West End Alignment...Hoax?
 

Hey guys, I installed Z1 upper control arms and rear arms on my 370Z. I took it this past Friday to West End to get corner balanced. Chris worked on my car (he did last year as well with stock camber).


He told me that the front is not far off and he'll be able to adjust without removing the wheels, so he'll be done sooner. Which to me was very surprising, as you know Z1 upper control arms requires to be partially or completely removed to adjust the length, but I doubted myself and not West End as they are known to be the best.

He finished the car at 12:20 and told me that he had front at -3.3, 0 toe and rear at 2.6 1/8 toe.

Btw, my appointment was at 11 but I found out that he had another appointment at 12:30. So he kind of knew/wanted that he'll be done in an hour and a half with my car. Hmmmm...

My OCD took me today to our neighborhood PepBoys to check my alignment using their Hunter computerized machine. Sure enough, the alignment was far off. -2.7 FL and 3.7 FR! Attached are both West End and Computer alignment check.

What do you guys think? Could the computer be wrong? What would you do?

Sorry, duplicate post, don't know how to delete thread

Your hunch is what matters so if you think you did not get the service you paid for, you should go back and talk to them. If they are truly reputable, they will guarantee their work.

If the alignment is this far off you should be able to see it. Yeah, it's that bad. Unless you know the guy at Pepboy's, I wouldn't trust his work. They hire anyone who will claim to be a mechanic, no teeth required.

Same with places like Goodyear / Firestone. The people who work there typically have no training whatsoever.

Source: Friends that worked there who really shouldn't have.

I understand, but the computer guides the technician through every step. I was watching the process. You can literally have a monkey do the process.

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:iagree::iagree:

:iagree: West has a good reputation and has been recommended to me in the past so I would go talk with them. Just the time they spent on the car does not sound right. It takes my shop longer just to set adjust my coil over ride height and align.

Took it back to them, told Chris that I don't understand how he could fix the camber/caster of newly installed FUCA without removing the wheels. I told him that I just eyeballed/tried to match with OEM length and installed them.

He lifted the car and came back and he swore that the front was symmetrical. He said I don't know how you installed the FUCA but it is -3.3 on both sides. He said that he intentionally left the caster with more on right than left because it is daily driven as well.

I guess I'll just sit on it and watch tire wear.

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That is unlikely. Possible, but unlikely.

A couple of things come to mind. One, West End didn't do anything, and pushed it out of the door. Pepboys caught it. Two, West End did it right. Pepboys are trying to screw you. Need a third opinion.

No alignment printout from west end?

Nope, they never do.

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Do might try Jonhson's, they're a reputable shop that does corner balancing also. They're in Torrance.

Thanks! I'll definitely do.

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That's right, they never give you a print out. I went there about three times to get an alignment, corner balance and a few suspensions parts installed and the wheels were not removed either.

By the way, there's a well known performance alignment shop in Temple City called, JC Auto House. I went there after going to West End and I felt they did a better job. I definitively recommend it.

JC Auto House
9237 Lower Asuza Rd, UNIT O
Temple City, CA 91780
626-287-7781
Ask for Cyrus

https://www.yelp.com/biz/jc-auto-hou...t_by=date_desc

Thank you! This shop is 10 minutes away from work!

No alignment printout upon request seems pretty questionable actually

I always request...demand a print out...because racecar!

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No print out. Then they can tell you anything.

Went to JC Auto (Thanks for the recommendation littlejuanito) and got numbers print out. First JC Auto guy (Cyris?) was extremely thorough in the process and his alignment computer is pretty sophisticated. The numbers are symmetrical! Little bit off from what West End gave me but it's pretty damn symmetrical. Conclusion WEST END IS GOOD. Check print out attached. Thank you all for the support.http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5be3da7a...eck%202018.pdf

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did you have it re-aligned at JC?

the measurements between pepboys' and JC's are different, but not by too much... the condition of your car (tire pressure, amount of gas etc) may have caused some variations.

I'm curious if you wanted that much negative camber on the front and the front toe setting is off quite a bit (-20/+4, L&R).

How does your car drive?

No, he didn't do any alignment. He just got the numbers for me.

The reason why I have a lot of negative camber is because now I'm doing only autocross and I needed the car to be more nimble. As for toe, not sure why West End did it this way. But it handles fine.

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I want to clarify the no printout situation with West End. I got my car aligned there after me and my friends installed a set of SPL FUCA's, rear control arms and a set of Mines Ohlins ESTA coilovers.

After Chris finished aligning and corner balancing my car, he showed me a slip with the alignment numbers written down. Advised me to take a photo so I have a record of my baseline when it comes time to get the car aligned again. I believe Chris does his alignments mostly manually and therefore does not have access to a machine that records the numbers to be printed out. He did not need to remove my wheels to do the alignment.

After several track days I felt like it might be time to get realigned, so I took it to Corner 3 Garage since they are super close to where i live. I showed them the photo of the alignment slip and before they realigned the car, everything was very close to the original numbers provided by Chris. Only thing that needed some tweaking was my rear toe, we are talking between 1/16 and 2/32 of an inch difference. If I find my Corner 3 alignment sheet, i'd be happy to upload that here as well.

Anyway, not sure what happened in your case but I'm confident his numbers were spot on when he aligned my car and I had a VERY reputable second opinion to back that up. Chris and Darren are known for being very OCD and work on track cars that demand precise specifications all the time, I'd be very surprised if the numbers were indeed that far off

Whatever the case may be I hope it gets resolved properly.

I was taught alignments on a Hunter A111 machine in 1983. That machine had prints outs. If West Ends machine doesn't have print outs. It's either a low cost machine or a relic.

It may not even be a machine, I have a distinct feeling it's all manual.

That's what I'm thinking too. He's using turn plates with caster, camber gauges.

Something like this.

A lot of shops that setup track or racecars use the string method to set the alignment. Many feel they get a better adjustment that way over the alignment machine.

As a retail establishment, however . . . seems like a printout is better for both the customer and the shop. *** coverage

Yeap, no calibration error to account for.

I've gotten my Z aligned and corner-balanced a couple of times at West End. Darren and Chris and very meticulous and the shop has a solid reputation across several forums. It's not your average alignment shop. Although, I have seen an elderly couple bring in their Hyundai Elantra for an alignment.

They are often prepping cars before or after track events. I have not received a specs print out on either of my visits. I do believe their calculations are all manual except for the digital weight scales. They also do something with a white spray on the outer edges of the tires. Not sure what that is used for.

I trust that these guys are qualified professionals.

How many people can read a tape measure in 64's? :icon14:

It would be great, but if there's no machine that calculates and stores the alignment settings for each customer visit in a database somewhere then there's nowhere to print that data from.

Even if he typed it into a customer invoice form then printed it out, it would be no different than him writing it down on a piece of paper and showing it to the customer.

I don't mind really that he doesn't provide a printout as long as my car feels good and the numbers are what they say they are, so far West End has delivered on both criteria.

I think you and a couple of other people have recommended them to me as well. The proof is in the pudding. You go faster than most and your car goes where you point it.

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Thanks Eagle, I have posted the hand-written alignment report on the beginning of the thread. They do give one, but it is manual reading. The computer precision shown different numbers and toe to be pretty off.

I have been going to West End for over two years now, It's just this time was a bit rushed and it made me wonder. I didn't doubt them before. But if you see the numbers i got from JC auto, you'll see that their work is not flawless, and the reason is not them not know what they're doing, it is the absence of computer alignment machine.