First wash a DISASTER. Please help...

Super Tanooki

Fire away...

Junkman2008

Man! I feel like Robocop when they terminated his 4th prime directive preventing him from arresting any senior executive of OCP. Now I can take the gloves off!

Okay Tanooki, I can see that you have been reading some detailing threads by the fact that you bought two buckets. Don't buy anything else until you have done some research of the correct caliber. You know how they say "practice makes perfect?" The correct saying is "perfect practice makes perfect." If you are repeating a incorrect approach, you will experience what you are experiencing.

Let's start with those two buckets you bought. Great for carrying water around in but they are the last things that I would use to wash my car. The reason why is that your two buckets are missing the most important thing that a two bucket wash process must have in order to SAFELY wash your car and those are Grit Guards.

It does you no good to use a two bucket system if your soap and rinse water has dirt in it that you continuously disturb every time you stick your mitt into them. The Grit Guards are what prevents this from happening, along with the practice of using two buckets. I did a thread about the Grit Guards and the Grit Guard buckets and how they work. I suggest that you take a look at that thread so that you can get a thorough understanding of the importance of using them.

Next, let's address those towels and that Chamois or "shammy". First, the shammy. There is one major problem with those and that is, not all Chamois are authentic. Everything that you will find in the big box and auto stores are usually made in China crap consisting of goat or pig skin, instead of being made from the actual Chamois, a goat-antelope species native to mountains in Europe, including the Carpathian Mountains of Romania, the European Alps, the Tatra Mountains, the Balkans, parts of Turkey, and the Caucasus.

Now I didn't remember that off the top of my head, I had to look that up!

Anywho, if you think that what you are getting in a auto store is high grade and cost a lot, those prices and quality are nothing compared to the cost of real Chamois, which is often used in the glove making industry. For example, a 40x60cm piece of real Chamois will run you around $50 US. But man, they make some of the best driving and golf gloves that you will ever put your hands into. I paid $60 for my Chamois golf gloves.

That China made junk is garbage and will scratch up your paint. I used enough of it in the 80's to know first hand.

The same goes for the microfiber towels that you purchased. If you look at the tags on them, you will see that they were made in China. Totally garbage. When I bought my car from the first owner, he told me that the only thing he ever used to dry the car with was those fancy microfiber towels that he bought at Auto Zone. Here's what the car looked like the day I bought it:



Concentrate on the door where the sun is hitting it. Do you see all those hideous scratches and swirls? That looks like utter crap! This is the bliss that a lot of car owners live in. Those cheap, made in China towels are NOT what you want touching your car. They will scratch the paint to hell and back. It doesn't happen with the first use, it happens over time. Those scratches will always be in your paint if you continue to use those towels you bought.

Now I never bag on a product without recommending a alternative. I have found two towels which are worth their weight in gold. The Adam's Single Soft Microfiber Towel and the Zaino Borderless Blond Towel. You cannot go wrong with either towel. These are two of the best towels on the market.

Now let's address your product choice. Since you purchased Meguiar's, I will assume that Meguiar's is the brand you want to use. I will not attempt to change your mind, however, I will educate you on the product of your choice.

Meguiar's has an excellent line of products, some of which I use in my very own garage. You on the other hand, did not purchase any of them. As a matter of fact, what you purchased was from the junk line that Meguiar's sells. Here's the deal.

Meguiar's has two separate lines of product. One line will say "Meguiar's" on the bottle (what you bought). That is their consumer line. It is priced aggressively compared to the other products that sit beside it on the shelves at the big box and auto stores. That is their watered down, containing fillers line. That is what I call garbage.

Then there is their professional line. It will say "Mirror Glaze" on the label. This product IS NOT sold in big box or auto stores. The only place that you can get it is online, at professional body shop outlets or at a Mirror Glaze distributor. This is the stuff you want to be using if you are going to use the Meguiar's line. It ain't cheap and it is not conveniently located (unless you have a Mirror Glaze distributor in your city like I do). ANYTHING from their professional line is going to be an outstanding product. You have a multitude of products to choose from within that line and for a novice, this can be not only confusing, but daunting at the same time. That is the main reason that I don't use it as a teaching tool. Novices get totally lost in all the different products. That is also why I use Adam's, and use it as a teaching tool. It is as simple as these videos.

Now there are people who use the consumer line products from Meguiar's and feel that they are a lot better than I give them credit for. At the same time, I'm sure you've had a friend who swore that some woman he saw was fine as hell but once you laid eyes upon her, you were looking for the nearest grocery bag. All of that is to say this. Anyone can tell you that their paint looks better than showroom on the Internet. They can even post a 20' shot of their car and make it look gorgeous. But until you can walk up to their car and stick your nose down in the paint, you will really never know if what they say is true or not. That's why I will set the bar at what I call perfect paint so that you and I are on the same page.

