Nissan 370Z Forum
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Brakes & Suspension (http://www.the370z.com/brakes-suspension/)
-   -   Stiff Front Sway Bar Thoughts (http://www.the370z.com/brakes-suspension/121631-stiff-front-sway-bar-thoughts.html)

cloudofevil 08-24-2017 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3688030)

Reducing body roll in the form of a stiffer sway bar doesn't reduce camber curve however
Right, it reduces how far through the camber curve the suspension travels. Enough body roll and camber starts to increase.

MaysEffect 08-24-2017 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudofevil (Post 3688037)
Right, it reduces how far through the camber curve the suspension travels. Enough body roll and camber starts to increase.
Agreed, but if you use a stiffer sway bar alone you are increasing the load on the outer tire. This is no better of a solution then allowing a higher level of camber gain, certainly if you already have a small amount of static camber (-1.5 degrees or less).

The tire sidewall is going to start to roll over more with the increased load and then you still end up sliding more. Most sway bars on the market increase the roll stiffness by over 20%, in some cases as much as 100%. This is most likely greater than going up a spring rate compared to the oem springs. At this point its really up to the driver how they manage tire heat. with increased roll stiffness you will be heating the outer tire significantly more.

cloudofevil 08-25-2017 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3688041)
Agreed, but if you use a stiffer sway bar alone you are increasing the load on the outer tire.
But not necessarily in proportion. Which is way adding a stiffer sway bar to the front of certain vehicles like the Z and M3 is a good solution to reduce understeer.

MaysEffect 08-25-2017 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudofevil (Post 3688154)
But not necessarily in proportion. Which is way adding a stiffer sway bar to the front of certain vehicles like the Z and M3 is a good solution to reduce understeer.
Ok, but how much stiffer? 25% stiffer? 75%?

It's directly proportional to how stiff the bar is compared to the spring rate and corner weight. Its all guess work unless the manufacturer of the asb states exactly how much force it takes to bend the bar, which absolutely no one does. At max, some companies may give you a percentage compared to oem. If you get a bar that has a greater resistance to bending than the spring rate, you may end up exerting too much force on the tires. This again goes back to the level of grip the tires can make. You may reduce the sensation of roll, but this doesn't garranty more grip. Where it may give an increased level of force to overcome traction loss, you run the risk of overloading the tire at the limit and having a sudden loss of traction when the tire lets go, compared to a gradual loss of traction. I personally wouldn't do this change alone unless i have a tire that can support a higher load rating. Presumably double that of the corner weight.

But i think we all can agree, the first modification to ever be done is tires. Only then should you decide to change the ASB and/or spring rate.

cloudofevil 08-25-2017 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3688169)
Ok, but how much stiffer? 25% stiffer? 75%?

It's directly proportional to how stiff the bar is compared to the spring rate and corner weight. Its all guess work unless the manufacturer of the asb states exactly how much force it takes to bend the bar, which absolutely no one does. At max, some companies may give you a percentage compared to oem. If you get a bar that has a greater resistance to bending than the spring rate, you may end up exerting too much force on the tires. This again goes back to the level of grip the tires can make. You may reduce the sensation of roll, but this doesn't garranty more grip. Where it may give an increased level of force to overcome traction loss, you run the risk of overloading the tire at the limit and having a sudden loss of traction when the tire lets go, compared to a gradual loss of traction. I personally wouldn't do this change alone unless i have a tire that can support a higher load rating. Presumably double that of the corner weight.

But i think we all can agree, the first modification to ever be done is tires. Only then should you decide to change the ASB and/or spring rate.
Sorry I meant the benefit of staying lower in the camber curve and the detriment of increasing the outside tire load are not necessarily in proportion. I think in the case of the Z it's better to increase the front roll rate even with the increase in lateral load transfer across the front axle. And yes, tires are the most important upgrade.

SeeThruHead 05-25-2022 06:39 PM
I always come back to this thread when trying to understand sway bar stiffness on the Z.

I found this today that seems directly related to the conversation.


From the pages of High Performance Handling Handbook by Don Alexander:

"There are situations where increasing the stiffness of an anti-roll bar will have the opposite effect. Most stock vehicles have excessive understeer because it is easier to control and provides more stability for the average driver than a vehicle that oversteers. A big part of this comes from excessive body roll, which induces too much camber change, and a good portion of the front tire contact patches loses contact with the road.
In this instance, adding a stiffer front anti-roll bar, which would typically increase the extreme understeer, actually reduces the understeer by reducing the body roll-induced camber change. The front tires now stay in better contact with the road surface, creating more traction and reducing understeer."

