Originally Posted by frost

yeah, just because one pays under invoice doesn't mean they are stealing from the dealer. Your average car buyer negotiates a car deal every few years, whereas the car people do this 10-20 times a day. No one is going to steel from the dealer, they make it back somehow. This is truth 100% of the time, no matter how much they tell you about "how you're robbing them blind" as you sign the paperwork.