Help don't want forced induction!!!!!
 

Hey guy I have question which has been disturbing me for the past 2 days. Since my Nismo Z is not arriving till July I have a lot time to plan. I don't want to do down the road of forced induction(any more), I was wondering if what I can do in terms of adding hp to the engine. I was thinking of remapping of the ecu, remapping of the management system(don't know if same as ecu), increasing displacement to 4.0L(custom,),light weight engine internals such as titanium(will have to be done custom) (pistons,piston rods,camshafts,etc.), high-flow exhaust, upgraded exhaust manifolds,,bigger oil cooler,radiator ,and custom heads. How much more hp do you guys thinks these mods will add? Is their anything else I can do or have named every single thing I can do to increase hp without going down the path of forced induction. Can you guys please tell me anything else I can do. It will very helpful with your guys suggestion.
Thanks,
Mjthind

You pretty much nailed all the mods to do without forced induction. How come you want to stay away from forced induction? With all the mods and work you listed it sounds like it would cost just as much if not more then FI and you'll easily put more power down going FI. Sounds like a great starting point for a fast car though.

Not to be a smartypants here but have you set down and added up the cost of all those modifications? They are going to cost quite a bit. You might simply consider a different car.

Well I did and it added to about 21 grand.

for 21 grand, you could go twin turbo, body kit, and a hot hooker. :tup:

Well I want to stay away form FI because I NEED drivability, reliability, hate turbo lag and want a high and fast revving engine. My uncle told the pro and cons of a FI and NA engine,then he said it my choice I chose NA. I was told by my friend that if I do all the stuff that I want to to do my engine (forgot to list light-weight flywheel) my engine will rev up and come down quicker and I would prefer natural power than FI any day and all any. Oh ya I want my life so f*ck FI.

I cant wait till you get your car:bowrofl:

why?

Its going to be awesome:ugh2:

Learn a little more, read around, because I'm convinced you're just listing things of which you have no clue what they are... :)

well you're right don't have a clue but my uncle know all kinds of NA power so he helpin me on this

You could have just bought a GT-R, but you probably already thought of that. How about an engine swap since your pretty much changing everything anyways. A V8 would make things interesting, but I don't think it will fit :) What hp number were you gunning for?

I would keep an eye for this thread for ideas.
http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-g...ismo-team.html

I think the only thing you didn't mention was weight reduction. i don't know how long ago it was and i forgot the name of the person who created it but there was a full body carbon fiber skyline in japan that was actually over 900lbs lighter than a it's stock version. would probably cost a lot but it seems that money isn't your problem here. that should help a lot with your NA project.

LS2 Swap.:driving: end thread:eek:

LS2? really thats sooo G-word. he said titanium rods and hew wants POWER on thing i can think of is LS7 or Viper V10. Also guy you need to ask your uncle why he didn't tell you about superchargers when you asked him N/a or FI. The centrifugals have come a long way from what they were a few years ago, and the twin-screw (look up kenne bell or whipple or vortech vts series) is still the screaming torque king. That will actually make the abysmally small lowend and midrange torque numbers look better while pulling up to redline and you won't be able to tell it apart from a BIG v8.

:iagree: I have a sneaking suspicion this thread isn't going anywhere anyway, if you really have the money to take on a project like this and are actually going to do it then I look forward to the results. But obviously this is the sort of thing that would only be done just so you can say you did it as it really won't improve the cars performance, not overall at least. I agree with getting as much power out of the engine as you can and the better it responds the better any other modifications should work, but your uncles knowledge sounds a bit suspect, or at least biased. I think a twin screw super charger would get you where you want to be, much more easily, and for much less money. There are no kits available though but if your really working with kind of budget mentioned then I'm sure you can make one work though and it will increase power across the board. Of course the motor build and the super charger would be the best thing :driving::happydance:

Anyway you said you don't want to sacrifice drivability, the fact is this will suffer regardless of how you choose to make power. If you get a 50% increase in power, it's still 50% whether that's from forced induction or naturally aspirated. The car will want to leap feet at a time now rather then just rolling to a start like it did, and the fact of the matter is no matter what you do it will still be a 370Z. You can make anything faster, but overcoming the chassis design and it's short commings are entirly different. There is a reason a Porsche with very similar specifications still cost almost twice as much. (besides the name on the back)
The most important thing to consider is what do you want this car for? Are you going to race it, what's the point if your not? A highly modified car will be difficult to get qualified and it will most certainly require a roll cage, although that will also help you quite a bit with the chassis problems you are sure to encounter. If it's just going to be for the street that won't matter as much, it will be fun at first but like so many people before you you'll likely get tired of it in short order. A car at that level will require constant attention to all the noises it will make, all the things there are to fail now, possibly even to just keep it on the road.

Overall you will spend much less money just buying something else ans may be more satisfied with it, but it will be one bad *** Z if you decide to do it. :tup: (once you work out all the bugs)

there really arent any driveability or reliability issues with the FI's on our cars..

some have been driving around for a year + at 450whp or more without issues.

but to each their own. gl with the build. will be interestin to see.

