Harness Bar vs 4 pt cage vs full cage
 

As I continue to gain some skill during HPDE sessions, I am getting more concerned about safety since the speeds are starting to pick up considerably. I would like to add a harness system so I can use a HANS device. I know I can accomplish this with a harness bar such as the Robispec option but am wondering if there really is a big advantage of installing a 4 pt cage. I know a handful of you have them and would appreciate your input. I would think what would you would really want is door bars which of course involve a full cage. What does the 4 pt cage get you - I don't see it being that protective in a collision with a tire wall/concrete wall. Obviously it would be useful in the rare chance of a rollover. Please enlighten me!

I'd stick with harness bar or rear roll bar and harness if your car will be driven on the street. Cages are very dangerous for street driving when you are not using harnesses and helmet

You don't use HANS on cars with air bags. If you want to use a harness move the child latch mount over to the drivers side and mount your harness sholder straps to that.

Shamu is DEAD ON about this. Cages are designed with the intent that you will be in full track attire...helmet, gloves, netting and so forth.

Your head bounces around like a pinball in a collision in most cases. OE engineers take this into account and design the interior accordingly. Adding a full cage adds tubing in proximity of your head that you could potentially strike in an accident. If you have a helmet on, this impact is not as bad. Without a helmet.....you can imagine.

+1 vote for either a harness bar or rear roll bar (Autopower, etc.).

Other than the harness bar the BGTV8 had made down in Australia, that mounted to the hard seatbelt shoulder mounting points, I'm not convinced any other harness bars are safe enough, but thats just my opinion. If I was keeping the interior and street driving, I would probably go with the Autopower weld in, which is designed for an interior, or have a 4 point custom made.

What about that GT Spec 4 Point bolt in bar ... does anyone have any thoughts on if it is suitable for attaching harnesses ?

GT Spec 4 Point

looks to me that that is more for chassis stiffness

I love my BGTV8 harness bar. Works great and the belt angle is right within the specs for my Schroth harness.

What about this?

http://www.the370z.com/brakes-suspen...rness-bar.html

I get that a full cage can only be used in a track only car.

I'm still not certain if a 4pt cage offers any safety advantage over a good harness bar and harness in a non-rollover collision.

Also, I was not aware you cannot use a HANS with an airbag equipped car. Why is that?

Thanks for the education guys!

I understand you said non-rollover but most incidents are side impacts. The 4point will help there also due to the main loop bar that surrounds midldle section of the car all the way to the floor. But also is you go into a spin there's a high chance it could roll.

Good points.

Now anyone want to tackle the no HANS if you have an airbag comment from above?

I'm not sure why it matters. I wore a HANS all summer and never disabled my airbags.

After a few hours of additional research I think there are only 2 good choices:

Best - 4 pt roll cage (not harness bar), fixed back racing seat (halo seat best), 5/6 pt harness, HANS device

2nd Best - Stock seat, 3 pt belts, full face helmet with visor down

Mixing and matching (i.e. harness setup without HANS) may actually be less safe.

For what it's worth, I still couldn't find any real reason why you need to disable airbag with a HANS. If you are using a harness system and a HANS and aren't 5'0" tall with your face 3 inches from the wheel, the stock airbag shouldn't even contact your head when deployed. However, it will probably beat your arms up!

I expect I would get some gas burns from my airbags but who doesn't?

In the event of a roll-over collision, a harness bar, especially with HANS, will pretty much guarantee that your spine is crushed by the weight of the car as the roof collapses on top of you.

The 3 pt belts allow you to move yourself out of the way, or for the roof to move you out of the way, in the event that the car gets suddenly shorter. A real harness will hold you firmly in place while you're forcibly shortened by 3000 pounds of awesome.

IF the roof collapses on you. I've seen plenty of rollovers that didn't crush the roof.

The structual design of our cars are pretty stout. I think it more so if you were to roll mulitple times is where it would come in to play. For each roll the structure will weaken.

Driving a street car on the track is always going to force compromise in safety. You're not going to be able to run all safety equipment a true track car can. You are circumventing many of safety designs street car has had engineered by factory when you start putting harnesses anspd race seats in a car. Safest cars are street cars with all safety systems intact on the street and full on race cars on the track.

For me I went with race seats, rear rollbar, airbag delete, schroth harnesses with neck brace and arm restraints. Is it perfect? nope. Could I be injured in serious mishap yep. It's personal choice. For me it was best compromise. I have some rollover protection, good race seats provide protection as well. My roll bar is 4 point system that is very solid. But let's say I go front half of roof into cement wall? I won't be a happy camper. Would be depending on hoop just behind my head to keep roof from crushing.

I'm getting HANS device for my setup.

Shamu, who did your roll bar? I'd like to eventually get a rear roll bar made...!!