Averying 05-25-2022 07:22 PM
Good find!! I’m a nerd for learning more about suspension geometry and race car chassis setups so I love this stuff.

Found the post that explains this well. j-rho explains it better than me. See his post here: http://www.the370z.com/3023040-post10.html

It’s not that a front bar gives more grip… a stiffer bar actually asks MORE of the outside loaded tires… but the tire is kept in a better range of the camber curve which outweighs the increased load, and therefore more grip!

filip00 08-26-2022 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3687962)
The Z is not the only exception. Almost every car with a greater front weight bias has a larger front bar. The wrong information has been spread over the past decade that the rear bar should be enlarged for a plethora of wrong reasons. In reality the only reason the bars should be increased is if you have a significant increase in torque or increase in weight and or spring rate.

Most cars understeer from either having too much weight on the nose, or not enough at speed, this is why a 50/50 weight balance is ideal or slightly rearward (48f/52r). Under braking and lateral forces, weight shifts forward and outward increasing load on the front tires. Too much load and you overload the tires and lose traction, too little and the tires won't grip. This balancing act is the most critical aspect of design.

The Z has more weight on the front axle, no where near the levels of a Subaru or VW. But combined with smaller tires, you get a loss of traction from tire overload. There isn't anything funky about the suspension design or alignment that would cause additional understeer.

Increasing sway bar size is rather compromising unless you're increasing the spring rate or the amount of lateral load (increased g forces from bigger, stickier tires). Adding a larger bar with the same factory tires will just increase the load on the outter tire and reduce the contact patch on the inner tire. This is no bueno, thus the plethora of complaints of understeer.

Adding a larger front bar will reduce roll as intended with increased lateral load or additional weight (downforce). Increasing the rear bar causes a cross weighting effect that will transfer additional load to the inner front wheel, sharpening steering response and tire grip. The downside being increased instability and increased load on the outter rear tire. The trade offs are vast if you aren't actually increasing tire grip and load capacity.
This, I think is the crucial thing to consider when upgrading sway bars. If you have a Z with a staggered setup, everything stock, car will be prone to understeer, that's how it's setup. To reduce it, you could either go with a square setup which will definitely help with the understeer, or you could stiffen up the rear ARB, which will do just as you said - cross weighting effect, transferring the load from the read outer wheel to the inner front wheel, where all of a sudden, most of the understeer is just completely gone.

Also, driving a simulator nearly daily, I fiddled around with various setups and if there isn't any change to the spring rates and dampers, if you leave everything stock, and if the car is understeer prone, the easiest way to remedy it quickly is to stiffen the rear ARB.

geeteezee 08-26-2022 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by filip00 (Post 4029108)
If you have a Z with a staggered setup, everything stock, car will be prone to understeer, that's how it's setup.
I was under the impression that our cars were more prone to oversteer.

Spooler 08-26-2022 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeteezee (Post 4029142)
I was under the impression that our cars were more prone to oversteer.
Undertsteer is correct unless you have a Nismo. They are pretty darn neutral out of the box. The V1 Nismo's. I have never driven a V2 Nismo.

Rusty 08-26-2022 10:04 PM
Hotchkiss sway bar on the front. If you are square. You can eliminate the rear bar. If stagger, use a rear bar.

filip00 08-27-2022 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeteezee (Post 4029142)
I was under the impression that our cars were more prone to oversteer.
Actually not at all. Best example is if you try to do a slalom in slower/moderate speeds. The car will understeer quite a lot way before the rear will snap out. If you put a rear sway bar, suddently the nose feels pointy and precise and no more understeer. I was quite amazed at the difference it made, immediately reminded me of most sporty versions of bmw (saying this because I have most experience with them).

AH370Z 08-29-2022 02:34 AM
I fitted a front whiteline sway bar with 2 settings, swift springs oem shocks oem 19" tyre sizes and Michelin Piot 4S tyres.

I asked whiteline how much stiffer over oem and soft is approx 30% and hard is 65% I tried the hard setting and the car just wanted to understeer too much. Simple test was perform quick U turn, hit the gas trying to spin the car around and it just understeered.

I simply cannot understand how some run the much stiffer bars up front 100-130% stiffer whatever it is. Just tells me majority simply do not drive the cars hard enough (which is fine) so all they are feeling is the stiffer setup and less roll, but if actually drove the car agressivly they would end up pushing.

filip00 08-29-2022 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH370Z (Post 4029256)
I fitted a front whiteline sway bar with 2 settings, swift springs oem shocks oem 19" tyre sizes and Michelin Piot 4S tyres.

