Jimmy12 has been reported

OK lets examine each one of these:

1] Nitrogen is denser than Oxygen: This means the larger molecules escape less easily from tires resulting in a more gradual loss of pressure over time. According to the Michelin Tire Manual, a tire that is inflated with Nitrogen loses its pressure 3 times slower than if it were inflated with air.

This one sounds reasonable, plausible and probable. So I will experience a decrease in the number of times I would need to inflate the tires.

Score a +1 for your bullet point.

[2] Nitrogen is moisture free: Pure Nitrogen inflated tires experience less steel belt and rubber degradation. Nitrogen use also reduces valve and wheel corrosion.

Considering there is water on the roads after raining or snowing and the atmosphere that surrounds the outer surface of the tire has moisture in it all the time I don't see where this "advantage" amounts to a hill of beans. The tire will be always exposed to moisture whether there is Nitrogen or AIR in the tires. The same argument holds for wheel and air-valve corrosion. Having Nitrogen in the tire doesn't do anything as the moisture in the atmosphere is what causes the corrosion.

Also regarding the "steel belts" portion of your point, the belts are encased in the rubber and are not exposed to the moisture of the air. So Nitrogen nor the AIR in the tire would even come close to touching the "steel belts" to cause them to corrode.

Score a -1 for your bullet point.


[3] Nitrogen provides longer tire life: Nitrogen inflated tire run cooler and require less maintenance according to the Goodyear application bulletin.

Tire life is a function of a tire being exposed to wear and tear of the physical road surface and also based on the driving habits of the car's driver. If the tires are kept inflated to spec then the wear and tear should be equal in amount and kind of wear and tear despite whether AIR of Nitrogen is being used.

The only way Nitrogen would make a difference is if in some manner the Nitrogen is somehow combining with the rubber of the tire to change its chemical composition to resist wear and tear. And that is totally impossible given the Nitrogen is being used to just inflate the tire and NOT to manufacture the tire.

Score a -1 for your bullet point.

[4] Nitrogen is non-flammable: Nitrogen technology has been used in aircraft, military and race car technology for over thirty years.

So what if Nitrogen is non-flammable. So is AIR. AIR is NOT the same as pure oxygen. Pure oxygen is NOT put into ties...AIR is put into tires. If AIR was a flammable substance then every time a match is struck to light a cigarette there would be a massive explosion.

Score a -1 for your bullet point.


TOTAL SCORE:

Valid arguments = +1
Invalid arguments = -3

So with the exception of point #1 where the use of Nitrogen would decrease the number of times I may have to inflate the tire where are the facts that support any advantage of using Nitrogen over Air????

At $40.00 a pop for Nitrogen I think that there is hardly any way that using Nitrogen over AIR to inflate the tires is cost-effective by any stretch of the imagination.

I just keep hearing that piper play people...

^^Dayum, good counter!! great pic again!

I like nitro for flat spots when your car is stored for a longer period of time. For some sunday drivers it's a great benefit to have.

Yeah, I have heard of that being one of the benefits, but Ive yet to actually see it myself first hand. But from what I hear from others, especially some of my old timer, snow bird customers, it helps.

I had to get two new tires(non z car,jfi)! New tires on the rear, old tires (but good tread) moved to the front. Rear new tires, were nitrogen filled(free, no charge, I didn't even request it).
That was 2 months ago, I check the pressure on the 1st of each month faithfully!
The front tires, I have had to add a pound or two of air each time. The rear nitrogen tires have maintained the same pressure.

I use Nitrogen, but I don't inhale!

A ten second Google search isn't scourer. I deal with technicians all day everyday...who cares that your a tech. Your probably a shadetree tech anyway since your on these forums. You not an engineer that developed anything, so what good is your word against all these organizations and manufacturers who promote Nitrogen. That's my point!!

If you want to state your opinion then that's ok!! I keep repeating myself about first hand experience and nobody states that they've tried it and it didn't make some difference. No real comparison study. That's my basis for arguement. Not that I am a pro and you should listen to me!!!! :icon14:

Bottom line, you can listen to folks who sit in front of a computer and analyze things and make generalized statements when a legitimate question is asked or you can listen to first hand experience w/ actual comparisons.(based on initial skepticism)

DONE! You'll be happy to know I'm done here! I'm sure you'll need the last word! :rolleyes:

panties in a bunch much, jeez. you contradicted yourself anyway. my statements come from actual experience and whether you choose to believe it or not is your prerogative. this isnt some college class where i have to APA cite every damn statement i make.

now that he's gone, back to the topic. i guess the moral of the story with nitrogen is if you feel it is worth your money, go for it, if not, don't. just be aware that there is much hype surrounding this stuff.

nitrogen sucks every new car i have ever bought had nitrogen. shi t flattens quick within a few days. and I was told its better then regular air. yahhhhh right..

Who cares? What can your car do on the track is what I care about.

The air I breathe has worked for me for 40 years. I check my tires for pressure about once a month on 3 cars and 2 bikes. Most times the air pressure hasn't dropped enough to show up on my guage. If it has dropped, I flash up my compressor and add the required amount. On one ocassion, I had new tires filled with nitrogen. Those tires lost pressure over time just like they were filled with the air that I breathe. Did I get ripped off? I don't know of any way to check if the tire actually has nitrogen or not. Is there an easy way?

