Nissan 370Z Forum - View Single Post - Custom ported and CNC throttle bodies, upper and lower manifolds by Synergy Composite

R/T Tuning · 07-17-2014, 11:03 AM

Scott, normally we don't respond to situations like this, but your last email to us was out of line (as well as some other things you have posted). I have to say this is probably the first time that someone who isn't even a customer of ours has taken issue with the quality of the work we perform and the services we provide.

So just the clear up any confusion that comes from a one sided story, here is our emails so far:

Scott : 07/15/2014 7:14am
"hi,
i need a tune for a 13 370z. im NA with a new CAI that will need the MAF scaled. i tune subis but i dont feel like buying the uprev tuner pack as im tired of messing with my own stuff and ive never done a VVEL before. i see you charge $200 an hour plus im sure there is something for the license fee. i am wondering if you could work out some kind of deal with me though. im trying to show the community what certain NA mods will get people. Im porting the lower and upper manifold and the throttle bodies with the butterfly plate shaft profiled. also since the TB\'s are bigger im going from the OEM 2.35\" MAF size up to 2.63\". im buying peoples OEM stuff and having the work done with a core return. after the tune is complete id like to pop off parts to show a before and after type of thing. if youre not interested and will charge the full $200 a hour then its not worth it to me. i have a before dyno at a local shop and ill just get tuned by you guys and drive back to show a before and after on the original dyno. But as you can tell thats not very scientific as ive added 4 new parts and tune so only way for people to duplicate is to do everything i did.
Thanks
Scott

Our response: 07/15/2014 1:12pm:
Hello Scott,
The standard dyno rate of $200 would apply to a service such as this.
The Uprev dyno license is $300 for the basic reflash license.
Tuning an NA setup will typically take about 2 hours so figure on about $400 in dyno time for a full tune.
If we can help you out please let us know

Scott: 07/15/14 6:49pm:
Erik thanks for the reply. But I have to say, like I said, I tune subis. I've worked with IPS motorsports for 5 years and a friend that taught me to tune and tunes nissans for them just left for California 2 days ago. I know the Uprev license is only $150. I don't see why you guys are doubling the price. I'd feel better if you told me the labor was more. You be upset if I charged you double for 2x4's to build you a house when you could just go Home Depot and buy them yourself right? My total at IPS would of been $450 if he didn't just leave ($150 license, $100 dyno rental, $200 to tune) but that's for me, everyone else was $500 all day everyday. $700 isn't out of this world but its a lot more than I wanted plus you guys are 8hrs away so you'll have to do something to earn my business. I've seen on the forums you guys advertise $525 as a sale, that'd be worth it I guess if Vince is really as good as I've read. Again I'm coming from 8hrs away, I can look else where if need be.
Scott
Sent from my iPhone

Our response: 07/16/14 10:58am:
I understand where you are coming from Scott. I don't think we are a good fit for what you need.
Best of luck with the testing.
Thanks,

Scott: 07/16/14 11:05am
So you can't honor a deal at $525 you did for others just a few weeks ago? My one thread alone has 9,600 views of people waiting to see a NA Z make more power. If I owned a business I'd think that'd be worth just $175 to reach out to a lot more people as I'll brag when I'm done giving you guys props. Maybe you could run this by Vince so he could have a say? I'm only trying to support my community and I'd hope you'd want to also.
Thanks
Scott
Sent from my iPad

Our response: 07/16/2014 3:58pm
I spoke to Vince who is the owner here and does all of the Uprev tuning and he told me he is very specific with when he runs that special and he is not willing to extend it as we ran it for an extra month already in the spring due to the overwhelming response.
Again, best of luck with your testing!

Scott: 07/16/14 9:51pm
That's fine. I will be ranting about this on the forums though. I can promise at least one person will agree with me though and find a new shop if they had you in mind. Even if its only one person out of a million that's worth it to me as you guys couldn't come off your high horse for $175, you just lost another persons tune money. You guys aren't tuning any better than any other shop but you post STD number to make people think so. Over $700 is a complete rip off! I hope selling tunes at that price works for you since I can guarantee you'd sell more and make more if you were lower in price as it'd bring more people in. As you said, you had a "overwhelming response." You must like not being as busy the rest of the year.
Sent from my iPad

Our response: 07/17/2014 9:27am
To be quite Frank with you it is not over $175. It is over your attitude and the way you have spoken to us over the course of this conversation that has made us not want to work with you. If you had been as polite in return as I have been to you and had not acted like you know everything this conversation would likely have turned out differently.
Our track record online an customer reviews speak to our tunes, how happy our customers are, and how busy we remain 12 months out of the year.
Best of luck in your endeavors.

ill try to address some of the "issues" that you have, i don't have time for all of them:

1. uprev license price: their retail price on that is $300. that is what we charge, and that is what it has been for along time. The $150 cost of the license is incorrect, however that was a deal they offered at one time several years ago at sema if you bought 20+ licenses at once. They did this so they could help raise more money to grow their business and develop products. That is no longer the cost of a license, not that that is any of your business. If someone does have some left over licenses from several years ago that they still have not used, and wants to sell them at a discounted rate, thats their choice. We however blew through those licenses in a matter of weeks.

2. we cant honor the $525 special: Its a limited time offer.That's what makes a sale special. 1 time a year, every year, usually when the nice weather hits, we offer a discounted package price for NA tunes on VQ's. We do this because a lot of owners in our area put them away for the winter, and it gets people excited to bring them back out and modify them. Its always an overwhelming success and a great way to start off the "busy" season before all the car shows start, and before race season starts (we are more time starved after they begin , not only from the amount of work we have, but also we have sponsored and provided track support for some vehicles in formula d for the last 3 years) Regardless, its a sale, by nature it only lasts for a short period of time. You cant go to walmart today and demand black friday pricing on tv's, they wont honor it.

3. Our pricing in general : our normal labor rate is $105 per hour for what you call hard labor "Most shops labor rates are $100 and that's for HARD labor. Like pulling a transmission for a clutch or motor work" Seems we are right in line there. And while yes, it is hard labor, its something any mechanic should be able to do or at least attempt. Tuning is a different skill set and highly specialized, that pays a different wage (thats also why theres not thousands of them between here and ohio). Our 2wd dyno tuning rate is $200 per hour, our awd tuning rate is $225 per hour. (we have both a 2wd dynojet and an awd mustang dyno".
Our rates are very competitive with our market place, we usually have a 3-4 week wait this time of year for new appointments. While we appreciate your input on how to run our business, we are and have been growing over the last 10 years (we now have 11 FT employees and a 25000 sqft shop), and we are doing just fine. And yes the equipment cost is part of the reason for the labor being different. The equipment is a big investment. Notice that last word "investment". When we bought our first dyno several years ago the market wasn't saturated with used dynos from closed and unsuccessful shops, so we bought new. And we charge what we charge, it seems to work just fine. So we see no need to change that.
Another factor that may be skewing your perception of us is where you our from. The cost of living is significantly lower in columbus ohio. Not that case in our area. Just check the housing market figures : Columbus Home Prices and Home Values - Zillow average home price <100k where we are : Montgomery County Home Prices and Home Values - Zillow literally 2.5x more expensive in our area. Perhaps if we went somewhere that was cheaper we could lower the prices, but again, we are competitive in our market (which we define as eastern PA, NJ and NY, where most of our customers come from.

4. i cant drive 8 hours for full price: that's ok, i wouldnt drive that far for something i claim to be very easy to do, and also able to do myself. again we wish you luck with whomever you use. However several people have driven further the same service you are asking for, they did so because they felt we were the best choice for their car, not the cheapest. We have customers from ohio, western pa, west virginia, northern new york, massachusetts, hell even canada (sup @galeforce !) Some of our customers drive several hours for normal service like exhaust work, or alignments. Hell, even @ak370 the owner of this whole forum made a several hour trip from Atlantic city to get his car aligned. Where we are located only seems to be a problem for you, not us.

Just an observation to think about: you mentioned your old tattoo shop.
A new artist starting out, who is new at his craft, will generally offer tattoos at a price point that is cheaper than a well established artist. They will do that to get some new business in and get people talking, and hopefully get some referrals. An established artist in that industry can charge as high as $200 a hour, and they have waiting lists that go on for months. Why? The guy who just started does the same thing right?
Like Erik, had mentioned, we are not interested in working with you regardless at this point, and i cant see why any professional in this industry would after you said "Why the **** do you think you're worth over $200 an hour to punch buttons?"
That statement is not only insulting to the 11 FT employees here at R/T, but to everyone in this great industry who takes pride in their job and occupation.
Again, best of luck to you in finding a tuner that fits your budget and geographical constraints.