I asked whiteline how much stiffer over oem and soft is approx 30% and hard is 65% I tried the hard setting and the car just wanted to understeer too much. Simple test was perform quick U turn, hit the gas trying to spin the car around and it just understeered.

I simply cannot understand how some run the much stiffer bars up front 100-130% stiffer whatever it is. Just tells me majority simply do not drive the cars hard enough (which is fine) so all they are feeling is the stiffer setup and less roll, but if actually drove the car agressivly they would end up pushing.

Spot on. If you do the same test you mentioned with a stiff rear sway, your *** will be overtaking you immediately.

Rusty 08-29-2022 03:43 AM
The stiff front sway bar was tested by Doren Racing. When they ran a 370RC in the Pirelli Cup. Their race driver was a member on here. Dwnshift, pro driver. And others have proven that it works. I, for one. I'm a Class C driver.

AH370Z 08-29-2022 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 4029261)
The stiff front sway bar was tested by Doren Racing. When they ran a 370RC in the Pirelli Cup. Their race driver was a member on here. Dwnshift, pro driver. And others have proven that it works. I, for one. I'm a Class C driver.
Maybe so for a track setup on R compounds and square setup tyres. Front stiff bar on street setup is not ideal.

filip00 08-29-2022 05:40 AM
This is probably the best explanation of sway bar impact on a normal car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFGkZNrNTIE&t=12m16s
(annotated to the main point at 12min 16sec, no need to watch it all, but I recommend)

gomer_110 08-29-2022 05:33 PM
I always love when this topic comes up from an entertainment standpoint although this time, I'll just sit back and not feed the trolls. :drama:

AH370Z 08-29-2022 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomer_110 (Post 4029298)
I always love when this topic comes up from an entertainment standpoint although this time, I'll just sit back and not feed the trolls. :drama:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomer_110 (Post 3986215)
The 370's need the stiffest front sway bar you can find to improve the handling. The Hotchkis is just a stiffer bar than the Eibach.

There is no sway bar offered for our car that will make the ride quality so bad you wouldn't drive it on the street. The only reason mine doesn't see more street driving is the custom front splitter that would get damaged by many of the roads in my area.
I'm not going to enter into a debate I'm simply highlighting that in my real world experience with one of the best street tyres you can run, a street setup suspension with oem stagger. I have proven that with a whiteline bar on stiffest setting which is no where near as stiff as hotchkis, understeers like a pig. I will go as far as to say if anyone who actually attempted to go around a tight corner in the wet with some speed would surly be off into the ditch or oncoming traffic. Unfortunatly what I see on forums is too much advise that is just regurgitated from what they have read from others and very little from real world experience. I'm not saying you dont have any but if we just focus on the above scenario and setups which most are running it's not ideal in my opinion

SeeThruHead 08-29-2022 06:55 PM
https://youtu.be/H7uALgGvXvw?t=692
https://youtu.be/H7uALgGvXvw?t=824
he's running 14k 6k(true)
he was running hotchkiss front and rear, going back to oem rear.

Averying 08-29-2022 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH370Z (Post 4029300)
I'm not going to enter into a debate I'm simply highlighting that in my real world experience with one of the best street tyres you can run, a street setup suspension with oem stagger. I have proven that with a whiteline bar on stiffest setting which is no where near as stiff as hotchkis, understeers like a pig. I will go as far as to say if anyone who actually attempted to go around a tight corner in the wet with some speed would surly be off into the ditch or oncoming traffic. Unfortunatly what I see on forums is too much advise that is just regurgitated from what they have read from others and very little from real world experience. I'm not saying you dont have any but if we just focus on the above scenario and setups which most are running it's not ideal in my opinion

Good for you for testing the sway bars for yourself and not assuming everything you see on these forums is correct. Most car info online is incorrect nowadays… although the tips and tricks from OG members on here is usually safe to trust!

I’m in the process of figuring out my sway bar setup for myself. Hotchis rear bar felt too stiff, running a few autox events without it. Will probably go back to OEM rear bar


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rusty 08-29-2022 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomer_110 (Post 4029298)
I always love when this topic comes up from an entertainment standpoint although this time, I'll just sit back and not feed the trolls. :drama:
:iagree:

OptionZero 08-29-2022 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH370Z (Post 4029300)
I'm not going to enter into a debate I'm simply highlighting that in my real world experience with one of the best street tyres you can run, a street setup suspension with oem stagger. I have proven that with a whiteline bar on stiffest setting which is no where near as stiff as hotchkis, understeers like a pig. I will go as far as to say if anyone who actually attempted to go around a tight corner in the wet with some speed would surly be off into the ditch or oncoming traffic. Unfortunatly what I see on forums is too much advise that is just regurgitated from what they have read from others and very little from real world experience. I'm not saying you dont have any but if we just focus on the above scenario and setups which most are running it's not ideal in my opinion
Camber adjustment in front?

