C. is about the last thing you should care about. Z people need to stop chasing the widest tire they can fit and focus more about how sticky the tire is. A 255mm drag radial will be a hell of a lot better than a 305mm Pilot sport.

You need to learn throttle control. When you feel the car spinning gently reduce throttle until it gains traction. Never fully take your foot of the gas, pretty much the worst thing you can do.

Can you elaborate on this? No else mentioned this in the thread, why is this so important?

It's called back pedaling. When you feel the rear coming loose. You lift a little on the gas pedal. Not all the way off. Until the rear reagains traction. Then you start pressing down again. If you lift all the way off. There is a good chance that the rear will whip around the other way. Causing brown stains in your underwear.

When you let off the gas, you change the loading of the suspension (load moves forward, similar to as if you had hit the brakes). You're already in a precarious position and a sudden change in handling can make things (much) worse. Probably other variables involved.

OK fair enough. This happend the other day when I took a hard exit out of a corner, the car started snaking a bit and instead of fully letting go of the acc. pedal like I normally would when I freak out, I only slightly lifted the pedal put still kept some throttle on and it made the car straighten out in a more controllable fashion.

But god damm, it is so easy to lose traction on this setup, I wish it was more predictable lol

It's a turbo car with some HP/TQ. They are very rewarding when driven properly. You just have to practice. It's not easy to learn but when you get it you will appreciate other folks skill even more.

Im prolly gonna need a good few laps at the track to learn the new power/tq.

THIS! Stop worshiping those damn pilot super sports. They're really not THAT good, just okay. Look at the Toyo R888R or Nitto NT01 if you want something that holds traction better in dry weather and still can handle well. Hell, even the Bridgestone RE-71R is fantastic and still keeps 200 treadwear (okay, barely, and just on paper). Drag radials if you're that desperate for traction, but don't expect them to handle turns all too well. Compound > tire size

PSS are a lot better on the street for every day driving then drag radials. Like you said. They don't handle turns too well. This will get him killed. R Comp tires NEED heat in them to work properly. You would have to drive at least at 80% level to keep some heat in them. All you are doing is heat cycling the tire too much on the street. Too much cycling and the tires become hard. R Comp tires don't work well in the rain either.

It will take more time than that. If you drive the car regularly it will take at least a year. I am very familiar with boosted cars and I expect it to take me at least 6 months. That driving will not be on the limit either. That would take even longer and require a track.
As was stated before, the car will and can kill you. Go Slow.

Can I just observe that I have been racing for 40-odd years with 400+ lbs/ft torque and 500+ hp (NA, not FI so at least it is more predictable) and unless you are at it regularly (even constantly) it is very very easy to get caught out.

I had a 2-season holiday as a consequence of suspension component failure back in 2015 thru to late 2017 and it took me one whole race meeting to get back up to speed at Phillip Island and a minimum of 2 sessions at Winton and Sandown.

A "monster" needs respect and key to that is disciplined use of your foot on the right pedal.

It is ridiculously easy to be caught out, especially on a wet/damp road surface.

You need seat time on a track and Mallala or The Bend are both accessible to you. That's the thin end of the wedge though because consumeable's get used up quickly .. tyres and brake pads.

Using a FI car on the track also requires a lot of attentions to coolant AND oil temps and a disciplined (gee - there is that word again) approach to cool-down

Like I said, come talk to me in October at The Bend if you want .....

If you fully take your foot off the gas while losing traction, trying to gain traction back, you'll disrupt the dynamics of the entire car. IE like someone mentioned earlier, you shift motion and weight towards the front of the car just like you were pressing the brakes. regulating the throttle and learning how the car reacts is something that needs to be learned. The best thing you can do for yourself and what I recommend people to do with newly boosted cars or higher hp ones is to find an abandoned place and purposely make the car lose traction so you can find out exactly how it reacts and teach yourself how to control it. That way if it ever happens on the street or the track you'll be better prepared at how to handle it.

