UpRev full tuning capabitliy??
 

I'm new to the need for tuning the ecu of cars as my past cars have not had ecu's in them so I called up UpRev for some info. From reading this forum I was under the impression that tuning capabilities were basically limited to A/F corrections.
I spoke with Richard at Uprev about getting my car tuned there soon and questioned him about what all they can do (correct A/F ratios and rev limiter, etc). His reply was that they are not limited to A/F and rev limit or valet modes etc, but have Full tuning capability of this ecu. Is this news to anyone or am I miss understanding something. Does Uprev have the ability to fully tune this car at their shop that they havent released to other authorized Uprev tuners??

We use UpRev for tuning our superchargers as well as N/A tuning.. not sure where you've picked up your information on UpRev, but it is a full tuning solution, and gives the tuner wide access to the ECU.

I was also under the impression that no one had cracked the VVEL as of yet.

That is correct, and some definite improvements in tuning will come if/when that day happens, but tuning the car is totally possible without, as the VVEL still functions.

Yeah, but not optimally, especially with FI... :icon14:

That's a bummer... I'm surprised no one has at least figured out a piggyback method to spoof signals like the camcon does for VVTi and i-vtec :(

Can anyone even access the factory maps just for purposes of viewing?

Tuning is possible I understand that. When UpRev said they had FULL tuning ability I was under the impression that that included the VVEL, to me that would be FULL capability.

:iagree:

Does anyone know if the uprev tune deletes the governer?

It can If you want it to!

FI and VVEL can play very well together at the current levels, now if you are wanting to jump up to the 700whp range then maybe not.
The thing so far with Uprev, as they have told me, is there are no components that would take full advantage of VVEL and there is a concern that using the stock components would be useless or maybe "dangerous" for the consumer.

It is a bit of a back and forth, but I understand them being cautious with it currently.

^^Good response, on the being cautious. Thanks for the input. ^^

Here is the email I got which is a bit more specific for you guys.

Thanks alot Dreamer this was a perfect answer to my concern. That explains things much better than the answers I got on the phone. I'll be going to UpRev soon to have my car tuned.

I think we should all be aware that even when the capability arrives, tuning the VVEL is going to be a challenge as I am sure few have experience doing these types of changes in addition to the A/F and timing maps. This will add yet another variable to the scheme and add to the complexity. It will be of the utmost importance to go to a really solid tuner.

No components? You mean like a different set of cams? Stiffer valve springs? You don't necessarily need any of that to take advantage of VVEL tuning -- that's ********.

Valve timing overlap and lift play a huge role in power production and effeciency by affecting the rate and volume of air ingested, the duration of time it stays in the combustion chamber, and the rate that exahust is expelled. Too much overlap, and you'll blow the mixture out too soon, too little, and you'll have too much backpressure.

It may work fine and safely with boost, but I highly doubt it is optimal because once you start changing the intake and exhaust system, the valve timing should be adjusted too.

There's no more danger from a poor VVEL tune than any other improper setting on AFR or ignition timing.

But, whatever, if they can't do it, they can't do it. Obviously it works well enough without VVEL tuning...

I want Launch Control

I want Drift Hero mode for my 7AT, just set the limiter to 7500 and let me bounce off it lol.

It almost works for Valet Mode but it only goes to 4500RPM.

u know has anyone looked at the price on a set of new cylinder heads for our car? I don't know who is ripping uprev off but each full head assembly on courtesy parts is $500. replacing the ENTIRE motor and i mean everything might cost you $10K I smell bs stop nagging us excuse because if nissan can sell a whole car with a waiver to net press a few buttons i think that uprev could at least do a pro tuner release to their supposed "certified" shops that know what they are doing. And you can't shuck off the fact that sales would go up just by letting ur customer know that it can be done. Until they at least demonstrate that they can do it i'm going with they only partially cracked it and don't have a driveable version of the software and just don't want to pour anymore resources into it.

Yeah but what happens when a guy like me wants to take his car to the next level and lower the compression and up the boost with new internals???

I don't understand all the concern... :confused:

The valves have a range of mechancial adjustment and they should be tunable within that range. While the settings may be optimal N/A, there's just no way they could be optimal FI.

I seriously doubt you can adjust it to a range where mechanical damage to the valves or cams could result -- at worst it would result in changes that affect cylinder filling, which could result in detonation or suboptimal power, but that's the case when you adjust any engine parameter.

