True coilover "supporting" mods
 

Will I need all the other suspension components such as camber arms, toe arms, the eccentric lockout kit and end links after converting to a true coilover in the rear or can I stay with all the stock suspension components for now and upgrade them later?

The control arm components are dependent of the height, not the strut assembly design. If you are lowering (or raising) you car, the camber gain and toe settings changing respective to this. 1/2 inch to 1 inch won't really require all the goodies unless you just want them or are trying to reduce bushing deflection (in this case just get harder bushings).

So NO, you don't have too, but if you want to keep your alignment settings within a reasonable degree, YES you should. Larger tires and wheels with higher offsets will naturally inset the wheel and decrease the SR values. This will nominally offset scrub from negative camber gains. But that is another cost evaluation, in most cases i think such a set of tire/wheels will cost just as much as the control arm pieces.

At best UPPER control arms is the most beneficial in the front, and lower camber arms > toe links in the rear is a good starting point.

Adjustable endlinks is primarily to properly remove/engage pre-load on the ASB. This isn't as important for this suspension design (double A-arm), but very important on McPherson type struts (not on this car). But having too much pre-load will cause odd weight jacking issues which could create annoying taping over uneven roads and steering deflection.

OEM style v True style does not "require" anything, with one exception which I will mention below.

The reason why you should get adjustable arms in the back (Traction, camber, and toe arms is what they're typically called) is for your alignment tech to be able to adjust camber, caster, and toe after you change your ride height. After all, most people aren't getting coilovers to stay at stock height - if you change the height, you change the suspension geometry, which means you need an alignment.

Note that you don't just have to go to stock specs - full adjustability means you can set up your car for more aggressive types of driving. It also allows for much more aggressive wheel fitment.

Back to true v OEM style coilovers, you will need different lower arms
If you go with "true" style, you want these:
Adjustable Rear Toe Arms for the Nissan 370Z and Infiniti G37 | SPL Parts
Obviously, with the spring around the strut you do not need a spring bucket on the arm, and this eliminates it.

If you go with "oem" style, you want these:
Rear Adjustable Toe Midlinks for the 370Z and G37 | SPL Parts
Because they have a spring bucket

The lockout kit works with either. What those do is right in the name - it eliminates the adjustment from the OEM eccentric bolts that were used for camber/toe. They slip over time. If you make them "fixed" (no adjustability), you eliminate that slip. The other arms then give you adjustment in a different component in a better controlled manner.

Because our cars do not have full ad justment ability front and rear, and limited range where there is any, a full setup (from SPL because they are the best) makes a huge difference. It is expensive, sure, but opens up a massive range of possibilities to let you do things to your car

i did it to get cool wheels and look pretty in a parking lot
others did it to go faster around a track

either way, you can do everything

Your final question:
GET EVERYTHING AT ONCE. it's better to save up and get all the components (arms, coilovers). Then your shop can get the car up and throw it all on together, and do an alignment
otherwise you're looking a multiple alignments - wasted effort.

also, if u can, figure out what wheels you want to run so u can account for that as well.
i would have done it but for the massive five month wait between stuff arriving. i put the coilovers and alignment on and got a quick street alignment near stock settings with stock wheels, then when my wheels came i got a more comprehensive one where we took the time to fine tune (and also roll the fenders)

Thanks for the insight and great information looks like I'll be saving for a little longer.

Which coil-overs you planning on getting? Depending on how low you go. Will depend on what parts you need. If you stay close to stock height. You may not need anything. But if you want parts. SPL is your best bet.

I apologize for hijackng the thread but I have a question regarding the rear toe arms. I just purchased Hotchkis sway bars, KW V3 coilovers, SPL fuca's, SPL rear camber arms and SPL front and rear end links. So, I'll need the SPL toe arms also? I'm not sure how low I'm going to go but at least an inch all the way around.
Thanks

Need - no.... Highly recommended - yes. Setting toe values is significantly more important than camber. But adding the toe arms adds a level of complexity that will make tire wear worse with incorrect values. The oem toe arm will allow more articulation with the rubber bushings. The stiffer bushing/inserts will not. As such the tire has a greater chance of scrubing through the corner. Adding to the fact you got some of the stiffest asb's on the market, tire wear is going to increase tenfold if you don't align/corner balance the car to perfection.