GTM S/C. No drivability issues.

:icon17:

lol. i like the last part of it

+1

don't want go corvette engine I can't stand those things. I want to keep the nissan block and I not a fan of turbocharging unless you take to my bros supra I would turbocharge that thing all day man. I still have to a lot more matha nd bug finding That why I ORDERED my Nismo Z and didn't just go to a dealer and buy it. Keep the suggestion coming.

A supercharged engine can last just as long as a high strung custom engine. Racing engines for example, are usually re-built after a few races, if not after every race. If you want bullet proof reliability, buy a Camry and call it a day. FI is the best bang for the buck. Even if you blow the stock engine, a new one won't cost you $21k. Check out the GTM or Stillen supercharger if you don't want to go with turbo's. No "lag"

dont like turbo lag. but you'd supercharge that thing..

I just dont think you really understand how it all works. esp in our cars.

apart from the stuff you posted, theres nitrous and/or otherwise maybe jet turbine on the roof. (always wanted to try that. mythbusters style)

Nah gotta go Rolls Royce Gnome turbo shaft through the helicopter reducer box to the rear axle with a drive rotor brake and 11" titanium exhaust out the roof, back when i had a 300zx this was my plan before i bought the 370z. up to 1200hp, and 900ft lbs at 0rpm, straight up monster. can be purchased military surplus for 16,000 fully rebuilt, and they run for 2,300 hours before needing a service. which would be over 2 years averaging 3 hours a day. Oh and that is running at full throttle all the time. you could pull up to an s2000 and say your motor spins 10 time faster than his(if he could hear you) and you could run it on diesel, kerosene, jet fuel, waste oil, vegetable oil, melted wax or plastic, or anything else thats heavy and burns. Plus who doesn't love a 3:1 compression ratio?

Edit: drag car only lol

This kid sounds like he's 12.

who me or the guy who wants to blow 21 grand for 80hp?

well i am looking for suggestions not haters. I am 18 so that = not 12.

Your not helping your cause:p

:koolaidwall:

what is going on here.. :roflpuke2:

you could drop in a cosworth VQ3.5 built motor. That is about as good as it gets in the N/A with a vq. I hear its an easy swap. 400 WHP

:roflpuke2:

c'mon guys lets not all beat up on the rich kid (hell i'm only 3 yrs older than him). Ok now seriously i urge you to reconsider the FI option. turbo setups are not always laggy, it depends on how it is setup, if the kit can hit full boost around 3000 you aren't going to know, and also what is your experience with horsepower, and not " i drove a lambo once" have you ever driven a rear wheel drive car with more than 400hp on a wet road?you could end up getting even a stage one turbo our supercharger good for over 400hp as a base/safe/longevity setup, and not know what the hell to do and ditch it the first time you hit the power. i would say drive your car for a year before you even think about any of this so you will have a better idea of what you really want to change. Either way if you don't like the way a turbo comes on i PROMISE a supercharger is totally different maybe stop out by gtm and see if Sam can get you a drive in the stage one shop car. It will feel seamless like it was just a bigger motor. and as for the N/a build the centrifugal supercharger will pull up through redline and our motors can already be tuned to go over 7500 as they are now. you sir are the perfect candidate for a centrifugal supercharger(especially if you really like top end via your turbo the sh!t out of your friends supra comment). The GTM stage 2 will be out this spring, and thats looking at 450whp easy for less than half your budget. And an N/a build may last a bit longer than a F/I build(not much if you're gonna go crazy like your first post) but it will be a hell of a lot cheaper to rebuild because WHEN your 20,000 N/a blows up it will cost at least that again to fix not to mention getting all your custom(because no one makes that sh!t right now)parts remade. get a GTM supercharger, and use youre extra money for a suspension upgrade(the nismo stuff is crap compared to the current aftermarket kits) clutch and flywheel, maybe do something with the body and wheels, and hell get a stroker motor built.<---now doesn't that sound better than a totally stock nismo with a just a 400hp engine? Also Sam is a pro that has had his hands on a hell of a lot more Z's than your uncle and these cars very much require vehicle specific knowledge, they're nothing like a chevy, dodge, or ford, and even factory nissan techs hardly know sh!t about them.

i drive a my bros '08m5 as of right now. i have been driving his m5 and m6(which ever was available) since i've been 16. i am going to get coilover suspension done as soon as i get my car. my dad is letting me do all this stuff because it is graduation/birthday gift form him to me

sorry i had to make a account here just to post a response to this kid. look dude plain and simple people here are trying to help you. you said you want titanium internals? well if you make a crank and pistons out of titanium your going to have problems not sure what will happen because i dont know the metallurgy of titanium but there has to be a reason no one uses it, not even funny cars they still use billet aluminum pistons and billet steel cranks. a few cars do use titanium rods mainly the corvette z06, problem is no one makes them for a 370 and its not as simple as using a mold someone has or copying a current steel design onto titanium your going to have to pay someone to design a rod for you then either cast it or machine it out of billet. since production high end rods go for 1k i would expect to spend roughly 20-25% of your budget on rods alone if you go this route.

