Nissan 370Z Forum

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-   -   2014 SCCA SOLO National Championship (http://www.the370z.com/track-autocross-drifting-dragstrip/94319-2014-scca-solo-national-championship.html)

ConeKilla 09-10-2014 05:56 PM

I'm late to the response here. But congrats to all for trophies and wins. All hard fought and won. I only got a chance to introduce myself to Jeff...and I didn't get to see you all run because heat 3 was when I had to eat and get the car ready for heat 4 for the DPL class. Im trying to get my hands on video from the DP car which I will share as the perspective is really cool.

I'm still not sure if I will be focusing on driving the 370z for next year or Focusing on ESP in my Mustang. I guess it depends on what the SCCA SEB does with each of those classes for next year.

nismosis 09-12-2014 12:12 PM

This was my first full season with the Z and taking autox more serious, so I was hoping for at least top half. 38th of 55 kinda sucks. What sucks more is, the weekend before Nats, I beat the guy in 15th in Peru at the Hoosier Challenge. How does that work?

I did switch to 285 R-S3s from from 295 Rivals right before Nats as well. I haven't found the limit of the R-S3s yet, as they are much different than the Rivals. I have stock shocks as well, so I'm selling the Rivals to get some money back and will probably get Konis for next season

Also, how is it fair you West Coast and Southern guys get to autox year round?! :confused:

Hoping to see you all out there again next year...in BS maybe?? :hello:

03threefiftyz 09-12-2014 12:30 PM

Meh, some of the mid west and east coasters get relatively close to me at locals and national events....then it spreads out a bit in Lincoln. Always works out that way....

NoGrip61 09-12-2014 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nismosis (Post 2962970)
Hoping to see you all out there again next year...in BS maybe?? :hello:

Is that what the rumor is??!!

stuy486 09-12-2014 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGrip61 (Post 2963162)
Is that what the rumor is??!!

There have been 3 FasTracks so far with people asking for the car to move to BS. So far the response has been "We're not going to move any cars until after nationals", but now it's after nationals so I imagine the subject will be addressed at least once more in FasTrack.

cjwsrt6 09-12-2014 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuy486 (Post 2956684)
For C-Street anyways, there's no "secret" for car setup that will "fix" your problems. It's just not possible to get the car to handle well without changing suspension components. IMHO, the trick to being successful in Stock/Street class is learning to drive around any given car's limitations.

For example, to address your issue of oversteer while power out of/through corners: In my car, I am rarely at full throttle. The diff just gets pissed off if you try to use full throttle with the wheel turned at all.

In our car, you've gotta be super smooth rolling onto the throttle, especially powering out of corners, and unless you're going dead straight, you pretty much can't ever be 100%.

I wish I had data to support this claim, but I would imagine a majority of the time I'm on the throttle, it's between half and 7/8ths.


Here's are all the setup details for my car:
Eibach front bar, stiffer setting.
Koni Yellow off-the-shelf shocks (rebound adjustment only). 6/10 in the front, 8/10 rear
Stock front camber (~.7°)
Minimum rear camber (~1.2°) to help the diff not suck as much
0 front toe, ~1/8" rear toe in
stock wheels, 275/35R19 Hankook RS3 V2 tires on all 4

Perhaps the rear camber is the odd thing out there... I set it that way on the initial alignment and never changed it. The theory is that standing the rears up more would help even out rear grip while cornering, making the diff have to do less work.

question, I hear a lot of people saying the rear end is real loose on these cars, if so couldnt you go softer front setting on the eibach or softer on the koni fronts to help the rear stay in shape more ofter? im getting my 370 next week and already have koni yellows and rs-3's on order just trying to get a good starting point for next season

gomer_110 09-12-2014 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjwsrt6 (Post 2963187)
question, I hear a lot of people saying the rear end is real loose on these cars, if so couldnt you go softer front setting on the eibach or softer on the koni fronts to help the rear stay in shape more ofter? im getting my 370 next week and already have koni yellows and rs-3's on order just trying to get a good starting point for next season

You actually want to do the opposite of what you're suggesting. Stiff front bar and shocks up front and softer in the rear.

ConeKilla 09-12-2014 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuy486 (Post 2963174)
There have been 3 FasTracks so far with people asking for the car to move to BS. So far the response has been "We're not going to move any cars until after nationals", but now it's after nationals so I imagine the subject will be addressed at least once more in FasTrack.

I went ahead and put a plug in for the 370's to stay in CS. There are no national events this year where the 370 creamed the field. Aside from the beating you gave the field at crows landing this year...which doesn't help our case...maybe sand bag a little next time Jeff. ;)

I went on to suggest that if they want to move the car out of a class it should be STR to STU since in ST form there would not be much difference between the 350 and 370.