07-17-2014, 11:03 AM	#239 (permalink)
R/T Tuning Base Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Lansdale PA Posts: 189 Drives: Nissan 370Z Rep Power: 15	Scott, normally we don't respond to situations like this, but your last email to us was out of line (as well as some other things you have posted). I have to say this is probably the first time that someone who isn't even a customer of ours has taken issue with the quality of the work we perform and the services we provide. So just the clear up any confusion that comes from a one sided story, here is our emails so far: Scott : 07/15/2014 7:14am "hi, i need a tune for a 13 370z. im NA with a new CAI that will need the MAF scaled. i tune subis but i dont feel like buying the uprev tuner pack as im tired of messing with my own stuff and ive never done a VVEL before. i see you charge $200 an hour plus im sure there is something for the license fee. i am wondering if you could work out some kind of deal with me though. im trying to show the community what certain NA mods will get people. Im porting the lower and upper manifold and the throttle bodies with the butterfly plate shaft profiled. also since the TB\'s are bigger im going from the OEM 2.35\" MAF size up to 2.63\". im buying peoples OEM stuff and having the work done with a core return. after the tune is complete id like to pop off parts to show a before and after type of thing. if youre not interested and will charge the full $200 a hour then its not worth it to me. i have a before dyno at a local shop and ill just get tuned by you guys and drive back to show a before and after on the original dyno. But as you can tell thats not very scientific as ive added 4 new parts and tune so only way for people to duplicate is to do everything i did. Thanks Scott Our response: 07/15/2014 1:12pm: Hello Scott, The standard dyno rate of $200 would apply to a service such as this. The Uprev dyno license is $300 for the basic reflash license. Tuning an NA setup will typically take about 2 hours so figure on about $400 in dyno time for a full tune. If we can help you out please let us know Scott: 07/15/14 6:49pm: Erik thanks for the reply. But I have to say, like I said, I tune subis. I've worked with IPS motorsports for 5 years and a friend that taught me to tune and tunes nissans for them just left for California 2 days ago. I know the Uprev license is only $150. I don't see why you guys are doubling the price. I'd feel better if you told me the labor was more. You be upset if I charged you double for 2x4's to build you a house when you could just go Home Depot and buy them yourself right? My total at IPS would of been $450 if he didn't just leave ($150 license, $100 dyno rental, $200 to tune) but that's for me, everyone else was $500 all day everyday. $700 isn't out of this world but its a lot more than I wanted plus you guys are 8hrs away so you'll have to do something to earn my business. I've seen on the forums you guys advertise $525 as a sale, that'd be worth it I guess if Vince is really as good as I've read. Again I'm coming from 8hrs away, I can look else where if need be. Scott Sent from my iPhone Our response: 07/16/14 10:58am: I understand where you are coming from Scott. I don't think we are a good fit for what you need. Best of luck with the testing. Thanks, Scott: 07/16/14 11:05am So you can't honor a deal at $525 you did for others just a few weeks ago? My one thread alone has 9,600 views of people waiting to see a NA Z make more power. If I owned a business I'd think that'd be worth just $175 to reach out to a lot more people as I'll brag when I'm done giving you guys props. Maybe you could run this by Vince so he could have a say? I'm only trying to support my community and I'd hope you'd want to also. Thanks Scott Sent from my iPad Our response: 07/16/2014 3:58pm I spoke to Vince who is the owner here and does all of the Uprev tuning and he told me he is very specific with when he runs that special and he is not willing to extend it as we ran it for an extra month already in the spring due to the overwhelming response. Again, best of luck with your testing! Scott: 07/16/14 9:51pm That's fine. I will be ranting about this on the forums though. I can promise at least one person will agree with me though and find a new shop if they had you in mind. Even if its only one person out of a million that's worth it to me as you guys couldn't come off your high horse for $175, you just lost another persons tune money. You guys aren't tuning any better than any other shop but you post STD number to make people think so. Over $700 is a complete rip off! I hope selling tunes at that price works for you since I can guarantee you'd sell more and make more if you were lower in price as it'd bring more people in. As you said, you had a "overwhelming response." You must like not being as busy the rest of the year. Sent from my iPad Our response: 07/17/2014 9:27am To be quite Frank with you it is not over $175. It is over your attitude and the way you have spoken to us over the course of this conversation that has made us not want to work with you. If you had been as polite in return as I have been to you and had not acted like you know everything this conversation would likely have turned out differently. Our track record online an customer reviews speak to our tunes, how happy our customers are, and how