You mention reliability but do you understand how horsepower is made? its essentially just torque over a period of time where as torque is an instantaneous snapshot of force, that's the easiest way i can put it so you can understand it. put simply the number one way to make hp in a n/a vehicle is through rpms F= M x A when you use forced induction you are increasing the "mass" on exerted on the rotating assembly with n/a you increase the "acceleration" in terms of higher rpms and faster pistons speeds, either way you are sacrificing reliability no matter what method you use for increased power nothing you can do to counteract this. a n/a engine can only make so much power because you can only fit so much air into the cylinders an can only spin the engine so fast.

Bottom line is if you want a little bit faster throw some bolt on on there for n/a power your not going to get much from them but your not gonna sacrifice that much reliability. but your not going to be that much faster either.
If you want alot faster the ONLY methods are superchargers, turbos and nitrous. Dont mess with nitrous just by reading your posts your too inexperienced, you can have reliability from it but if you dont know what your doing there is no faster way to blow an engine. i had a 84 camaro with a 300 shot of nitrous on it that mad it 26 passes down the dragstrip before i melted a piston and that was using a window switch AND jacobs mastermind granted at 150 bucks for a new longblock at a junkyard i dint care.
Super chargers will give you a power band that feels "stock" just alot faster your limiting your power with these though but for the street they are more then enough.
finally the reason everyone recommends turbos nowadays is because they are advanced enough now that you can have damn near a supercharger power band or you can have insane power numbers aka the supra and there are 350z's out there making power numbers similar just not nearly as many of them. with a properly designed system you can have a car that performs exactly how YOU want it to for the way YOU drive. no offense to your uncle but this isnt anything he is used to, if i told my uncle i was going to build a 700 hp 350z he would tell me its impossible without a 400+ cubic inch motor because they dont know current tech. even though many many people have surpassed this with engines this size or smaller.

overall you really shouldnt do anything to your car you need to drive it stock get used to it and in the meantime learn everything you can about the car every car is different and you need to know about your car. if you dont you are plain and simple going to be another statistic in a box and then your family is going to deal with the consequences most notably not having a son anymore. i grew up in a town with a 40K+ a year collage and we had it every year on average 5 crashs a year where a 18 or 19 year old rich kid killed himself or others because his parents bought him a viper/corvette/porsche/add another vehicle here.

Now dont get me wrong im not "hatin" good for you on the car i love z cars since i got my 350 which is why i dont drive camaros anymore. however you need to understand cars before you try something like this, you dont need to do the work yourself but you need to understand at a bare minimum how these things effec your car. with that long *** post good luck and enjoy your car =D

ps. you mentioned you would turbo the hell outa a supra just so yah know the supra has a 3L motor compared to the 370s 3.7L this means the power comes on sooner with turbos and is better for streetability over a supra

Mother Fucker

omfg.

okay i'm little less pissed off so

1. Never tell guys that your dad bought you your car and gave you 20K to mod it or they'll want to burn you at the stake. (unless you were hired as an NFL quarterback, won the Noble Peace prize, did something a hell of a lot more important than graduating F'n highschool)

2. At least learn something about F.I. and the realities of having a balls out n/a build before you post something like that to give you a bit more credibility otherwise no one will want to help you.

3. Tell him you don't want the money or the car and get a 3,000 dollar 94 toyota corolla. Or use the money to go to college but i bet that's payed for too.

4. just go forced induction because you could blow it up every year and have it fixed as your christmass present.

5. Seriously now, get the car, put in a better clutch flywheel, upgraded concentric slave cylinder, new wheels and tires, carbotech pads and stainless brake lines, motul brake and clutch fluid, the gtm stage 2 supercharger with better pistons and rods, hks fconv ecu, get it built at gtm, put a good 2.5" catback on it, a douple din kenwood or alpine touchscreen nav deck with new speakers, beat your brothers M5, and shut the hell up about n/a because you don't want it you'll have no torque think the car is **** and have wasted your(dads) money. Full N/a builds are only for professional drivers that compete with car, and seeing as this will be your daily and you've done almost no research on putting forced induction on one of these cars(nor do you know how bad the n/a torque output really is compared to a v8). Just get the damn supercharger.

6. You live you learn you shut hell up about how good you have it on the internet, and you just drop the car off at GTM in the future and be happy.

I call bs on this thread and bs on this kid.

Lol for the record... A 4.0 titanium internals etc etc... And u want a drivable car. No offense to ur uncle he is right as far as it being more reliable but to an extent. Your building a allmotor race car with those parts. Ur car is gonna piss u off more than a bolt on tt kit will. Goodluck

And for everyone explaining the logic behind how it works proooobably won't do much to the guys mind.

I'm gonna say to the OP, u say u don't like lag, well lag is minimal on a twin 3071 kit. It's really not that bad, or on twins in general honestly.

shhh that still lags when compared to a supra making gobs of power. I swear, i learned it from Fast and Furious.