If your an SCCA member and a Z driver I encourage you to take 5min and speak up.

j-rho 09-29-2014 06:13 PM

If anybody is interested in purchasing a Z for BS, I have a '14 in Gun Metallic ready to go. Aligned, RS3s, revalved Koni yellows, Eibach and Hotchkis front bars, and exhaust midpipe. All stock parts too. 500 miles on the car.

gomer_110 09-29-2014 07:16 PM

I'm convinced that there's someone on the SEB that has a personal issue with the 370z. Looking at the results from nationals I don't know how you can argue that the Z was the dominant car. While the Z took 1st, it was only by ~.3 sec over the two days. The RX-8 and the MX-5 both seemed to do fine against the Z. The ones who suffered were the Toyobaru's. This seems to points out that the twins should be moved to DS, not the 370z to CS.

I guess if enough people buy the same car and all cry loud enough about having the wrong car for the class the SEB will eliminate your competition for you. :shakes head:

They could have at least one-lined the Z in BS instead of moving the Nismo to AS. How could they even think the Nismo could ever compete against older Vipers, 911's, C6 vettes, etc. Someone clearly had their head up their a$$ on this one.

NoGrip61 09-29-2014 09:10 PM

Looking at the results from nationals again, top BS times were very comparable to top CS times. This was the 370, NC, RX8 vs C5, s2k, and MSR.... the 370z-sport may still be competitive...

stuy486 09-30-2014 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110 (Post 2982651)
They could have at least one-lined the Z in BS instead of moving the Nismo to AS. How could they even think the Nismo could ever compete against older Vipers, 911's, C6 vettes, etc. Someone clearly had their head up their a$$ on this one.

I don't think you want that... NISMO and Base in the same class makes the NISMO a requirement to have "the best car".

stuy486 09-30-2014 01:00 AM

Also, I imagine we'll find out when the FasTrack is released, but according to the post they're only moving the 370 to B and leaving the 350 in C.

03threefiftyz 09-30-2014 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110 (Post 2982651)
I'm convinced that there's someone on the SEB that has a personal issue with the 370z. Looking at the results from nationals I don't know how you can argue that the Z was the dominant car. While the Z took 1st, it was only by ~.3 sec over the two days. The RX-8 and the MX-5 both seemed to do fine against the Z. The ones who suffered were the Toyobaru's. This seems to points out that the twins should be moved to DS, not the 370z to CS.

I guess if enough people buy the same car and all cry loud enough about having the wrong car for the class the SEB will eliminate your competition for you. :shakes head:

They could have at least one-lined the Z in BS instead of moving the Nismo to AS. How could they even think the Nismo could ever compete against older Vipers, 911's, C6 vettes, etc. Someone clearly had their head up their a$$ on this one.

Ehhh....at some point every type of car seems to fall into this sort of things. The whole SEB thing is after my car, etc...

That said, Mark Andy runs a CS RX8, but I don't know where he stood on the matter.

gomer_110 09-30-2014 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuy486 (Post 2982958)
I don't think you want that... NISMO and Base in the same class makes the NISMO a requirement to have "the best car".

IMHO the "split" should be between the Base and the Sport package. ie. 370Z (base only) in CS and 370Z sport and Nismo in BS. Once you account for the fact that the Nismo is slightly heavier, its aero is pretty useless at autox speeds, and the rules would allow for a sport owner to swap the CBE to something that's even better than the Nismo I think the two are on pretty even footing. The only advantage the Nismo really has is the slightly wider wheels which personally I don't think that tiny bit will make that much of a difference.

NoGrip61 09-30-2014 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110 (Post 2983088)
IMHO the "split" should be between the Base and the Sport package. ie. 370Z (base only) in CS and 370Z sport and Nismo in BS. Once you account for the fact that the Nismo is slightly heavier, its aero is pretty useless at autox speeds, and the rules would allow for a sport owner to swap the CBE to something that's even better than the Nismo I think the two are on pretty even footing. The only advantage the Nismo really has is the slightly wider wheels which personally I don't think that tiny bit will make that much of a difference.

The Nismo also has different springs which are shorter and firmer than the regular 370's, and wider wheels. These two factors, like the Z0K and MSR miata, are what bumps it up a class.

redline10000 09-30-2014 08:59 AM

If we gotta be in BS lets also get into STU. There are a bunch of other BS cars in the STU class why can't we be in there too? I just sent in a request, lets all do the same http://crbscca.com/?page=submitLetter.

stuy486 09-30-2014 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGrip61 (Post 2983127)
The Nismo also has different springs which are shorter and firmer than the regular 370's, and wider wheels. These two factors, like the Z0K and MSR miata, are what bumps it up a class.

And bigger sway bars I think, right?

The springs and sways are what make it a clear upgrade from the base model.

j-rho 09-30-2014 11:20 PM

With 9.5s in front, 305 square might have been a legit option. Oh well.

takjak2 10-01-2014 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redline10000 (Post 2983251)
If we gotta be in BS lets also get into STU. There are a bunch of other BS cars in the STU class why can't we be in there too? I just sent in a request, lets all do the same http://crbscca.com/?page=submitLetter.

We tried this before. Multiple people sent in a variant of a letter I posted. I think there is a 370Z rejection in every fast track for the last year. SCCA classing is silly, but please, keep trying.

gomer_110 10-01-2014 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuy486 (Post 2984361)
And bigger sway bars I think, right?

