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Originally Posted by Red__Zed
I think you are imagining a lot of content to my posts that is not there.
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Originally Posted by Red__Zed
Since you seem to be rustled at the idea of the Mustang doing OK...
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Pot, meet kettle. I'm not anti-Mustang, but I'm not one to turn away from a good p!ssing match, so here we are.
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Originally Posted by Red__Zed
Take a quick google search to see what 2009 S2000s were selling for--it's very close to what the used ones are selling for...Honda incentivized them very heavily.
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I did a bit of research online for owners' claimed purchase prices for their new S2000s. I found an average discount of $5,474 for new '08/'09 purchases (calculated against each year's respective MSRP). Some of the owners' dialog sounded more like negotiation than pure Honda incentives - I know those are easily confused.
I also took a look at a few new Mustang GTs on a local Ford dealer's website to compare to Ford's claimed MSRP. Doing so provides an obvious bump in the Mustang's residual, assuming the same incentive applied to the '09 MSRP, in fact now it would be the third highest on that same list - I hope you'll find this acceptable. The Z still falls 'above average' in this truncated list, so there's that, I guess.
I used Edmunds TMV value for new base 370Zs and 335i sedans to estimate a discount from MSRP for those two models as well...here's a new chart that should make you feel better:
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Originally Posted by Red__Zed
Finally, you and others seem to continue to confuse negotiation with mfr incentives.
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Originally Posted by Red__Zed
That's like getting 2.8k off a mustang, when in reality you'll get something like 10k off.
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No, I'm not confusing the two - I just think your claim of $10k off of a base Mustang GT seems awfully optimistic and isn't in line with current incentives. To get there you'd have to also throw in some negotiating, I'd think, or were there specific $10k incentives offered in 2009 on a $27k Mustang?
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Originally Posted by Red__Zed
Lifecycle end incentives affect the S2000.
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It seems like I threw in a caveat for the S2000 on my initial post. My limited research suggests that some folks were getting significant discounts on the S2000 going back to 2004-07, well before the last '09s rolled out. Part of what also hurts the S2000 residual is also what hurts the Z, it didn't sell particularly well, it appeals to a very small enthusiast market and general public awareness is very low (which is a shame).
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Originally Posted by Red__Zed
BMW consistently sells for msrp, especially on flagships.
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Originally Posted by Red__Zed
BMW discounts the 335i, but not the M3.
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Which is it? (Yes, I know the 335i isn't a flagship.) Even taking into account TMV pricing on the 335i, it still has worse residual value than the 370Z, so I guess us Z owners can take solace in that.
Anyway, I'm done bickering. My first post in this thread was legitimately submitted because of my own curiosity in the Z's value - and I think that, as you yourself have mentioned, the Z's value retention is pretty decent with all things considered.