With stock nonadjustable arms, you’re understeering

AH370Z 08-29-2022 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029326)
Camber adjustment in front?

With stock nonadjustable arms, you’re understeering
Exactly so why would you run a stiff bar thats only going to exagerate that.

With my setup I was running Swift springs in front which naturally brought the front camber to -1.5. It still understeered untill I went from stiffest to softest on the whiteline bar

OptionZero 08-30-2022 11:01 AM
Ok hold on
You’re gonna modify your car for handling

But you’re doing a sway bar and NOT adjustable arms?

This kinda undermines your experience doesn’t it?

Any that gives a **** about the effect of a sway bar should be at least optimizing front camber through alignment

Everyone that does regular track driving here is running around 3 degrees of camber

The stock alignment is WOEFULLY conservative

The reason why a stiff front bar can actually improve front grip is because the front suspension is so soft from the factory it needs the stiffer bar AND camber to stay planted

You’re bringing an amateur setup to this discussion and surprised your experience differs from others?

AH370Z 08-30-2022 06:57 PM
No, Who is talking about Track setups? I'm not and the OP asked if the stiff front bar is good for any situation or only track and there are responses like "It's good for any situation when you turn your car hard" I chimed in with my experience focusing on street setup, good street tyres and using a firm setting on my bar no where as stiff as most that get reccomended on here and it seems to have upset the track junkies on here.

I do not need adjustable arms up front, the springs alone got me to -1.5 which was good enough at the time and since adding Koni yellows and replacing all the bushes in the FUCA incuding a double offset for the inner, this has gained me another -0.5 of camber so I am running -2.0 up front which is plenty for my agressive targa tarmac style of driving that I do.

Youtube Targa Tasmania and watch some clips. There is a reason participants are warned to leave their circuit racing mentality at the door. Track and Street racing are completly different and a stiff setup is the last thing you want unless you want to end up in a ditch.

Spooler 08-30-2022 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH370Z (Post 4029300)
I'm not going to enter into a debate I'm simply highlighting that in my real world experience with one of the best street tyres you can run, a street setup suspension with oem stagger. I have proven that with a whiteline bar on stiffest setting which is no where near as stiff as hotchkis, understeers like a pig. I will go as far as to say if anyone who actually attempted to go around a tight corner in the wet with some speed would surly be off into the ditch or oncoming traffic. Unfortunatly what I see on forums is too much advise that is just regurgitated from what they have read from others and very little from real world experience. I'm not saying you dont have any but if we just focus on the above scenario and setups which most are running it's not ideal in my opinion
LOL, really. Drove mine for several years in the rain. No issues. We get torrential downpours where I live. I love to drive in the rain on the edge. Makes my day. You just have no idea what you are talking about or you just flat out can't drive.

AH370Z 08-30-2022 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 4029373)
LOL, really. Drove mine for several years in the rain. No issues. We get torrential downpours where I live. I love to drive in the rain on the edge. Makes my day. You just have no idea what you are talking about or you just flat out can't drive.
ok stig :tup:

OptionZero 08-30-2022 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH370Z (Post 4029368)
No, Who is talking about Track setups? I'm not and the OP asked if the stiff front bar is good for any situation or only track and there are responses like "It's good for any situation when you turn your car hard" I chimed in with my experience focusing on street setup, good street tyres and using a firm setting on my bar no where as stiff as most that get reccomended on here and it seems to have upset the track junkies on here.

I do not need adjustable arms up front, the springs alone got me to -1.5 which was good enough at the time and since adding Koni yellows and replacing all the bushes in the FUCA incuding a double offset for the inner, this has gained me another -0.5 of camber so I am running -2.0 up front which is plenty for my agressive targa tarmac style of driving that I do.

Youtube Targa Tasmania and watch some clips. There is a reason participants are warned to leave their circuit racing mentality at the door. Track and Street racing are completly different and a stiff setup is the last thing you want unless you want to end up in a ditch.
So many ******* things wrong about this post, where do I start?

