Update: Ok, service writer came over with this.... Checked out the system, no leaks and fluid quality look ok. They checked the service bulletins and found one on the problem... "We read the bulletin and this is how Nissan wants us to handle issues like yours when someone brings in a vehicle and reports your issues... We are going to flush/upgrade your fluid to GTR and hopefully this will fix the problem.
I'm almost ok with that to be fair because its acting normal today (naturally)... I might be back again but I can't expect them to start replacing stuff without evidence. No mention of any charge for the work/fluid/bleed.

Wow - Good to know. Thanks for the update. Hopefully that would cure your problem, but somehow a little voice inside my head says "don't know about this..." . Just my untrusting self in what the service tech said - I guess... Keep us posted.

SkipinJupiter, sounds like a load of bull. How did they check the system for leaks without dropping the trans. When the csc fails, it leaks inside the bell housing, not outside.

What was their explanation for loss of pedal pressure [if there are no leaks]?

Looks like its my turn to play. On my way to the shop after running a few errands locally I lost all pressure on my clutch. I had it happen a few times before but it would magically get the pressure back the next day but today it fully gave out. On my way! To the dealer right now on the tow lets see how this goes. 2012 with 6800 miles and got it 4-19-12. I saw a few people talk about the 1 year 12k warranty can someone educate me on it because I am still under 1 yr and never heard of it

Update: got a call today stating they found the problem and they are saying it is the hydraulic oil that is bad. So they are changing it tomorrow

Just to confirm Nissan did recently release a TSB stating to use GTR brake fluid to cure/avoid this problem.

Source: Nissan/Infinity Master Tech

Got my car back yesterday and as strokethis347 stated, there is a new bulletin regarding this issue. The same thing they told Jupiter pretty much was what they told me. They replaced the fluid with the gtr, they couldn't find any leaks and this seems to have fixed the issue at least for now. I'm still worried about this issue reoccurring and me getting stuck again. On the plus side they did cover my tow expense (i don't have road side assistance), and gave me a loaner for the 5 days they had my car.

Wow, took them 5 days to change the clutch fluid and bleed it?
That's got to be a record! /sarcasm

Seriously, what is the difference between the GTR fluid and the fluid in the Stock Z?

Stock is Nissan DOT 3. The GTR is DOT 4 and more than likely is synthetic and has different additives in it.

My 5th gear downshift from 6 is grinding now and then with a fast downshift... regardless or synchrorev or rev matching damn it. I need to take car back to dealer AGAIN

Keep this updated, My guess is it will work for awhile then you'll be back for a master cylinder replacement.

So am I correct in assuming that if we change our fluid from DOT3 to DOT4 we'll avoid this issue???

What are the hazards of leftover DOT3 mixing with DOT4 if we attempt this, is there an incompatibility?

I get the feeling I'm reading too much into this and the OP actual problem is CSC or MC but I'm not a practicing mechanic.....

All brake fluid is synthetic.

Dot 4 has slightly higher wet and dry boiling points. Both are compatible with one another but not dot 5 (albeit dot 5.1 is also compatible with 3 & 4, but not 5).

IMO, at a minimal, dot 4 should be used in any high perf vehicle.

Lazy to read past post. Any particular year model does this problem occurs?
or what Date of manufacture? TY.

Took 5 days because I dropped it off Friday 20 min before the service department was closing so they did not get to look at it till Saturday, and of course Saturday the clutch pressure was fine (magic I know) so they let it sit until they can find what the problem was, Sunday was day 3 and they were closed so Monday day 4 was really the 2nd day they looked at it and the pressure was fine again. They couldn't find any leaks of course and didnt know why it lost pressure so finally tuesday they got the bulletin and informed they will be replacing the fluid & to come get it the next day (weds). So yea kind of a long hassle I'm just hoping it was really that and not the cmc warranty or not

I might be willing to change my fluid now before I have any problems. Let us know how it works out. I'm not having any clutch issues now but one never knows....I'm half expecting it but since my car has 12K miles on it (2009) I hope I have a little while before I have to get underneath it.

Wasn't thinking when I typed that lol.

Yes dot 5 is a big no no.

The difference between dot 3 and 4 is negligible for a street or street performance vehicle. Unless you are going to track it, if you have DOT 3 in I wouldn't go run out and change it just because it is DOT 3 (your not going to boil it on the street or spirited driving). Also I believe the viscosity is different between the 2.

I'm at 6,700 miles and had to do it :/

Just an update on my experience with taking my Z in and the service department performing the service tech. Bulletin GTX fluid swap out.... It's been 2 weeks and the moving clutch engagement issue has not re-occurred. I was skeptical and it still might go bad, but it's performing fine right now. Just FYI

Does anyone know if black deposits (almost like a fine black silt) in the bottom of the clutch fluid reservoir is a sign of seals wearing out on my master or slave cylinder? I am running the stock dot 3 fluid. Flushed about 6 months ago.

:iagree: Is the CSC an issue with later models?

Hi Mandingo,

The silt could either be decay from the black hose connecting the Clutch fluid reservoir to the Master cylinder or as you suspect, pieces of the O rings and/or the seals in the master cylinder or the CSC.
I'm not a mechanic by trade so those are my best guesses. I did watch a video the other day when a guy bled the old fluid out of his G37 clutch line and the mechanic was wiping out the black silt in the reservoir that you described, he didn't make any comment about it's origin. I don't know if it's normal wear and tear, the clutch does get a lot more sloshing around than the brakes so the fluid could theoretically move from top to bottom on a regular basis.