My wheels (on my car) sat all winter and didn't lose any pressure at all with regular air when measured at equal temperature. According to my "tire guy" most of the pressure loss occurs as the rims get a few years older and oxidation occurs on the surface of the aluminum preventing a perfect seal. There are various methods to fix this during a tire swap, but only the good shops seem to bother. Of course there are plenty of other ways to lose air pressure such as leaky valve cores, hidden punctures etc. Also note that using a tank air compressor with water trap filter will give better results than a portable tankless compressor.

yes, perfectly said:tup:

Decreases rolling resistance...lol...

JUst like everything in JC Whitney adds 5HP and 10% better MPG.

This made me laugh, not sure if anyone else got the joke?:bowrofl:

The rear nitrogen tires have maintained the same pressure. Checked today, refer to post46.

I don't know what people mean when they say N is more stable.

Remembering high school physics: P1T1 = P2T2. (Correction? P1/T1 = P2/T2). In other words, you heat a gas up a certain amount then the pressure goes up a certain amount. Doesn't matter what gas you're talking about. Maybe they mean no Oxygen is safer and better (uh, less oxidation). Ya, I'll buy that.

Anyways, I just bought a Coupe w/Sport pkg today (yahoo!), and it has green caps on the valve stems. Does that mean they put Nitrogen in the tires, or are they just pretty green caps?

Hahahaha ya I did

:koolaidwall:

Well your physics is off a bit but you're right about it not nattering what gas it is. An stability is quite a vague statement. Although I have no experience with nitrogen in tires, it does seem like a bunch of hype..

Ya, it was late last night. I believe the equation is P1/T1 = P2/T2. Corrections welcome!

where to start with this one I work in an industry where we make siginifcant investment in tires about 30 million a year and we dont use nitrogen in our tires. And we have examined it at length.

1) The stability over temperature argument - is not that simple, this goes to why race teams use nitrogen. It is not actually stability that they are chasing it is the absolutely predictable rate of expansion dervied from not having any moisture in the tire. When you are looking at .5 pounds of pressure making a handling difference being able to truly cold fill a tire and know what the hot temperature is going to be is a must. Partial myth there due to no applicability to road cars.

2) The tires will run cooler - current advances in tire temperature pressure and temperature monitoring have born this to be a myth, as long as the inflation of both tires is the same there is no measureable difference.

3) Why do airplanes use nitrogen - primarily because at levels exceeding 94.5% purity nitrogen is inert meaning that the tire is less likely to explode due to pyrolysis occuring within the tires.

4) The fuel economy improvement argument - this is predicated on maintaining tire pressure correctly and is a flawed argument, in that if you dont measure pressure pre-nitrogen you will not with nitrogen either, in anecdotal trending it would indicate that those running nitrogen have a false sense of security on their pressures.

5) Corrosion of belts and interior carcass - ding this is true...... but tell me when was the last time that you wore out the interior of the tire before the tread?? I have never done that myself. This is further hampered by what some others have mentioned, eliminating a small amount of moisture from the inside does nothing to mitagate all the pesky oxygen, moisture and the bonus prize UV from attacking the outside of the carcass.

This was primarily aimed at long haul truck applications that retread non steering axle tires and ensuring that the case was reuseable, but in recent effort one of our major tire providers did a controlled study on their truck fleet and could not demonstrat a cost benefit to using nitrogen on their own fleet.

The basics need to be understood, in order to have meaningful inflation with nirogen you must have a greater than 99% pure source. This is the only way to ensure that the tire can be inflated to 96-98% pure nitrogen and that is predicated on being able to fill the tire, deflate and re-inflate to displace the O2 already in the tire at atmospheric pressure. This holds true for every tire that someone needed to top of with compressed air due to lack of facilities.

To test the level of nitrogen in a tire you need to actually measure the level of Oxygen in the tire and surmise from there.

We can start a whole different debate on the processes used to deliver compressed nitrogen and their effectiveness in another topic later if need be.

Cliffs Notes: if you maintain your tire pressure correctly anyway Nitrogen is a good way too waste your money. I would not pay ever to have my tires filled with Nitrogen.

i have it in all my vehicles and it kicks *** i really think they ride is better i have it in my lexus and in my Z and even in my dump trucks

What you say about Nitrogen being more stable due to no water in the tire makes sense. I also remember from Physics 101 that water expands to something like 1500 times its volume when it changes to a gas, so no water in the air or nitrogen would make the pressure more stable (at least that makes sense to me). I would think that dry air would work about as well. Nitrogen sounds cooler though.

I thinks its all in your head...

All I know is F1 cars use them, which means there is an advantage than using regular compressed air. But F1 teams spend millions to gain a tenth of a second...so unless you are a hard core racer or have the money to spend, go for it. I'll spend 75 cents for regular air =).

Haha was just going to point this out. Air is mostly N2 anyways...why pay more for it!!

those equations assume the same gas on both sides of the equations....

Think PV=nRT...


n2 is ever so slightly more stable. No reason to pay extra for it. Costco does n2 for free though!