Now to explain more in depth as to why I said drag radial vs street tires. I wasn't referring that you NEED drag radials, it was a comparison between two tires, one with a small contact patch but is stickier vs one that is super wide but with less "stickiness." These Z people see that they have a 19x10 factory wheel and figure "oh well I can comfortably fit a 305mm tire so lets do it." NOOOOOOOO. Wrong way to go about fixing any sort of traction issues that you may have. Unless you're going after looks, a 305 also has less of a sidewall than slightly smaller tires. I will never buy an expensive tire ever again. My slicks are about $200 a tire and that's as expensive as I will go. I will continue to rave and push Federal tires. I use a 275/35 RS-RR on the rear of my Supra and I can dead hook half way through second at 30+psi of boost with no traction aids on my Haltech. You can find those tires for around $120 through most vendors, if not cheaper. For the price you can't beat them. Sure there are better tires that may last longer or grip better, but for the price tag of almost 2 and a half times more?

You have to also realize that Z's are terrible at handling FI in terms of spinning. Their suspension geometry is so bad at performing straight line acceleration without spinning. You should look into getting a good LSD if you don't have one, maybe adjusting rear camber and toe, getting new suspension pieces that better suit your driving style, etc. Your tuner is also mine as well. Seb has tuned one of my boosted Z's and has another one of my cars there. He is extremely knowledgeable when it comes to whatever questions you may have so maybe you can ask him to dial back some power until you can learn how to better control your car.

6mt370, is it really that bad though?

Today I went out to take some logs for seb by upping the boost. Even though the boost is only 7.5psi, my car was already trying to spin out of control in 3rd gear and I wasn't even fully WOT. I even tried to ease into it from 40mph and it still was trying to go sideways. Surely this can't be how the car is suppose to behave.

I feel like something is not rite? Camber, alighnment or something?
I can't continue on like this otherwise it's going to eventually go south.

Shadow, just get with BGTV8 before changing more things. He’s a track rat that forgets more about vehicle dynamics than I will ever know.

Just get with him.

What temperature is it when you are doing these logs?

What tires are on the rear. Air pressure, tread depth, alignment settings?

This is exactly how 450+ lbs/ft or torque behaves and this is what it will be like all the time.

I once bought a race-spec A9X Torana (genuine factory- race-car built by Harry Firth of Holden Dealer Team) when I was a 25 year-old and had to sell it because with 420hp in 1100kgs it was undriveable on the road.

That's the equivalent of what you have now, a V8SuperCar torque on the road with "road" tyres.

Why do you think that the old heads are counselling you to be wise and judicious.

This is what I was thinking to myself he is either running too much air pressure in the rear, not driving enough to get heat into tires first and old or heat cycled tires.

The more info, the better.

And lets get away from the drag radials please. He has a street car, and mentioned about going to a road course, not a drag strip. :shakes head:

I agree with you on getting heat in the tires, When my NT05's are cold it's like driving on ice. When they get heated up, they get super sticky. Night and day difference.

Agreed, there are so many variables. You saw my setup at ZDAYZ. I would not hesitate to daily r888s. There is a reason that all the high end or track oriented cars come with cup 2 tires in 305 or larger being the norm. He just needs to quit listening to the outliers. I'm into my third season of tracking and have yet to turn up the boost. I get as much information as I can from the guys bgtv8, instruction at least every other event and let the instructor drive my car so he can give me feedback and I can observe his lines, braking and exit points as his driving inputs. By letting others help me give me years of experience without having to do stupid and accelerates my learning.

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You :driving: Rabbit hole :eek:

I mentioned before I have PSS 275/35R19 on the rear.

When you guys say do I heat it up before the pulls, I do maybe some normal driving for about 15 minutes before the pulls and it was a cold night. Is that enough?

Reason why I think something is wrong with my setup, is because all the other boosted guys that I speak to don't seem to complain about the car doing scary sideways **** very abruptly like mine does

Like when I go fast, it literally feels like somebody is violently pulling my steering wheel to one side. Its not kool... ;(

Check out this video:
http://www.the370z.com/track-autocro...crashed-z.html

I feel like this is what my car is doing under hard acceleration, but too a much higher degree I rekon.

That's not enough. Need to do 20 to 30min in the cold with some mild pulls. It sounds like you need to upgrade your diff to a Quaiffe, Wavetrac, or a OS Giken. That will help with it stepping out. You won't get the one wheel spinning problem. That's when it can get crazy.

Hate to say it. For you, it's scary. But that's when I start to grin when it starts to go sideways. :driving: That's the difference in experience.

That was due to the Viscous LSD. Notice how the left wheel spun and then the right one went to spinning. That's what it does.