The springs and sways are what make it a clear upgrade from the base model.

I'll concede the springs point. Completely forgot those were different.

The sway bars argument I can't agree with though. Street class allows replacement of one, so replace the front bar with a stiffer one. This still leaves the rear bar which is stiffer on the Nismo. I would argue that this is actually penalizing the Nismo as it will make it more tail happy and harder to power out of turns.

And let's not forget the Nismo is actually heavier than the base+sport. Yeah it has 18hp more but that is mostly due to the Nismo cbe which is something the non-nismo guys can replace anyways in the street class.

Also does anyone have any actual real life data showing the Nismo's superiority over the non-nismos is autox? If you do, please share.

j-rho 10-01-2014 03:08 PM

The extra .5" front wheel width makes the 305 a reasonable choice - that's a huge advantage even if everything else was the same, which it isn't. Then there's the '15's shorter final drive...

If the regular 370 got moved in with the Nismo in BS, I probably would have traded up. I mentioned this on another forum, which was probably a mistake, as it wouldn't have surprised me if the Nismo had been overlooked if I hadn't mentioned it.

Got a dark cloud of classing over my head, sorry it sprinkled onto the Nismo owners too :)

gomer_110 10-01-2014 08:01 PM

I think I'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue. IMHO until real world data is available, a car (any car, not just the Nismo) should be classed on the soft side. I'll be the first to fall in line once a car shows dominance in a class to have it moved to a higher class. fwiw I define dominance as multiple drivers all doing extremely well in the same car not just one great driver walking away from the rest of the class.

ConeKilla 10-02-2014 12:51 PM

So, I am not shocked they moved the 370 to B Street. I feel worse for the Nismo, it is officially buried now that it's in A Street. But, a Base 370z with sport would not be competitive vs. a Nismo, so if I must drive in BS I'm at least glad it wont be against a Nismo. Having written multiple letters to the SEB on this classing issue and others I am convinced they don't listen to anyone but those who have enough clout as a national winning driver and/or have been active at national level for so many years so as to be known by name. It appears that at the national level Auto-X is being ruined by politics and popularity contests...very sad.

Over the past 6yrs of reading fast track and rules updates, etc. only about 33% of the time does the SCCA SEB seem to make a any rules decision that makes sense. Most the time only if the supporting data is so overwhelming that a raving internet fan boy can't refute it. Makes me think that we have boating enthusiasts making our car classing decisions. /end rant

All that said, I don't think the 370z is overwhelmingly outmatched in BS...unless it's a Pro-solo now that the Audi TT is a BS<sigh>. I just hope that the B Street PAX gets a little softer so I at least have a ice cubes chance in hell at regional events next season.

cossie1600 10-02-2014 05:52 PM

You must not know the politics at scca. It is quite pathetic

wstar 10-03-2014 03:14 PM

Yeah SCCA's classing system and the politics of it is what drove me from wanting to put my Z in their road-course classes, ever. I was planning to hit NASA instead and just do their ST[321U] system that's based almost entirely on hp:weight (I don't think NASA does competitive Auto-X, though). On the other other hand, I'm now really thinking about ditching all the mess of modding a production car and just doing a spec racer class in SCCA, like Spec Racer Ford, maybe sometime next year. Way cheaper and easier in the long run.

j-rho 10-03-2014 04:26 PM

So, do 18's fit over the Sport brakes? Who's got the best price on an OS Giken? Will wait till Oct 20 to start buying stuff, but it's looking like STR is the place to go...

stuy486 10-03-2014 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j-rho (Post 2988103)
So, do 18's fit over the Sport brakes? Who's got the best price on an OS Giken? Will wait till Oct 20 to start buying stuff, but it's looking like STR is the place to go...

Without the restrictions of Street class, it should be relatively easy to find good 18" wheels, I'd check Forgestar. The one guy at Nats who had 18" wheels in CStreet was on Forgestars.

I'll send you some OS Giken contacts on FB for the diff.

Also make sure you talk to Mike Carpenter from Utah who already has his Z built for STR. He has a thread on this forum detailing his build: http://www.the370z.com/track-autocro...-can-done.html

gomer_110 10-03-2014 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j-rho (Post 2988103)
So, do 18's fit over the Sport brakes? Who's got the best price on an OS Giken? Will wait till Oct 20 to start buying stuff, but it's looking like STR is the place to go...

And as soon as you buy wheels and tires they'll move the 370z to STU.

You could just go play in ASP. I hear running the purple crack is a good time.

j-rho 10-03-2014 10:24 PM

That's why I'm waiting till the 20th - last chance to publish 2015 class changes.

Re: ASP, already have a car that needs trailering. The Z was meant to be the drive-it-there-and-back ride.

03threefiftyz 10-04-2014 06:06 PM

A move to STU would be even more of a reason to build the 370 for ST. That said, not going to happen. The evo/sti guys are already in a fret over the 350 and the 370 is a better car.


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