I'll throw one other idea out there that has helped me somewhat... spend time driving AX/track with ABS off whether your classing allows it or not... use that time to dial in your setup... tune dampers, springs, tire pressure, brake pad selection, anything you can, until you get max braking performance without ABS... then turn ABS back on... I uncovered a lot of issues with my setup this way, and although I only have a few events since doing this no ice mode yet... that plus adding cooling to front brakes seems to have helped

I generally run (softer) mintex xtreme front pads... before I was running stiffer pads, and I had a low-speed wall contact at a lower speed track that involved over-heating brakes and ice mode... switched to softer compound and all was good... at faster tracks with high-speed transitions I am still using the stiffer compound and getting my best times that way... e.g., chuckwalla where all the braking is done at high speeds and the brakes get plenty of cooling

i know what the vdc is. I'm talking about the option menu on the left of the dash where there are two buttons.. there is an ice alarm which i do not know if it can sense icy roads or weather it can enable an ice mode. i did not play with it yet since I'm not in a a snow environment. but u can select to turn off or on the ice alarm.

That is just for the warning when the outside temperature drops to near freezing (37F) or below. It doesn't have any effect on the vehicle systems.

I only ran with the V12's for my first event. I didn't have any complaints.

I have a set of Starspec's now, which I'll be using for the first time in a couple of weeks.

oh ok. thanks for the info.

The StarSpec should be a world better than the V12s.

No doubt. The star specs are an amazing tire. I wish they made them in bigger sizes though.

Yeah, I am still pissed off they don't make it for our cars. I think they grip a little less than the RE11, but they feel better.

Yeah, I'm sure. I took them out for a quick test drive this weekend, and they felt really good. I really liked running a square setup too, felt very precise.

Now hopefully I can somehow manage to avoid ice mode again.

I suspect the car and driver magazine accident was caused by ice mode and not pad failure. I was at the track for past three days and ice mode was activating almost every hard braking turn. It was scary as heck. Suspect if you aren't having issues your not aggressively braking.

I ended up disconnecting the abs fuse which Nissan put in a cluster of 3 fuses. The car with my monster front brakes had a slight rear bias. That rear bias may be the issue. If you are skilled with non abs braking that is cheapest fix.

Honestly I don't want to experience ice mode ever and I don't think pad changes are going to eliminate the issue. I may go with very expensive alternate abs system made for competition later on.

Anyone think a proportioning valve may be a viable option? Disable the ABS, dial in the bias to your liking and then re-enable ABS.

Do you have a proportioning valve Travis or did you dial in the bias with pads only?

What front brakes are you running?

Also what pads are you using?

the added bonus of removing the fuse is disabling the abls right?

car and driver boiled their pads and fluids, it has nothing to do with ice mode. even with ice mode, the car would eventually calm down and slow the car. they went into the wal with lthe pedal sunk to the floor

Chris, to answer your question, I'm managing the balance with pads, and relative front-rear ride height, tire pressure and damper settings... patch-work at best... the real solution is unfortunately as Grant says - expensive aftermarket competition ABS computer... alternatively, if someone knows an engineer at Bosch or really really smart hacker maybe we can get some help mod'ing the stock ABS computer

Hm. I wonder how difficult it would be to mess around with the ABS unit. I've not checked to see details on it at all-- anybody know what we are working with in the stock unit?

So you are saying that you were experiencing ice mode at the track before pulling the abs fuse? And after pulling the fuse, without any other modification to the brakes, you never experienced ice mode again?

If the answer is yes to both questions this really throws a wrench into my theory that ice mode was only related to heat buildup boiling the brake fluid. In my Z, I have completely cured (or I thought) ice mode by upgrading to CarboTech XP10/8 pads, Castrol SRF brake fluid, and brake ducts. Mind you that I run at Summit Point which has only two heavy brake events both under 125 mph.

My problem with the abs theory on this forum was that all the posts seemed to be speculation. I had never seen (or read) any real substantive evidence pointing to the abs. However, if pulling the fuse completely cured the problem this seems to be the first substantive repeatable evidence that there are some gremlins in the abs system.

I think you may have ruined my day…:mad:

I still standby that it is heat related. The heat in the front is either affecting the brake balance or in some other way affecting the ABS system. At auto-x if I spray down the front brakes after each run (yes I know this is very bad) then I don't get ice-mode at all, if I let them ride then I get spontaneous ice mode once the rotors get above 300F (post run measurement).

carbotech AX6 in the front, stock pad in the rear? would something like that work for autox? or is there enough heat building up in the pad that an XP8 front and AX6 rear might do the trick? in my solstice, i run AX6 front, XP8 rear, since the bias is slightly forward (and there is no funky brake assist/abs computer programming), but my understanding is that it's the opposite in the 370. i love the moderate initial bite (compared to RS4 and HP+ pads) and linear braking characteristics of the CT's, and the amount of heat they can handle!

I don't think so. I had ice mode into first turns with no heat in brakes, had ice mode mid session and late session. My brakes are Brembo competition calipers with huge floating rotors. No over heating.

