Square tire setup on staggered rims?
 

What is some of your opinions on this guys? To run a square tire size setup while still running staggered rims. Any benefits? disadvantages? Pointless? I'm currently running 18x9.5 and 18x10.5 255/45 and 275/40 staggered setup. Just wondering if doing a 275/40 square setup for some RE-11's would be beneficial at all or if I should just stick with the same staggered setup. I'm looking into Direzza II's, Hankook RS-3's or the new BFG Rivals also.

What the... You're the tire guy...
April fools?

Are you trying to correct some handling problem by doing this?
On my car with the stock 19" I would go through a progression through a session where at first I would have oversteer as the rears came up to temp slower, then the car would be neutral for a while and then towards the end of the session I would get understeer as the fronts started to give up.
I would guess with a square setup on my same suspension settings it would have been scary oversteer for a couple laps, then just some oversteer for a while and then getting neutral towards the end of a session.
If you have enough adjustablility in your suspension then you might get it to work fine though so it really comes down to how you like your car to feel.

Well I'm in search of a new set of tires for next season in AutoX. Yesterdays event was pretty bad as my rear tires didn't have the grip my front tires did so I was having ridiculous oversteer issues. I'm basically just trying to decide whether or not it would be beneficial for me to keep a staggered tire setup or for me to do a square tire set up other then rotation. (I work in a tire shop so I could remount my tires whenever I wanted.) I'm basically looking for best handling characteristics. My tires are my issue now but since I'm in the market to buy new ones before next season, I'd like to know if there is any benefit to going square tire setup even on staggered rims.

Yes it helps a lot. I would never run stagger tires on this car again. My snow tires are the same

I'd never run square in ax. You need as much tire as you can get back there. Min 295 ideally 315. I run 335 rear and 315 fronts now.

If your car isn't turning with stagger its more of a suspension setup issue than tire size.

My car is turning plenty. Right now I'm set up at 255 in front and 275 in rear. I was just trying to see if there was any real benefit to doing a square setup. My car does fine, just about to order a set of tires for dedicated autoX so I wanted to see which would help me the most. If staggered I'm looking at the BFG Rivals at a 295 in the rear and a 275 in front. Or I guess I could run a 315 in the rear and a 275 in front. The Direzzas, the RE-11's, and the RS-3's only come in 275's or 285's for 18's. I don't plan on Hoosiers yet.

You want responsiveness in AutoX (and all tracking) and while wider is generally better, putting rear-appropriate tire sizes on the front won't allow for the slight stretch that gives you that responsiveness. The moment of inertia will be higher as the sidewall waits to stretch and react each time you turn. To maximize grip go with the sticky RS3's @265 front 285 rear since you have that much whp.

Response is overrated, you want grip in the front with the car being so nose heavy

LOL.. OK Cossie. I agree to disagree, again.

265

http://imageshack.us/a/img543/2470/dsc5645w.th.jpg 265

http://imageshack.us/a/img812/3802/dsc5644f.th.jpg 285

http://imageshack.us/a/img812/527/dsc6018.th.jpg

I have multiple sets of the same tire sitting in the basement, welcome to try them and compare them yourself

I run 285 square on road courses. I dont autox though

Yeah Clint I remember how you had to have 10.5's up front to properly stretch the 285's.. so much so that you ran those staggered front Enkei 9.5's once.. twice maybe before you sold them cheap.. lol.. Why do you think Chris is getting so much oversteer? I personally think he's got way more whp than anything under 305 will comfortably handle.. hard to find that in 18" with trackable tires.. Chris you've got super-soft rear sways right? Hotchkis is known for uber stiff hardware.. ok up front but maybe even run stock swaybar out back when you autoX so the tires will hook up properly and not skate..

I actually need to update my WHP as I'm now at 324whp and 269tq but that is probably what causes even more of a problem lol. I do have Hotchkis and they are set on the softest settings. I also have Powertrix coilovers that I also tried to set much softer with only about 4 clicks out of 15. The fronts I run at about 10 clicks and I've been trying to experiment on a road out here that is pretty curvy to see what feels better. Upcoming season with new tires I know that I will need to readjust my configuration yet again anyways would rather get the tires right the first time and adjust suspension as needed. I feel my tires are my biggest issue at the moment which is why I'm gettin a new set for next season. I noticed you said you recommend the RS-3's over the other tires I mentioned. According to tirerack, their tests say both the Direzza and the RE-11's have better cornering, dry traction and steering response. Do you have first hand experience with all of them? Just wondering as I'm caught up trying to decide between all 3! Thanks in advance!