Here's a car that looks like it is ready for a trip across the stage at Barrett-Jackson. At first glance, this is a dream.



But when you actually walk up on the paint and stick your nose in it, this is what you see:





It's about as bad as when they turn the lights on at closing time in a strip club, allowing you actually see what the strippers really look like.

Now using the process that you saw in the videos that I linked to earlier, this is what half of that car looked like when I finished with it:






As you can see, my idea of perfect paint is little more extreme than most. You are not going to get those kinds of results with the stuff you purchased. You kinda wasted your money there but hey, we all had to learn including me. Mind you, I started back in the early 80's so I've been through a lot of garbage products.

I'll leave you with two images of my paint. From 10 feet:



...and from 10 inches:



The result is the same. Flawless.

I await your questions.

__________________
"Marines - Making the other guy die for his country for over 200 years."

Super Tanooki

Wow, Junkman, that's a great write-up, thanks very much man, I really appreciate it. I had actually previously watched your videos before posting this thread - very informative and, actually, very entertaining to watch.

(Before I start, questions for you are in bold, for easy return-reference).

Here's the thing (and don't take this the wrong way, I have saved every shred of information you offered and will use it all); I think there are certainly different degrees to which one can go to achieve a certain result with this.

You take it to the highest degree - professional, order-only products, PCs, and all that. It's the whole hog. And so you get a professional finish. The reason why I watched your videos and then, seemingly arrogantly, proceeded not to buy all the stuff you used and copy it exactly is simply because, right at this very moment in time, I'm not ready to go that far.

The reason is a mixture of confidence and money. I just bought the car. I basically picked up my bank account like a giant pot and tipped it upside down into the lap of a Nissan salesman. Therefore, while I respect the fact that you get what you pay for when it comes to car products, and I totally aimed to avoid getting 'the cheap stuff', I'm certainly not ready to hit one of those $400 PC packages on Adams. I need a few months to recover the cash to spend on stuff like that.

Confidence-wise, I really just didn't want to take any sort of machine to my paintwork. Like, I know that these processes basically wear down a tiny layer of your clear coat. I know my car's relatively new and so I should have plenty of clearcoat to play with. But I just didn't want to go so far as using a machine - just yet.

All in all, I'm not going to achieve your professional, perfect results. I know this.

So, basically, my intention was (is) to - for now - do the best possible job I can by hand without having to buy bottles of insanely-priced super soap or specialist machines, but also without doing further damage to my paint.

Of course, I fully respect your methods, and I know that achieving the perfect paint you show in those pics will require me to go further than some over-the-counter products and a bit of elbow grease. That's why there are professionals, like yourself, in the world - because the average people using average methods don't garner the same spotless results.

I guess I'm aiming for that level just below professional, but well above the typical spit-wash normal people do who don't know or care about the finer condition of their paint.

So here's what I want to do. I want to wash and dry the car the best I can. Then I want to polish (if possible) and wax the car as best I can by hand. Taking on all this advice, I'll get the grit guard buckets (I already had those on my list), I'll order those towels (Are they for washing or just drying, or both?), and I'll throw away my shammy and towels.

Surely not everyone on here who wants to take care of their paint goes the whole hog with all the machines, right? I mean, is it impossible to polish to any extent without a machine? Is the below statement really true?:

So, no machine means no polishing - to ANY extent? Is that how it is?

If so then I guess I'll keep my swirls for now, and just clean, clay then wax the car and maintain it as it is right now until I'm ready to go to Junkman-levels of perfection.

But I feel that statement is a little too black-and-white. Is there no grey area? If I CAN achieve some degree of polishing by hand - without damaging the clear coat - then that's all I want to achieve for now. Again, that's for now.

Can I use SwirlX by hand? Is the Adam's Swirl remover much better? If so, would it then be ill-advised to use the Megs Tech Wax after the Adams polish? Also, the Tech Wax came with a little buffer pad in the box. Is that garbage too?

I'll get those towels you suggested - but which towels should I use for each stage: Wash, dry, polish, wax?

And Claying - it seems pretty easy and non-invasive. After using a clay bar on a spot, I just wipe clear with detail spray and drying cloth, right?

That'll do me for now.

Again, please don't think you've wasted your time, or that I'm dismissing your expertise. I will come back to this thread, now bookmarked, and go for that perfect finish in a few months, and I can't thank you enough for taking the time to provide me with such extensive information.