No balance issue when we disconnected abs. Nothing but solid pedal and awesome braking force.

I had same ice issues with sport brakes, sport rotors and stop tech pads. Used only good Motul fluid and stainless lines. Pedal to the floor and no brake force

I'm still going to try to hook up abs and work on things but honestly my system without abs is balanced and takes a lot to get wheel lock up.

And I still say car and driver experienced ice mode regarless of what was reported.

I don't think heat is a primary factor too, but heat seems to create a havoc with me where the car would pull to one side under braking. I got the ice mode at VIR, but not at the Glen. I still believe it is mainly because of the bumps over at T1

You likely changed the brake balance when installing the competition calipers to something that made sense for a non-abs race setup, however you seriously would have upset the ABS controller by altering the stock brake bias. In a sense you caused the ice-mode yourself by shifting the braking bias to something the ABS computer isn't programmed to handle.

With the stock setup if your pedal went to the floor then it was hydraulic brake fade due to overheating the caliper and boiling the fluid. I experienced that with the stock setup as well.

Here is an easy to tell the difference between ice mode and brake fade.

Brake fade=pedal goes straight to the floor with no braking power
Ice mode=pedal sometimes goes straight to the floor, but you will hear the ABS pulsating. You cant really miss it.

If your pedal goes to the floor you have brake fade, whether the ABS pulses or not. If the ABS is pulsing at the same time then you were probably locking up the rear brakes as a result of the fronts failing.

The annoying ice-mode occurs when you haven't overheated the brakes yet and the pedal stays rock solid. To me this only occurs after the brakes have warmed up and been heat soaked for at least 10-15 minutes.

From what I remember, I have had instances where the pedal went slightly softer and the ABS just pulsate.

Sounds like front pad fade, the first indicator the brakes are overheating. What pads were you using at the time?

i cant fade the front brakes in an autox that we dont reach 40mph and the runs are 28 secs long...

LOL, fair enough.

Whenever I hit "ice mode" the pedal is hard as a rock. It maybe moves 30% then is solid with the ABS going and almost no braking force.

:iagree: Same thing as in the 350Z.

Pedal going soft and further then usual, is boiled fluid...

I can't even boil water in a lot this small

YouTube - 0511 370z autox

With track pads, I can make ice mode happen at will. All you have to do is stomp the brakes as hard as you can. The ABS will come on, the pedal will be rock solid, and the car will initially bite and then braking force goes to $hit. If I keep constant hard pressure, the car bites and lets go, bites and lets go...until I'm stopped. Stopping in the autoX stop box is embarrassing.

Two questions- could someone potentially experience ice mode during a panic stop on the street? and how the hell has nissan not gotten sued over this yet?

It can happen on the street, but I could only reproduce it on the street after thoroughly heating up the brakes with lots of hard deliberate braking and then driving around casually for 10 minutes. It seems unlikely on the street, but with the right conditions I suppose it could happen.

I'm convinced I had ice mode during my accident in December. Only caveat was that I was on ice.

Id be intersted to see if another 370Z could brake as well as my car in braking zone with my ABS off. I can threshold brake with minimum of lock up and never have to deal with ice mode or even overly aggressive abs mode on fast deep braking zones. I know I couldnt come close with my abs system on. I'm an aggresive and deep braker but I am smooth as I dont lock up my tires or unsettle the car even with abs off.

For me a poorly designed abs system like the stock system on the 370Z is worse than no abs with a skilled driver when your on a track that requires threshold braking from high speeds

I was busy and had to leave my XP10s on the past two weeks. In an autox at a smooth lot two weeks ago, the brakes were fine. On a bumpy lot this past Sunday, I experienced ice mode no matter how soft or hard I got on the throttle. I ended up having to brake at least one set of gate earlier and I still had trouble making through the turns as the brakes would grab and then go into ice mode. I understand my race pads had everything to do with it, but god the ABS is awful. Brake temperature might not help the situation, but I can tell you ice mode hit from turn 1 to the last turn. It just wouldn't go away no matter what I tried. The aggressive pads and the less than ideal surface had everything to do with it. I had no problem at a smooth lot just a week ago.

A car with a skilled driver and no ABS will stop faster than a car with ABS. It's well known that ABS increases braking distances. But it's the best solution for people who won't threshold brake correctly.

This is true in a straight line. However when you're braking mid corner (not uncommon in auto-x) or don't have your brake bias dialed in then it will be longer and/or increase your chance of lock up.

also pretty typical in a passing situation... I locked up and had a couple offs trying to pass on a dirty line, was exacerbated by a bad setup and my lack of threshold braking skills but clearly would not have happened with ABS

I fixed my 350Z by removing the Yaw-sensor that controls the VDC...then all my braking issues went away. Mainly the hard pedal and the inside corner brake overheating (VDC was trying to straighten the car out of a slide)...all these occurred during full-on track seasons with OEM Brembos and Carbotech XP10 F & R, Hoosier R6 tires...

Not sure if this can be done on a 370Z, But I would assume so...

http://my350z.com/forum/5506158-post1.html