I found the video again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=1A9fsdoAngI

Hi Akmcmahon,

In this forum I've read about 2013 on down having the CSC failure within 7000 miles and some at 20 or 30,000 miles and some having that many miles with no failures. I detect no pattern and theoretically, because "race car" then power train components should not fail within the boundaries of their use (capability of the engine) etc.

It is normal to get black silt in the reservoir. This is very fine clutch debris that works its way past the seals from the internal slave (CSC). They will all get it sooner or later.

We recommend flushing the system at least twice a year with the stock slave or our HD slave.

Thank you Joe and Fountainhead. I saw the recent TSB about replacing our dot 3 fluid with the dot 4 brake fluid from the GTR. I've ordered some and will flush this weekend. I'll just keep a closer eye on it now :tiphat:

OK, bought new Dot 3-4 brake fluid tonight and pulled all the fluid from my reservoir and used a small hose to pull from my line to Master Cylinder. Then, I found fine black silt in the bottom of my reservoir also! I wiped it out carefully like the guy in the video I linked to, and then filled the reservoir back up with new fluid. Next time I get a chance to work on my own car I'll get someone to pump and I'll flush the line with that GTR fluid.
I'm not having any problems at all but I'm a proactive kind of guy and I think it sounds like a good idea anyway. I'm only at 12K miles but my Z is a May 2009 baby, so the fluid in there is 4 years old.

I'm most likely the latest victim at 14k! Researching this issue while waiting at my home for a tow truck. I drive a 2012 base/sport and not a hard driver at all. I will fill you all in on details as soon as I get it dropped off at the stealership.

Update: So I've pulled and refilled the fluid in my reservoir twice now about 2 days apart, each time the fluid is clear the night I replace it and about a day and half later I notice the fluid is slightly brown again. So 3 times I've pulled all the fluid out of the black hose and the reservoir with a large syringe. This is the third time so maybe it's clean now. I have to wait a couple more days to find out how dirty it gets again. Hopefully it won't take too many more times. I've got plenty of fluid though!
PS: I think I'll stop now, this thread is about failure, not prevention, apologies!

^^What are you trying to do? If you're trying to bleed, that's not how it's done. There's still fluid in the line.

You'll have to do a full flush if you don't want it to turn brown the next day. I'm running Motul RBF600. So far so good. I wouldn't mind a flush later this year, though.

Right.
I realize I'm only replacing/mixing hopefully less old and more new each time. Bleed? I would only do that if I were having issues and had to try the GTR fluid and wanted to replace ALL the fluid in the sytem. Right now I'm just playin, I have a huge new bottle of Vavoline Dot3/4 fluid.

I may be the latest victim of the CSC failure. On my way back from 180mi trip, I realized my clutch felt like stepping on a puddle of wet s#it after passing the bridge toll gate. At that moment, CSC failure immediately came to my mind. So instead of driving to my condo (w/o shfting gears too frequently), I drove directly to the dealer and parked it overnight on their lot.
I noticed empty brake fluid (fluid level was a bit on the low side prior to departure). I didn't get any brake warning lights, or mushy brake pedal feel. Now the car is in the shop for a service.


Is CSC a part of the power train warranty coverage..?

Unless rules are different in canada, csc is not covered under power train. Should be covered under extended.

How many miles on the car? How is it driven?

Why would you check your brake fluid for clutch purposes? Also, why get a brake warning light or mushy brake pedal??? The two systems are completely independent of each other.

Low brake fluid is a function of worn pads, not failed csc.

1. 37,000km
2. Not abused, but not like a granny
3. Aren't they related?

Sucks they're not covered under the warranty.. But they're looking into the tech. bulletin. They noticed that there's a tech bulletin RE: clutch pedal sticking.

That's pretty low miles for a csc failure, although it seems to happen even on newer cars, so who knows.

The only relationship between the brake fluid and clutch is that it's the same type of hydraulic fluid used in both systems. Other than that, they are independent systems in this driveline. Some mfg's do use the brake reservoir as a source of fluid for the clutch. This isn't one of them.

http://www.z1motorsports.com/imageGa...2_itemId=85802

The clutch one is the smaller of the 2 in the pic above.

If it's the same bulletin i've read before, it involves changing out the fluid to that of the gtr brake fluid (higher wet/dry boiling points). I guess that's a starting point rather than dropping the trans to inspect for a failed csc.

I'm guessing you never flushed/bled the clutch fluid? It is possible there was moisture/an air bubble.

Let us know what they find.

Ok.. yeah it's the smaller one I checked..

I will update as soon as more information comes along.

**Update**
CSC is gone. Small contamination to the clutch disk.
I decided to replace CSC,Master,clutch/flywheel to aftermarket.

Keep us posted as to what you get and review it here please! Good luck!

Will do.

Ordered from Zspeed,
South Bend Clutch SS Street Clutch and Aluminum Flywheel with silent disk option
HD CSC
Motul RBF 600 Brake fluid
Motul MT fluid

Should be here monday/tuesday!

so with the bulletin, is the new school of thought to take your care into the dealership to have them replace the fluid regardless now?

I would say that's probably the best you can do at this point. Up here in Canada, however, the bulletin is only in the 'development' stage.