Junkman2008

Here's the deal with polishing. First off, polishing is what makes the paint shine (NOT WAX, for those who may confused about that). Using a polish to remove haze, swirls and scratches in and on your paint results in the shine you want from your paint. The bottom line is that if you are using a polish product by hand, you are still polishing the paint. However, and this is a big however, how effective you are going to be at polishing the paint by hand totally depends on the condition of the paint that you are working on. Polishing paint by hand that is in the condition that you see on the Camaro that I posted earlier is a waste of time unless you are doing 20 to life and have nothing better to do.

So yes, you can polish paint by hand, but it is a waste of time unless the paint you are working on is damn near flawless to start with. That's the deal on polishing by hand.

SwirlX is a polish. Yes you can use it by hand. It is not all that effective when used with a machine so you really diminish its effectiveness when you use it by hand.

The towels that I directed you too are only for removing polish and wax. NOTHING ELSE. They are NOT drying towels, and I don't use them with quick detailers because they just drink up the quick detailer and push it around. Waffle weave towels are made for working with liquids, be that drying the car or using a quick detailer. They suck up water and you can use a small towel to dry a car once you use the pooling rinse technique to substantially dry the car.

Yes, but you need to polish paint after claying because claying will leave the paint slightly dull looking, unless you clay like a pansy. When you see me clay, you know that the paint is clean of all contamination, however, you will need to polish the paint to bring the ultimate shine back.

Hey, I appreciate the fact that you are true to yourself as far as what you want to do and what is realistic for you. In no way do I feel dissed or as if I wasted my time, as not only you will benefit from this thread. I am always more than willing to offer assistance and you can feel free to call on me at any time. I will be more than happy to offer any assistance.

__________________
"Marines - Making the other guy die for his country for over 200 years."

dad

Junkman2008, your knowledge, and politeness is priceless.

unless you are doing 20 to life and have nothing better to do. I'm still laughing at that!

__________________

We can do without any article of luxury we have never had; but once obtained, it is not in human nature to surrender it voluntary.

Junkman2008

You made me laugh out loud! But really, if you have ever tried to get some swirls out of paint by hand, it's like doing federal time! I tried it on a small spot and after about 2 minutes, I was sweating like Rosanne Barr's armpits in the summertime!

__________________
"Marines - Making the other guy die for his country for over 200 years."

Super Tanooki

Hey man, thanks for the advice. I didn't mean any offense by questioning your advice, I just need to make sure of these things, y'know?



So, I mean, my paint's not THAT bad. It's still super young. I just kinda thought a little by-hand polishing would just buff out a few of the finer swirls - make it less noticeable.

But if it does more harm than good maybe I won't bother until I get the machines. And if Clay bar-ing has a dulling effect and I can't return to a shine with by-hand polishing, again, maybe I'll just leave it.

Oh well. Just a two-bucket wash then.

Oh, and I just got caught in the rain. When this happens, do you guys just park it in the garage and let it dry normally, or do you make efforts to dry it off? I know just taking a towel to it would be bad because the water will be full of dirt right now...

dad

Where are the towels, that Adam's sells manufactured?

__________________

We can do without any article of luxury we have never had; but once obtained, it is not in human nature to surrender it voluntary.

Xan

Korea

__________________

dad

Are you serious?

__________________

We can do without any article of luxury we have never had; but once obtained, it is not in human nature to surrender it voluntary.

tomnavone

That's how they justify $15 for a towel

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Junkman2008

It's more like that's where any quality microfiber towel is being made today, if not in the USA (to which I don't know of any). The only difference is that if they were made in the USA, they'd cost more.

Here's the deal Dad. You can keep using those cheap, made in China towels (if that's what you're using) and anyone who doesn't have a clue wouldn't blame you. Or, you can believe me when I say that the Korean made towels are of superior quality compared to the China made towels. You should know that I speak the truth from the many repair threads and videos that I have done. I have proven my knowledge level through both. There is also one other thing you can do. You can buy the towels from Adam's and feel them side by side with those cheap ones for yourself. Then YOU can be the judge. If what I say isn't true, send them back for 110% of your money back. That's right, Adam will pay you to unplug yourself from the Matrix. You don't have to take my word. If what I say is NOT true, repost in this thread and call me a bold faced lie. I will not criticize or respond negatively in any way. That's how confident I am.

There it is. Are you up for the challenge or do you want to take my word instead?

__________________
"Marines - Making the other guy die for his country for over 200 years."