YeeHawwww.... Ride'em cowboy. LOL

:driving:

You don't answer the question we ask with any detail. If you want help answer the questions. So you have PSSs, what is the tread depth left on them and how old are they? When you say cold, what is cold? I live in AZ and if it is 70 or below it's cold to most here in the state. You need to drive around for at least 20 minutes at highway speed 60 mph or more. Anything more than 34 psi is too much.

How is your alignment? Does it want to pull one way or another at 60 mph? Can you let go of the wheel at 60 mph and the car will go in a straight line? If you have done all of these things then the car is fine....park it and buy a Miata until you learn how to drive and control a tail happy vehicle.

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So, when I am in my race car (which is the equivalent of what you have now), I get a warm-up lap before forming up on the grid.

If you've watched SuperCars or AUS GT on the tele, you will see really abrupt steering inputs weaving side to side and on the gas then hard on the brakes repeatedly in 2nd gear to get heat into the brakes which soaks very quickly into the wheel and then the tyre.

This heat is what gives grip

Any road tyre construction/compound is designed to dissipate heat because heat kills tyre life. So - regardless of your tyre selection, UNLESS you have 100 or 80 TWI where the compromise is reversed because the tyre maker is biasing heavily towards grip and not tyre life, you will be grip limited and getting heat into one of these tyres can take 10 minutes of hard work.

Even the PSS is only a uber-premium road tyre and "not really" that sticky.

Stickey is an ADVAN A050 or DZ03G or R888 and they need a warm-up procedure like I have described AND they will be licky to give you 1000km life being used on the road before they turn to battery cases due to heat cycles.

To generate some heat and therefore grip, emulate pukka race drivers - but I have to tell you that doing this on a public road - even a quiet industrial estate - will be a cop-magnet and I suspect that SAPOL have similar nanny-state rule to Vic and if they deem you are "hooning", then you car gets a 30-day holiday and maybe a canary defect notice to be put back to standard.

A 500+hp and 1400kg car with effectively an open diff (VLSD is a PoS) will always step sideways when it breaks loose so this needs attention soon (more expense).

You need some driver coaching I reckon AND a decent diff - without getting equal torque to both rear wheels you are going to have continuing problems.

Talk to someone in a CAMS affiliated car club about driver training - or call Naomi Maltby at Sporting Car Club of SA to find out what they do

The other thing is to make sure your front and rear alignments are in spec AND tyre pressures are around 32-34psi.

Finally the 370Z gets quite a lot of camber gain in squat which can mean that all your torque gets transmitted to the road thru the inside half of the tyre, but now we are into a whole different world of suspension tuning which if carried to its logical extreme will make the car a pig to drive ....... heavier sprints is the brute force solution but shocks that can be stiffened up so slow-speed bump and softer for high speed bump are the optimum (but figure these at 2K per corner)

You are in the process of learning the expensive lesson of double the torque in an OEM chassis simply requires more changes and expense. to make it liveable

I've seen guys in Vic tip mega money into their Z34 and out the end of it, realised they could have purchased a 4-6 yo GTR and had a better car.

I have a PM in my archive somewhere, where I cautioned against FI because the initial investment is less than half that which is required to make it work properly.

So - think about driver training (which won't be cheap BTW - consumeables are exactly that - and you chew thru them at a fair rate).

I think I am now done on this thread

Agree, I am done also.

You will stick around just for the :drama:

I hope for no drama and we do not have another casualty.

Shadow needs to play some Forza

Agreed!!!

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:iagree:

I didn't realise you don't have a proper LSD. I think it's a must for a boosted Z. I bet this has more to do with you getting so sideways with the power you now have.

VDC off I almost crashed!!
 

He has a Quaife. It’s listed in the first post.

Spooler optimizer, and BG, I already have a quaiffe diff installed at the time of the TT install.
I also have:
Whiteline diff bushing kit
Z1 Urethane motor/trans mounts
Z1 subframe bushing collar kit
Eibach swaybar kit (on the softest setting)
Eibach lowering springs
SPC front camber arms

I would have hopes to have good traction, but yes that is still a far fetched desire for my setup.

So BG you rekon that R888R will only last 1000kms, there are some people who rekon they have lasted them 10000km. To me that would be bearable, but not 1000km.

OK.
I have gathered from this thread so far
1. Learn the car better, practise
2. Stickier tyres
3. More suspension mods?

Anything I forgot here?
Also, does anyone here use Ecutek traction control on the-fly?