Street racing isn’t condoned here, and for normal daily driving who gives a **** about sway bar balance? At normal speeds, it doesn’t matter, you aren’t getting groceries any quicker.

A good coilovers setup won’t be “overly stiff” - the whole ******* point of spending money on coilovers to get adjustable height and damping AND better quality springs and dampers which are matched to each other AND YOUR INTENDED DRIVING STYLE. if you don’t know how to pick a good coilovers, there should be a suspension shop or manufacturer competent enough to do it for you

Adjusting camber with bushings and drop springs isn’t adjusting camber at all, you’re just randomly getting whatever spec is the side effect of lowering the car.

An adjustable front arm, specifically the SPL one, isn’t a “stiff setup’, it doesn’t affect stiffness at all. Maybe more feedback front replacing a bushing that may be worn, and going from rubber to metal, but the point is to be able to set your camber or caster to whatever you need.

Furthermore, the original post is from 2017. This thread has very clearly turned in a more track oriented discussion, YOU decided to weigh in with a perspective clearly limited in understanding of how suspension parts work and your own limitations as a driver

If you really think slapping a stiff front bar will suddenly turn your car into a death machin with snap oversteer, you’re just telling us you can’t ******* or are putting your self in suboptimal positions on purpose

OptionZero 08-30-2022 08:17 PM
For **** and giggles I looked up Targa Tasmania. Guess how they describe themselves?

With a proud history dating back to 1992, our reputation has been built on our ability to deliver high quality, professional tarmac rally events and driving experiences in unique and iconic Australian destinations. TARGA gives you closed roads, greater distance and an extraordinary sense of achievement.

We bring energy and excitement to everything we do, and consistently meet all required international safety standards. We show the utmost respect to our people, partners and customers and don’t compromise on this, no matter what.

TARGA deliver both competitive races and non-competitive touring events, sanctioned by Australia’s peak motor racing authority Motorsport Australia. TARGA includes tarmac rally events in Victoria’s High Country, Cairns in Far North Queensland and the longest and hardest tarmac rally in the world, in Tasmania.

So the thing you cite is….a racing authority that runs closed road events? And from YouTube videos, it sure looks like it has a shitload of high end cars that are running better than your lowering spring and bushing setup.

BettyZ 08-30-2022 09:13 PM
Love how OptionZero comes in with her renowned people skills and queefs a vagload of dumbass all over the thread.

SeeThruHead 08-30-2022 10:06 PM
fwiw
I think adding a hotchkiss front bar for my recent track days did not help understeer at all.

I need more track days with some different bar setups to really tell for sure.
But with stock tires, stock suspension and a hotchkiss front bar: The car was incredibly understeer prone.
Don't think the back stepped out once.
This could be explained away by driver error.

BUUUT. Sway bars are not expensive, and not hard to swap. So might as well have a couple different sets.

Obviously we know from all the actual track drivers, it's a much different story on track with proper track alignment.

But if I was building a car for daily canyon driving, on softish springs and PS4S. I think I would end up with a more balanced set of sway bars.

Spooler 08-30-2022 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH370Z (Post 4029374)
ok stig :tup:
No, just a Georgia Redneck who loves to drive.

Rusty 08-30-2022 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeThruHead (Post 4029380)
fwiw
I think adding a hotchkiss front bar for my recent track days did not help understeer at all.

I need more track days with some different bar setups to really tell for sure.
But with stock tires, stock suspension and a hotchkiss front bar: The car was incredibly understeer prone.
Don't think the back stepped out once.
This could be explained away by driver error.

BUUUT. Sway bars are not expensive, and not hard to swap. So might as well have a couple different sets.

Obviously we know from all the actual track drivers, it's a much different story on track with proper track alignment.

But if I was building a car for daily canyon driving, on softish springs and PS4S. I think I would end up with a more balanced set of sway bars.
Try this for alignment specs. It good for DD and track use. It won't chew the tires up.

Front
Camber -2, Caster +6, Toe in 1/16"
Rear
Camber -1.75, Toe in 1'16".

Over the years. I've tried about 20+ alignment settings.

OptionZero 08-31-2022 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BettyZ (Post 4029379)
Love how OptionZero comes in with her renowned people skills and queefs a vagload of dumbass all over the thread.
Seriously?

OptionZero 08-31-2022 02:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeThruHead (Post 4029380)
fwiw
I think adding a hotchkiss front bar for my recent track days did not help understeer at all.

I need more track days with some different bar setups to really tell for sure.
But with stock tires, stock suspension and a hotchkiss front bar: The car was incredibly understeer prone.
Don't think the back stepped out once.
This could be explained away by driver error.