busy we remain 12 months out of the year. Best of luck in your endeavors. ill try to address some of the "issues" that you have, i don't have time for all of them: 1. uprev license price: their retail price on that is $300. that is what we charge, and that is what it has been for along time. The $150 cost of the license is incorrect, however that was a deal they offered at one time several years ago at sema if you bought 20+ licenses at once. They did this so they could help raise more money to grow their business and develop products. That is no longer the cost of a license, not that that is any of your business. If someone does have some left over licenses from several years ago that they still have not used, and wants to sell them at a discounted rate, thats their choice. We however blew through those licenses in a matter of weeks. 2. we cant honor the $525 special: Its a limited time offer.That's what makes a sale special. 1 time a year, every year, usually when the nice weather hits, we offer a discounted package price for NA tunes on VQ's. We do this because a lot of owners in our area put them away for the winter, and it gets people excited to bring them back out and modify them. Its always an overwhelming success and a great way to start off the "busy" season before all the car shows start, and before race season starts (we are more time starved after they begin , not only from the amount of work we have, but also we have sponsored and provided track support for some vehicles in formula d for the last 3 years) Regardless, its a sale, by nature it only lasts for a short period of time. You cant go to walmart today and demand black friday pricing on tv's, they wont honor it. 3. Our pricing in general : our normal labor rate is $105 per hour for what you call hard labor "Most shops labor rates are $100 and that's for HARD labor. Like pulling a transmission for a clutch or motor work" Seems we are right in line there. And while yes, it is hard labor, its something any mechanic should be able to do or at least attempt. Tuning is a different skill set and highly specialized, that pays a different wage (thats also why theres not thousands of them between here and ohio). Our 2wd dyno tuning rate is $200 per hour, our awd tuning rate is $225 per hour. (we have both a 2wd dynojet and an awd mustang dyno". Our rates are very competitive with our market place, we usually have a 3-4 week wait this time of year for new appointments. While we appreciate your input on how to run our business, we are and have been growing over the last 10 years (we now have 11 FT employees and a 25000 sqft shop), and we are doing just fine. And yes the equipment cost is part of the reason for the labor being different. The equipment is a big investment. Notice that last word "investment". When we bought our first dyno several years ago the market wasn't saturated with used dynos from closed and unsuccessful shops, so we bought new. And we charge what we charge, it seems to work just fine. So we see no need to change that. Another factor that may be skewing your perception of us is where you our from. The cost of living is significantly lower in columbus ohio. Not that case in our area. Just check the housing market figures : Columbus Home Prices and Home Values - Zillow average home price <100k where we are : Montgomery County Home Prices and Home Values - Zillow literally 2.5x more expensive in our area. Perhaps if we went somewhere that was cheaper we could lower the prices, but again, we are competitive in our market (which we define as eastern PA, NJ and NY, where most of our customers come from. 4. i cant drive 8 hours for full price: that's ok, i wouldnt drive that far for something i claim to be very easy to do, and also able to do myself. again we wish you luck with whomever you use. However several people have driven further the same service you are asking for, they did so because they felt we were the best choice for their car, not the cheapest. We have customers from ohio, western pa, west virginia, northern new york, massachusetts, hell even canada (sup @galeforce !) Some of our customers drive several hours for normal service like exhaust work, or alignments. Hell, even @ak370 the owner of this whole forum made a several hour trip from Atlantic city to get his car aligned. Where we are located only seems to be a problem for you, not us. Just an observation to think about: you mentioned your old tattoo shop. A new artist starting out, who is new at his craft, will generally offer tattoos at a price point that is cheaper than a well established artist. They will do that to get some new business in and get people talking, and hopefully get some referrals. An established artist in that industry can charge as high as $200 a hour, and they have waiting lists that go on for months. Why? The guy who just started does the same thing right? Like Erik, had mentioned, we are not interested in working with you regardless at this point, and i cant see why any professional in this industry would after you said "Why the **** do you think you're worth over $200 an hour to punch buttons?" That statement is not only insulting to the 11 FT employees here at R/T, but to everyone in this great industry who takes pride in their job and occupation. Again, best of luck to you in finding a tuner that fits your budget and geographical constraints.