Bosch M5 Clubsport ABS kit
 

Decided to start another thread for this question.

My question is, the Bosch M5 Clubsport ABS kit, is also available for our cars. Can that be installed and still keep use of all other OE functions? That setup, while still expensive, would be worth it IMO if you can still retain the other OE functions (speedo, etc.). The Bosch M5 Clubsport is like 7K. Yes, it's crazy expensive, but alot less expensive than putting my Nismo into a wall. I've reached out to some vendors, but still waiting for an answer.

I know Austin Hertel, he races in the same series as I do (with another car), but I built a "clubsport" Nismo that's a hardcore track car. The MK60 isn't an option for me because it deletes all other electronic functions like speedo/tach/etc. etc. The only way to do MK60 and keep the other OE stuff is to install an additional 4 wheel speed sensors and run BOTH ABS setups, which is ridiculous, and not really feasible for a street car.

I had my car lockup, yes, lockup the front wheels going into a corner where you have a slight bit of wheel in the car. It doesn't like that at all. Instead of giving me ABS pules, or Ice Mode, which it's done in that same corner before, this time, it just went to straight lockup, and torched my right front tire. That is some crazy stuff. I own all kinds of track cars, and this is by far the worst ABS I've ever driven on. I have the right size tires F/R, have the right stagger in rear pads, all the best brake cooling. Years and years of driving and racing, so I know how to brake. What this means is that if you aren't perfect, which nobody is from time to time, then this will bite you, bad. That's just not an acceptable outcome, because if it happened at another track, I'd have been in a wall.

i wonder if you could put a translation layer between the MK60 that listen to its can messages, and outputs nissan can messages that emulate the original abs can messages.
An arduino that can read the mk60 can messages and then write nissan can messages (whatever the messages were the old abs was writing)
Then you wouldn't need to maintain the oem abs unit.

You can run the mk60 and still keep the speedo/tach and rev match.

http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...bsport-gt.html

isn't that only if you keep the abs module and speed sensors connected?

PLEASE let me know how this is possible without running another 4 additional wheel speed sensors?

Just the rear needs four more I believe. http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...ml#post4015181

No, each corner uses a wheel speed sensor for ABS. This is the problem with the MK60 for a street car, it requires an insane amount of fab work that requires taking the hubs off the car and custom machining new holes to fit new wheel speed sensors. I'm just not going to do that, looking for another way.

Bosch is the OE ABS, so if the Bosch motosport unit can be used, I'll go that route, as the cost of the unit will certainly offset the labor costs of the MK60 method.

The factory ABS module sends out these messages on the CAN bus:
• Individual wheel speed
• ABS active signal
• ABS warning light status
• Brake warning light (low fluid)
• VDC off light
• VDC warning light
• brake line pressure (~1500 psi at a full ABS stop!!)
• side (lateral) g acceleration
• engine torque reduction signal (for VDC)
• TCS hold gear request

Some of these signals have counters and checksum that can be difficult to calculate correctly. If the data payload doesn't have the proper format, it is not accepted by the other modules.

I think there is an easier solution:
Why not tap into the existing wheel speed sensors and have them connected to the factory ABS module AND the MK60?

• The factory ABS module only needs electrical connections.
All hydraulic connections can be removed.
This will keep the speedo and syncro rev match functions working.

• Then set up the MK60 as a stand alone ABS and connect to the car's brake lines.

This will give you better ABS BUT you won't have any traction control or stability control... which shouldn't be a problem for a track/race car.

The sharing of the wheel speed sensors may require some signal conditioning as the load is sees (current) is a little greater. If required, using a MOSFET would easily handle this task as they are a voltage switching device unlike a transistor which is a current switching device.

I will be doing my front brakes in the next few weeks and will scope my wheel speed sensors to see if the signal is a 12v / 0v pulse (hall sensor), or if the pulse is 0.5v on top of a ~11 volt signal. (magnetoresistive sensor)

Fun fact:
@ 160 MPH the wheel RPM is about 2,000 RPM (for 84.3" circumference) and that is 33.33 revs/second (2000/60). With 48 teeth on the hub tone ring, that equals a frequency of ~1600 Hz or 1600 pulses per second. This is what the ABS module processes.

MK60 will disable speedo, but not the tachometer.

I could be wrong, but I doubt the Bosch unit will let you keep the OE functions unless you run the OE ABS together to keep original speed sensors communicating to the OE ABS module and the CAN communications from OE ABS to the ECU

Not if you run the wheel speed sensors to both modules... the MK60 module as a standalone and keep the "electronics" part of the factory ABS module connected.