Thanks for the info. I want to do this right. I'll get them ordered.

One more question. Since I'll be installing KW's which aren't a true coilover and if I'm going to use the SPL toe arms, would they be taking the place of toe bolts and elogating the holes on the stock control arm mounts? I'm a little confused.

There aren't any conflicts with running toe arms. The coilover variation is irrelevant.

Wait...you can't use OEM-style coilovers with the SPL rear toe arms. You need to retain the spring bucket. You'll need SPC toe bolts and an SPL lockout kit would be helpful.

Okay, now I'm really confused :confused:

The rear toe arms replace the spring buckets for those switching to true-type coilovers. Alternatively, you could use the SPL mid links but you might have to go with Swift springs or something that fits within the mid links adjustable buckets.

Otherwise, the only other alternative is toe bolts? I'm curious what other KW users have done for toe adjustment.

did you read what i wrote?

True coilovers = toe arm

OEM style = mid links

the difference between true and oem is where the spring is, so obviously if the spring is around the shock, you don't need the spring bucket and you just get the toe arm

if you are OEM type you need the bucket, which means you get the mid-links that have a bucket

ALSO

note that the SPL mid-link uses 60mm (2.5 inch) spring diameter. I dont think KW springs fit, you will need to call SPL and get some swift springs with the proper diameter

If you intend on using the KWs, you just need to decide whether you want to use the KW springs (in which case you'll need toe bolts) or ditch the KW springs and go with some 2.5" ID springs and the SPL mid links. Make sure to select springs with appropriate spring rates to work with the KW dampers if that's the route you choose. The second option is considerably more expensive.

I did read what you wrote but then I got conflicting info from another poster, that's why I was trying to clarify it. Now I know that you are correct. :rock: I didn't understand the difference between what a true coilover and what the KW's are.

Yeah, I'll just go toe bolts. It's too bad the SPL mid links don't work with the KW springs (or should I say it's too bad the KW springs don't work with the SPL mid links).

My apologies for the confusion, i thought you were talking about the toe arm "traction arm" as the adjuster linkage to replace.

It seemed pretty self explanatory you can't use the aftermarket "toe arm" with the oem style divorced spring combination. In that optionzero recommendations is what you need with a divorced spring coilover if you want to change camber and toe. But to be clear, the "toe arm" subsequently changes camber and toe simultaneously (more toe than camber), certainly if you are still using the oem traction arm in the front.

The odd thing i don't understand about the aftermarket kits, is why isn't there adjustable upper control arms. This would be extremely better for changing camber and using the lower arm to fine tune toe. Changing the lower control arm geometry effectively changes the wheel base and SR.

Just to be clear 2.5inch i.d springs and 60mm i.d springs are not the same. A 2.5inch however can be used on some 60mm perches, not vice versa. :tiphat:

Last note- if you do decide to get new springs, i highly recommend http://performanceshock.com/index.php?main_page=index or http://pitstopusa.com/

The guys at PSI are extremely helpful.

You are correct, 2.5 inches is actually 63.5 mm

SPL's own product listing says their mid links are made to accept 2.5 inch ID springs

the easiest way to do it is simply to order the springs from SPL at the same time.

Mike at SPL is a very knowledgeable and helpful guy, call him with any questions at the time of your order. He got my sorted when i realized my aragosta springs wouldn't fit. (Bulletproof actually didn't help me much . . . i even asked them specifically if the springs would fit the SPL arms)

I am concerned about the upper strut mount area on my g37 sedan with the true coilovers. Should I be worried? I know my Maxima back in the day had true coilovers in the rear so I don't see why this car couldn't?

Also what benefit does an aftermarket traction arm have (the rod in the frontward bottom part of the rear hubs)?