I had the Z1s also. I think the RE11 grip slightly better, but the Z1 has a much more progressive breaking point. If you push the RE11 over its edge, it will lose its grip fairly quickly. On the Z1, you can actually slide a little bit before it lets go completely. I like the Z1 more, they just don't come in a size I would run.

thanks for your input cossie. yeah I'm not a fan of the 275/35. Too short for my liking but unless using slicks I'm pretty limited on street tires for the 18's and autocross. the shorter tires for shorter gearing could be useful in some cases if they stick well enough for me to lay the power down....

I dont understand why none of you guys are running R888's. I have never had issues with these tires, grip so well at the track. They are inexpensive and come in A LOT of different sizes. And I have driven with them in monsoon rains on the highway.

You have suspension on your car, you can definitely go stagger and get a wider rear tire like Shamu said. Yet it would be a waste to not get a big front tire for autox. With the stock diff, you will most likely get the one wheel spin anyway.

One of the problem with the R888 is that it is a tweener. It is not fast enough to compete with the R6/Z214, it isn't streetable enough to compare to the Pirelli Corsa/Trofeo/Pilot Cup. Also R888 is marketed as a RA1 replacement. For those who ran the RA1, they can tell you how much longer the RA1 last and how much more consistent they were. You might be getting what seems to be a long life on your R888, but there is a huge dropoff in performance after the initial couple cycles that makes them not worth while buying or keeping. New R888 is faster than new RA1, but old RA1 is faster than old R888.

I bought three sets of used R888s and then I finally woke up and decided it wasn't worth it. I did test a set of old R888s and a set of Z1s, I think I was 2-3 sec faster with the R888 at VIR off the top of my head. A guy running a set of BFG R1 was 2 sec faster than me in the same car with about 15 more HP.

With my tune and bolt ons I have the same whp and tq figures. I have RS3 square, RE11 staggered, and NT01 square. Obv NT01 is fastest, RS3 has 4 seconds a lap over the RE11, (full track) even at 285 vs. 305 width. RE11 has less grip now than when I got them, about 30% left on the rear and they scream and slip, it's strictly a street tire now. RS3 is good nearly to the cord. We all run them out here, nobody wants to be at a disadvantage. Nobody we know runs Dunlops... Martin82 tried R888's and he fried them in about 2-3 days, times were on par with the RS3.

You have coilovers! Good corner balancing will get you to near 50-50 weight distribution, that should make a huge difference. Take the rear sway off for AutoX. Soft hotchkis is still stiff- our cars have a super quick camber curve and if you let them sit down easily you'll get gobs of lateral grip. Don't overdo the rear camber, mid 2's to start will quickly become high 3's to 4+ when compressed. You can probably get there without twiggy arms, the stock setup with a drop usually nets you 2.5 rear. 3-ish up front is good. Front .10 toe out each side, .10 toe in for the rear.

isnt he making NA power?

RS3 is the fastest street tire bar none

R888's in my opinion are peaky, good in a narrow temp range, good when new, but after that they fall off hard. I much prefer the NT01s if your looking at 100 treadware entry level r comps

Hmmmmm RS3's are the way to go then. Now to decide whether being a bit faster is worth the $350 extra when I'm not competing nationally..... I can get RE-11's for $1k and the RS3's will cost me almost $1,400 to get out to Hawaii. Re-11's I wouldnt need to pay shipping since I can just get through Costco.

All depends on tire you use. I usually assume ax/track means people are using stiffer sidewall tires. It's not a stretch to do 285 performance tire in front on 9.5. Our cars are very heavy in front and can use grip. Honestly responsiveness on 295 Hoosier on 9.5 is excellent. Don't think you'd see top CStock solo 370z on 295 up front if a 265 was better. :tiphat:

I have run 275 front and 285 rear setup and was just not enough tire for ax with my 325 WHP NA car and when I went to 478 WHP with supercharger I'd put the skinny setup on if I just wanted to drift a lot.

If one is looking at street tire like bfg rival or Dirennzia I'd go with at minimum 285 rear 275 front. Ideally 295 rear and 285 front with streets.

With Hoosiers you can get away with stuffing big tire on smaller wheel without losing too much responsiveness so you can go a little bigger. 315r/295 f.
Here is my car on 285 front and 295 rears on 9.5 and 10.5 wheels. Very little float.

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Cl...8/JR1N2161.JPG

With that being said Shamu, would I benefit more with a 285/35 square setup over a 275/35 and 285/35 staggered setup? if you recommend a 285 on front but I don't have a 295 option on the rears for the RS3's. Or will the stagger benefit me more with turn in over a wider front?


Thanks everyone for all your input so far!

what front lip is the one on that picture?