound does seem to be coming from that area but its hard to tell.

I don't know. Jon @z1 did it for me. I got an aftemarket flywheel, used like new clutch and I'm not sure about the csc. I didn't get a copy of the work order since we swapped for some powdercoat work

Ok. Jon is post to call me back today.

Yea I didn't have that issue. I did have Motul in with the added Z1 SS line. But either way the line is still close to my test pipes. Even though it's has a heat wrap on it I wonder if it needs note protection. Maybe wrapping my test pipes.to me it seems that reguardless of the high temp fluid that if it gets so hot it could still ruin the CSC. For our CSC are not the greatest. Now I'm hearing the aftermarket ones have fell also.

So tha being said I wonder if both our CSC's are half way from going out? We have abused them from the track. I just got done talking to Z1 about this and I think I'm just going to drop the tranny replace the CSC, clutch, flywheel and see where that leaves me. Don't really care to go to the dealer it it's nothing major. If this doesn't solve it then it will be on Nissan. I should have a better clutch reguardless. Thinking of getting a six puck clutch. I could do all the work myself but I'd rather see Z1 do it once then I know I can handle from there on.

Hmm, my issue seems to be in the rear / left rear rather than the clutch / tranny. Think I was kinda unclear. I was looking at that JWT clutch/flywheel combo tho, the price is definitely right. Based on stuff Travis has said in his posts it might be in my Z's future.

Yea I'm trying to see what the other track guys use before I make make up my mind.

Hmm, looked more extensively under the car today. Looks like the oil from the diff is leaking out around the driveshaft seal. Im going to assume this is because I overheated the oem seals. There is some oil sprayed on the metal parts/heatshield around the UV joint where the shaft meets the diff. Thats not cool. I hope that this is the actual issue tho, doesn't look like a whole lot. Ive got an appointment at the dealership tomorrow, we shall see. If my diff is fried I might just have to get a real one.

I got the ACT flywheel. I the video I linked, the 350z is running a JWT flywheel at about 14pounds, a little more then the clutchmaster. Below is some information and part of a conversation I had with Joe at Zspeedperformance about flywheel chatter if that is something your considering in your search:


"The TZR makes a little bit of noise down low in the RPM range due to the rigid disk regardless of the flywheel you put with it. A lighter flywheel will make even more noise/rattling of the trans gears.
If the noise is not an issue by all means go with the performance, no reason not to.


I have the DXD 28lbs, ACT steel streetlite 18lbs, Fidanza aluminum 15lbs, Clutch masters aluminum 13lbs, Competition steel 17.5 lbs flywheels in stock"
(Joe Allison Zspeed)




"Here is a link to the trans noise associated with the LW flywheels."
(Joe Allison Zspeed)


Flywheel Chatter - YouTube

Yea thanks. But noise/ chatter doesn't bother me none. I'm one of those guys. Lol.

I wasnt sure about it so I went with the ACT and will probably swap it out for the clutchmasters and go from there.

Do what he told me, go with the performance. Of course do the research and look at reviews first. :tup:

Well my rear diff is shot. Which im not upset about. A good excuse to get a better one. What im upset about is finding out for sure that i did warp my brand new rotors and it wasnt uneven glazing like I had hoped (aparently they are beyond repair/ machining ) Ididnt park with the brakes on or E brake went slowish on the cooldown laps...wtf, these werent cheap. DBA 5000 2 piece rotors. In a bad mood right now.

That sucks man. Rep to yea. My Z1 rotors held up great. can't wait to get my Stillen J hooks on.

^I had same problems with baer rotors drilled/slotted.

Do you know what actually failed on the diff?


For brakes, try and get some air on the. The calipers trap a lot of heat, and running lighter rotors is just going to encourage problems being generated as a result of that heat.

I asked the mechanic the same question while I demonstrated the problem to him (they couldn't reproduce it on their own, but with my own confident right foot I had little trouble). He mumbled something about the friction surfaces probably being worn away, which would seem to make sense. The oil level apparently was ok, didnt check it myself but thatd be a hard thing to measure wrong.

So rotors can get warped JUST from getting too hot? I thought it was only when not cooled down properly after sessions. And afaik these rotors are only a couple of pounds lighter as a result of their lighter center hats. So no real loss of heat absorbing mass.

I'm at a loss with the brake issue. As far as I know those rotors were (:shakes head:) pretty damn good... so what now? I buy a more expensive pair and kill them too? I cant afford that. Why is this such a big issue, I know for a fact there were plenty of cars out there with no brake ducting that were braking harder than me with no probs. I did deposit a not insignificant amount of brake pad onto the rotors in a somewhat uneven fashion i believe... could that have led to less cooling on the more covered parts of the rotors and hence a better pad would solve the problem? Was running Endless MX72 pads.

They quoted me about 500 bucks for the install on a new diff. Looking at the Quaife, maybe Carbonetics, couldnt care less about a clunk when it locks and takes only about 10 mins of work and 15 mins of waiting to swap out the fluid , cars are big mechanical beasts and make mechanical sounds, I like variety, tranny/diff whine (when not indicating a problem), SC whine, all great. But itl be a few weeks before I really have the money to get it ordered and installed if i go that route. By the way my car musta got hungry on the track because it ate a whole quart of its 5w30 Redline oil, which based on Redlines good NOACK rating really suprises me.


Any progress with your issue SPOHN?

sounds like they are just guessing. I'd love to see what actually failed. Perhaps post results of the failure analysis after you put the new diff on.
Yes, but I'm not sure you warped them...it is likely just bad wear patterns, even if your mechanic says otherwise. Did you bed your pads properly? And what street pads do you run?

Warping comes from uneven heat distribution. Keeping the brakes on while parked is one way to do it....but if there is a lot of heat in the caliper, it has the same effect. Luckily the beefy rotors on the Z are relatively difficult to warp.

I did bed the pads in on the way to the track the 1st morning... probably pissed off a few locals but the roads were empty at 530 am lol. Although I just did it by going from 60-10 about 7 times rapidly, not the reccommended 80-20 decel for 6 or so times.

Do you mean just the proximity of the hot caliper to the rotor when the car is stopped can do this, even without the brakes engaged?

Edit: yeah I'll prolly ask to take the old diff home so i can open it up to look and take pics before I toss it in the dumpster, if I do i can certainly post em.

...just keeping this thread warm for yah SPOHN, im no thread terrorist :tup:

Edit 2: If the rotors are suffering from uneven wear, is there a way i can tell this apart from warping without using a dial indicator setup? Will they get better or worse with time? The bedin/pad deposites seems to be pretty evenly spead out at this point, very little if any improvement in braking feel, car actually noticeably hesitates momentarily a couple times when braking just before coming to a stop from the uneven grabbing. MX72s are the only pads i own at this point and were reputedly a trackable street pad, tho im pretty sure I was using them harder than intended.

Rotors usually don't warp unless you absolutely murdered it. The vibration you feel is probably deposit. I think you didnt bed in the brakes properly. I didn't do it right on my XP8, I had to run the some XP10 and and XP12 to wear them off the rotor to get rid of the deposits.

1 quart a track day? Yikes...