BUUUT. Sway bars are not expensive, and not hard to swap. So might as well have a couple different sets.

Obviously we know from all the actual track drivers, it's a much different story on track with proper track alignment.

Track folks are running 275 or 285 (or more) in front
Nissan increased the front tire width on the new Z (And increased caster)

All this talk about how “stiff front bar still understeers” is missing the point. If you actually wanted to reduce understeer you’d go to the root of the problem

This is like having a leak roof and bitching about how a bucket isn’t stopping the house from getting wet

But if I was building a car for daily canyon driving, on softish springs and PS4S. I think I would end up with a more balanced set of sway bars.
Your stock suspension and stock tired car understeers because that is how Nissan designed the car. You have the same problem as the other dude, you haven’t actually fixed the problem - insufficient front grip

More tire and more camber is the solution

No sway bar is gonna fix the issue

filip00 08-31-2022 02:58 AM
Quote:
If you really think slapping a stiff front bar will suddenly turn your car into a death machin with snap oversteer, you’re just telling us you can’t ******* or are putting your self in suboptimal positions on purpose
No, stiff front bar will do the opposite, it will amplify understeer, not oversteer.

filip00 08-31-2022 02:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029387)
Your stock suspension and stock tired car understeers because that is how Nissan designed the car. You have the same problem as the other dude, you haven’t actually fixed the problem - insufficient front grip

More tire and more camber is the solution

No sway bar is gonna fix the issue
That is incorrect. Rear sway bar will fix the issue, although just partly. The real solution is to also add the option to adjust front camber and set it between -1.5 and -2.

AH370Z 08-31-2022 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029375)
So many ******* things wrong about this post, where do I start?

Street racing isn’t condoned here, and for normal daily driving who gives a **** about sway bar balance? At normal speeds, it doesn’t matter, you aren’t getting groceries any quicker.

A good coilovers setup won’t be “overly stiff” - the whole ******* point of spending money on coilovers to get adjustable height and damping AND better quality springs and dampers which are matched to each other AND YOUR INTENDED DRIVING STYLE. if you don’t know how to pick a good coilovers, there should be a suspension shop or manufacturer competent enough to do it for you

Adjusting camber with bushings and drop springs isn’t adjusting camber at all, you’re just randomly getting whatever spec is the side effect of lowering the car.

An adjustable front arm, specifically the SPL one, isn’t a “stiff setup’, it doesn’t affect stiffness at all. Maybe more feedback front replacing a bushing that may be worn, and going from rubber to metal, but the point is to be able to set your camber or caster to whatever you need.

Furthermore, the original post is from 2017. This thread has very clearly turned in a more track oriented discussion, YOU decided to weigh in with a perspective clearly limited in understanding of how suspension parts work and your own limitations as a driver

If you really think slapping a stiff front bar will suddenly turn your car into a death machin with snap oversteer, you’re just telling us you can’t ******* or are putting your self in suboptimal positions on purpose
You make too many assumptions, you introduce coilovers into the discussion now while also making the point about my indended driving style. That is all I did in my previous messages which was to share MY experience with MY setup and MY driving style and you and a few others seem to have their knickers all twisted up about it. Now you want to critizise my camber setup. If I have no intention of going beyond -2 for front camber (which I dont) and a drop in spring height got me most of the way there and bushes I was doing anyway(for no other reason other to improve feel) got me the remaining -0.5 I will hapilly take it with money saved.

Oh and you say I am limited in understanding of how suspension parts work? Which you followed up with a dumb statement like
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029375)
If you really think slapping a stiff front bar will suddenly turn your car into a death machin with snap oversteer, you’re just telling us you can’t ******* or are putting your self in suboptimal positions on purpose
:confused: Not how it works sorry to say and pretty sure Ive been refering to understeer the whole time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029375)
So the thing you cite is….a racing authority that runs closed road events? And from YouTube videos, it sure looks like it has a shitload of high end cars that are running better than your lowering spring and bushing setup.
Again not sure what my setup has to do with this? Am I competing am I? again MY setup suited to MY driving and MY roads, you have no clue about that and the point of the videos was to illustrate that with the type of roads we have down here which are not ideal on a stiff setup.

Your ignorance and attitude is not worth anymore of my time on this discussion. Good day to you.

BettyZ 08-31-2022 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029386)
Seriously?
Yes. You have the social skills of a chainsaw that ran out of Copenhagen two days ago.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:51 PM.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2