The Better Option
The other option is for me to build a CAN bus gateway that receives/converts the MK60 wheel speed (CAN bus ID 0x1F0) and send it to the speedometer CAN ID.

Then you just remove the factory ABS module, add the MK60 and my module and you will have MK60 ABS, with speedometer. The ECU sends the engine RPM to the cluster via CAN bus, so that always works.

With the above you won't have stability control or traction control.

The same module could be reprogrammed for the Bosch ABS unit. It sends wheel speed using CAN ID 0x24A and it would be received and converted from m/s to MPH, then sent to the factory cluster for an operational speedometer.

The 370, G37, and GTR (and most Nissan/Infinities from this era) use the same CAN bus architecture. This means all speedo messages or wheel speed or brake line pressure are encoded the same way.

Below is a short video showing some of the results of my CAN bus research.
The exact same code will also work on a 370, or GTR and most other Nissan/Infiniti's of that era.

Controlling the G37 gauges using CAN Bus! Motorvate's DIY Garage Ep.37
https://youtu.be/lWDMs2Ql58g

That would indeed be the best option. Because with the MK60/Continental setup, we can use our stock wheel speed sensors, and the cost is less than half that of the Bosch unit. I would be happy to purchase your module. PM sent to discuss further.

That's fine, I already run without them at all times anyway. I'll be using the MK60-based Continental Motorsport ABS solutions - these systems use units from the MK60, MK60E1, and MK60E5 families of ABS modules. This should still be using the same CAN bus ID 0x1F0 as a standard MK60. Regardless, count me in for one of your modules, this is perfect.

Update:
Sorry to say, but at this time, we don't have the resources to develop a MK60 to 370z speedometer module, as our G37 mini-dash / LCD gauges are about to start production.

This will be revisited once the G37 gauges are launched.

Keep me posted. If people knew this was an option, I think the market would grow quickly!

Why not just go with a custom dash like Austin? I believe he’s running an aim dash/data logger with the mk60

Ok, I will :)

That's one solution and a very good one...
Another solution could be a small ~$100 black box to allow the factory gauges to work.

I'll take the little black box. ;)
The other solution is only realistic for race cars, not street cars.

Do you have a part number or year/make/model to source an MK60?

I see that there are different versions/part numbers used and I want to look into the cost of buying one.

I want to use the mk60/continental teves setup that is sold by Racing Harness Tech. Any news yet on your can bus gateway box. I desperately need this!

Bosch M5 Clubsport ABS kit
 

Does the RHT conversion use OEM abs wheel speed sensors? If so could you tap/split the existing sensor output signals to duplicate the signal and send to the mk60? That way you’d electrically retain the OEM ABS systems for speedo functionality, but you’d add the MK60 system without the need to mount 4 additional wheel speed sensors in the car

Electronics are not my forte so maybe splitting the sensor output signal is a BS idea… lol

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https://www.tracktuned.com/feed/mk60absswapguide

several sources i've found that reused the factory wheels speed sensors.

not sure if that means that their speedometers still work tho

Good find on the video and article. The install actually doesn’t seem all that bad. I wonder what the Racing Harness Technology harness costs?


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I'm wondering if we could install an ABS pump/module from a 400Z? Which doesn't seem to have the same ABS issues at the track if you brake too hard, and/or have a little lock in the wheel (i.e. 4 wheel lockups that cause crashes).

I'm a club racer, tons of experience driving, know how to brake, have all the yaw sensor deletes, TC off on my car and I've flat spotted all 4 tires twice from the ABS freaking out and locking up. The ABS program in our cars is awful if you are really pushing it, you simply cannot push things in the brake zones. That's a problem for a track car. Sure certain tracks have those problematic corners, but I've done it twice at two different home tracks. Admittedly, I was trying to replicate it the second time on a corner I know was safe to brake late, and whammo, full 4 wheel lockup. Explain to me how that is possible when your car has ABS? LOL.

Ok, been talking to the Delta ABS guys, who make a nice, newer, cheaper alternative to the Bosch ABS stuff. I told them about how the removal of OE ABS sensors cause the loss of RPM/MPH function, and I want to retain that, and this was their response below. Any of you 370Z electronic guys

Talked to a few TT/race guys a track event using this system and they really liked it.

https://www.deltaabs.com/

The Delta ABS system transmits data via can, so if you can find someone to program a can bridge of some kind to transmit wheel speed data back to the factory cluster then you can retain that functionality, but the CAN stream within the Delta ABS unit is fixed and is not configurable. The Delta ABS system is very much universal, and if you have two-wire hall effect wheel speed sensors from the factory then you can reuse those and simply install the included wiring harness and ABS module and sensors, there are no vehicle specific instructions, installation and setup is the same on virtually any vehicle.