Sooner or later, someone like Power Enterprise will come up with something... either that or we're not getting the whole story. It just seems silly to disregard the adjustment of adjustable valve timing :confused:

All I know; is someone needs to get on it!! ASAP

no see the thing is that the vvel is actually the trottle control on our motors so it actually is fairly complex when you push the gas down the valves open farther. under normal cruising conditions the throttlebodies are wide open.

Are you telling me we don't have traditonal throttle blades (albeit, operated by a motor)?

A buddy of mine had asked about that... hmm.

Well, that makes me wonder how TPS vs. VVEL settings are interpolated...

Damn it -- I want to see the maps :icon14:

EDIT: Okay, we do have a throttle blade, but it's usually open -- huh.

So engine speed is controlled mainly by VVEL. Well, then all we need is a "simple" controller that can advance and retard everything by 1 degree increments, which only operates in open loop at WOT.

No need to mess with low speed tuning -- a lot of that would be off boost or low boost anyway.

Sound like someone should get a job at up-rev! ;)

Heh. I think I'll just try and patiently wait for someone to develop a reasonably user-friendly controller.

It sounds like the major problem is that no one has cracked the VVEL ECU in order to experiment with it... someone will either do that or figure out a way to spoof signals with a piggy back... the latter approach might just be easier.

no see the problem with open throttle blades means you cannot hook a positive displacement supercharger to the car. your only options are turbo and centrifugal (hence stillen using a vortech) I have my own way around this particular problem but i would like to not have to install a separate electronic box and another set of throttle bodies.

Edit: is not being able to sue the most efficient form of supercharger made good enough reason for uprev to release this or not? who in there right mind is going to make a kit that is impossible to rune without having the software to back it up?

Thing is, UpRev can control ECU parameters directly, but the VVEL has it's own controller I believe, can that be accessed from the OBD2 port? And would getting more lift be as simple as editing a number in some table somewhere? Or would the mechanical capabilities of the VVEL restrict that?

God I hate how this VVEL is a black box that we just have to live with

Why can't you have a positive displacement blower? Is the problem constant pressure? Couldn't you just use a bypass or clutch type engagement?

Anway, the stock VVEL settings are probably more forgiving for any blower than a turbine anyway -- blowers aren't built in exhaust restrictions.

I have read this elsewhere.

For the electronics savvy, the simplest way is probably to figure out what voltages various VVEL sensors are looking for to vary lift and valve timing and then just condition those signals by splicing into the ECU wires. Thus, no tuning code would be needed, and in theory, the ECU would "think" it's operating as normal. That's essentially how piggyback VVTi and VVTLi controllers like the Camcon and V-manage work.

So... the million dollar question is: Does anyone have the VVEL ECU wiring diagram, the schematics for the VVEL sensors, or know anything about their operation, voltages, resistance, etc?

all the info you want is in the fsm download it and get reading. and yeah the blower would be pushing full cfm's all the time with no throttlebodies to restrict the inlet. and clutches are real gay you might as well just have nitrous or turbo's if you going to throw out the throttle characteristics of a true positive displacement setup.

Cool, I'll check it out -- thanks :tiphat:


Ha ha ha -- well, I don't know if it would be quite that bad. You'd just need a decent TPS switch to have it come on at say, 2/3 throttle. That's how the old Blitz kit was set up for the 7th gen Celica, and it worked fine.

Although, it might be okay even with a properly set up bypass valve, which all modern PD SC's have now anyway.

It should still make boost ealier and have better throttle response than a centrifugal blower or turbo.

The ECU calculates the target valve lift based on driving conditions, and sends that info to the VVEL control module, which in turn controls the actuator motor. So, theoretically, UpRev should have the capability to precisely control VVEL.

Yeah, but it's probably determined by referencing a load x RPM table, so it would still be ideal to edit the actual values in the table directly.

Although, I suppose they could spoof it by sending altered MAF/load readings, and then just adjust AFR and ignition to compensate, but that might create all sorts of weird driveability quirks.

Calculate? Are you certain it's not just another values in a table like Jordo suggested

I am sure that they have either been working on a solution diligently (or just sitting on it). The thing that has me wondering is...........why did Cobb jump ship like they did? Is the solution that difficult? Is it not cost effective?

damn good question. I also heard AP support for the 370z was no longer. I don't understand that, as trey cobb owns and drives a 370z doesn't he? weird..

is it a waste of money to uprev a stock 370z? What would I get about a 5-10hp gain, for how much?

yes, a waste of money.

so this leaves everyone to wonder what type of HP can be made by cracking the vvel safe... lol

Time will tell! :P

wow this is way over my head lol. I guess all I understand is left foot up and right foot down! :tup: