Track alignment spec
 

Hi guys, any recommend for what would a good spec to start with the alignment for track and DD dual usage? What're the camber and toe setting? Or anything you have tried and worked? Thanks in advance. :tup:

Do you have camber arms?

2-2.5* all around is a pretty decent call for track time. I run 0 toe up front, and spec in the rear.

If you don't have camber arms, I'd try it with rears matched to the fronts, and the same toe settings as above.

Thank you buddy! So do you like running the same camber for F&R? Does the car need any toe in for the rear? I remember last time I tried my buddy's stock Z and it had good amount of grip for corner exiting. But the car was understeering during high speed cornering. I'm not sure if all the Z's are like that.

Personally, that has worked well for me.


The z is very prone to understeer, but dialing it out with just camber is tough. A stiffer rear sway is a good call.

Car does need rear toe. I just stick with stock spec.

hmm, i did some search and found out Nismo running some interesting camber setting:
Nismo 370

Front
Camber -.58
Caster 8.17
Toe 0.03

Rear
Camber -1.58
Toe 0.08


I think I will just start from square camber setting and go from there. Thanks.

Front camber is not adjustable, neither is front caster.

oh I didn't know that. So I need camber plate or camber arm or whatever to make it adjustable?

Yeah, which is why I said match rears to front if you don't have the plates.

Do these Eibach Alignment kit work?
Eibach Recommended Align. Kit

yes, it works. I have it. Be advised though, it is actually a repackaged SPC kit. It even has SPCs directions with it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. If anything, it gives SPC a little more credibility.

You can get front camber with a bolt? I thought you need a new control arm?

:iagree:

If so (with a bolt) how does that work?

I need more camber on my setup. I'm at 1.5F and 1.8R and being it's not DD I could defiantly do it with no sweat.

thats just a picture of the rear. the front is a new upper arm

Mike, what do you think of the SPC arms for the front? I know people have concerns about the single, non-locking bolt and them holding their alignment. Any issues or suggestions?

I wrote to SPL and they say their arms are a future project on the table but no official release date.

one of mine did not hold its alignment and I lost a track day due to it.

I would tend to think that if your going to just mess with camber/toe F+R, from stock you would want to toe it in slightly, keep the Fcamber maxd and the Rcamber maybe 1.6 so it doesnt get overly sticky through a corner compared to the front camber of 1.5 and gives you slightly better power delivery out of corners than say 1.8. This being a FR car with a natural weight bias to the front you would ideally want a little more camber up front (to reduce understeer) as thats where the weight is going into turns. This is not based on experience but just me thinking about it here for a min so i may be way off : )

It depends on how much street driving you do.

For an aggressive track alignment I use:

Front:
0.03 toe
-3.5 camber

Rear:
0.05 toe
-1.8 camber

This gives an aggressive turn in feel and good corner stability. I found that going beyond this for rear camber is detrimental overall. If you are street driving a lot I would back the camber down slightly.

0.03 and 0.05 are toe in or toe out? I guess toe in?

Yes, positive is toe-in.

Thank you. I will try that spec. I'm on stock alignment still, the car is pretty under during turn in. I could feel the understeering even driving on streets.

The low speed understeer can get worse if you add stiffer springs or sway bar bars but the increased camber more than compensates for it.

Do you have sway bars?

not yet. and I notice body roll a lot as well. I might go with away bars, full stiff front and full rear rear, then play with the camber like Chris suggests.

Why sway bars would make this worse?

If memory serves, chris is running hotchkis bars. His dynamic is very different than the stock car. I would not recommend that alignment on a stock setup (or at least be prepared to play around with it a bunch)

Stiff sway bars prevent weight transfer, the weight transfer helps to give compressed camber gain, so without this gain it is like you have even less camber than stock.

Yes, I started out with the stock car and Hotchkis sway bars and SPC camber arms (and that alignment). If you don't have aftermarket sway bars you won't need as much camber up front.

Mine is -3 camber -.01 toe front and
-2.5 /.04 rear

Although it is true that a stiffer swaybar will prevent body roll and thus reduce the camber gain on the outside wheel, because the car rolls more you need more camber gain...so it is really not about the reduction in camber gain.