It keeps the tire from changing static toe under load. Toe-out on the outside wheel being the primary problem with decreased ride height and increased spring load. It also reduces yaw which generally comes from for/aft movements. The oem rubber bushings will probably absorb up to 2degrees alignment change. Downside is you will actually induce more will spin and faster more accurate sliding in the rear with the solid arms.

NOTE - adjusting traction arm length is an even more complex adjustment that will effectively change the wheel base as well as weight jack the car if unevenly set. This change in geometry can change front wheel caster which can lead to an assortment of other steering change.

The arguments you may see about "bumpsteer" is a lose one. The bumpsteer in the rear is independent to each wheel unlike bumpsteer on the steering wheels. So the overall impact of toe change with the oem arms will not suddenly change the steering load on the car. However the solid traction arms will change the amount of load transferred across the car and act more like a solid axle and increase bumpsteer, not reducing it. In most cases this isn't a good thing but will give you much faster and accurate steering feel, something the g37 can benefit from.

The g37 actually has a better ability to handle strut tower load than the 370z as it has an upper rear deck and backseat surround to absorb deformation. But i'm not saying its a good idea in either case. For those who've actually changed to a true coilover setup can speak on wether it works better and the amount of wear.

Some people who went with a true coil-over in the rear of the Z have not reported any problems that I know of. A couple have reinforced the upper mount area by finish welding the plate that was spot welded. most of these guys track.

To add on to what MaysEffect said. The stock rubber bushings have a lot of friction and deflection in them. By changing out to SPL parts. The suspension moves freer. There is no binding.

Not sure what you mean by freer, but in all cases the solid traction arm will reduce the amount of suspension change which would make things stiffer.

If you remove the spring and shock, disconnect the sway bar. There is enough friction in the stock bushings that they will hold the knuckle in place. And it's hard to move it by hand. If you replace the bushings with SPL parts. The knuckle will drop. And you can move it through it's arc by hand. Something that you can't do with the stock bushings.

gotcha. I'm not sure this means much though when you are taking into consideration 3000ibs of weight forced down on the wheels. The amount of friction is probably still less that the un-sprung weight of the wheel and spindle.

But of course, free floating bearings will have less static friction than rubber to rubber. :iagree:

Spherical bearings took alot of the numbest out of the handling. The car feels alot tighter. You can feel it more.

Good information about the traction rod, so if you have toe rods on the car should you adjust toe and then adjust the adjustable traction rod? That way toe can be where it needs to be before you lock it into place with the traction rod?

I think the most comprehensive adjustment (when changing out all the arms) should be to set the alignment fully inward (reset to full positive), then adjust the rods front to rear.

So traction arm first > camber arm > toe rod.

OR

remove the oem rods, match the length of the new rod to the old rod, then adjust the alignment accordingly using the same format as above.

If you use eccentric lockout kit from SPL. They put the alignment setting in the middle, or close to it.

Hey guys I completely forgot about this thread. I'm going to go with MCA Blue suspension with about a 2" drop what should I change while dropping the car so far I have made this list please add anything that I may have missed.
Z1 Rear Camber Arms
Z1 Upper Control Arms
Kinetix Traction arms
SPL Eccentric Lockout kit

You planning on doing any trackdays?

Eventually yes but for the next year or so mostly weekend/spirited driving. Does this affect anything?

Take pics of inner and outer edge of your tire after a Sunday drive.

Yes, it does affect the tires.

If the alignment is corrected why would it affect the tires?

To see where your contact patch is. And how big it is. Ideally, you want even wear and heat across the thread after a hard run. If it's on one section and not across the tire. You're not getting the most out of the tires. :driving:

I'm still trying to understand how this would come about if I have all the necessary components after the drop, unless I am missing something from my list above shouldn't it be aligned correctly to avoid uneven tyre wear?

After the drop. If you get it aligned close to stock specs. You shouldn't have any problems with wear. It when you start doing trackdays and getting faster. Then you may start making changes.

So using the following components with a 2" drop should make it possible to align back to stock specs with little to no issue? Anything I need to add?
Z1 Rear Camber Arms
Z1 Upper Control Arms
Kinetix Traction arms
SPL Eccentric Lockout kit