A stiffer swaybar actually transfers more vertical load on the outside wheel and reduce the vertical load on the inside tire. This is the nature of a swaybar as the outside tire gets pushed up, the bar will start to put some of that upward force onto the inside tire...thus decreasing the vertical load on the inside tire.

This increase in the difference between the outside and inside tire vertical load means the overall lateral grip will be less. The reason for this is something called the tire performance curve. I added is a picture of a tire performance curve from my app below. Basically as you increase the vertical load on a tire it does increase it's lateral grip, but the increase in lateral grip is not linear. In other words for each 10lbs of vertical load you add to the outside tire you will get a smaller amount of incremental lateral grip. Conversely as you reduce vertical load on a tire, it looses a greater amount of lateral grip for every 10lbs of vertical load it looses.

This is a key reason why stiffer swaybars reduce lateral grip. This is why the end of the car you add a stiffer swaybar to will have less lateral grip.

So you might ask...why run swaybars at all? They are there to make the car handle more consistently and predictably and also to help with achieving the balance of the car you like.

I hope this helps.

Cheers
Martin Crisp
Setup Workbench - Home
iPhone version Setup App

Nice write up, so if one adds adjustable sway bars without adjustable camber plates should the sway bars be set to the softest settings on a complete stock suspension setup?

Wow there is so much more to this. What tire are you using? What shocks and bars, How wide are wheels and tires.

There isnt a set spec that is good for track in my opinion. It depends on your setup and tires. I was running -4 camber up front with 1/4 toe out and about -2.75 rear with a little toe in on my 370Z nismo with 1000 lb front spring and 450 lb rears. 37mm Progress front bar and stock nismo rear. 315 Hoosier A6 rear and 295 Hoosier a6 front.

On track that was ideal setup that Grand Am team settled on. Car was perfectly nueteral and tire heat/wear was ideal.

I went back to -2.75 front and -2.0 rear with similar toe recently and really dont like track handling compared to more aggressive alignment specs.

I hardly drive my car as DD as I commute to work on Motorcycle. I avg about 135 miles DD a week on 370z and track about 4-5 times a year.

I currently have set up as:
Front
Camber: -2.9
Toe: 0
Wheels: Stock Rays 19X9
Tires: Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
Size: 245/40R-19

Rear
Camber: -1.8
Toe: 0.2
Wheels: Stock Rays 19X10
Tires: Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
Size: 285/35R-19

I will be going 18x10.5 w/ Hankook R-S3, 285/35-18 Square setup soon.

I know a lot of people have recommended -1.8 camber in the rear due to the amount of compression our cars have. But it does not work for me. Maybe it's the weight I've removed but I have -2.3 rear. Also run 305 rear with true type Coilover setup.

I am doing -2.1 both front and rear at the moment.

i like this thread :tup:

This is good stuff... There seems to be a lot of ways to do it... I'm on swift springs with stock wheels. I put a camber kit in the rear and am getting an alignment on Friday. Was hoping to get back to stock specs initially, but there seems to be a lot of options, I drive my car on the street more than the track, but will auto cross and have an occasional trackday.

2010 with stock sport Rays, Accelera tires 245 front 275 rear with a cusco front sway, stock rear sway and tein lowering springs ... No idea what specs to get

When I set up my Z for the One Lap of America, I will be going with:

Front
Toe: 0
Camber -2.5

Rear:
Toe 1/16-1/8 total toe in
Camber -1.8

All settings will be done with a driver IN the driver's seat. Which I consider a necessity. Also, this is with stock springs and shocks, aftermarket front upper arms.

Tracy Ramsey

Pretty close to what I run. ;) Plus I have my caster set at +6

^^^ what they said. Pretty much what I run and the car feels great. Problem for me is I run so many different tire setups and switch between autox and HPDE. Seems to be a nice medium though.

Front (SPL)
Toe: -.05 (slight toe out)
Camber -3.3
Caster 8.7

Rear: (SPL camber and toe)
Toe: 0 (this did work but as I have softened the rear it now needs a little toe in)
Camber -2