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-   -   Weight Reduction (http://www.the370z.com/track-autocross-drifting-dragstrip/135224-weight-reduction.html)

Rusty 12-24-2020 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 3978454)
What if you rebuild the chassis out of titanium? I bet that would get you some weight savings!

Ti isn't stiff enough. It has more flex in it then either aluminum or steel.

JARblue 12-24-2020 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3978560)
Ti isn't stiff enough. It has more flex in it then either aluminum or steel.

How about unobtanium?

Jmatchley86 12-24-2020 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 3978454)
What if you rebuild the chassis out of titanium? I bet that would get you some weight savings!

while your at it fill the titanium tubes with helium for extra lightness

Rusty 12-24-2020 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 3978571)
How about unobtanium?

You can do what ever you want with that stuff. :tup:

Rusty 12-24-2020 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmatchley86 (Post 3978586)
while your at it fill the titanium tubes with helium for extra lightness

Porsche used to fill the chassis tubes on the 917 racer with N2 and had a gauge on the dash. If the gauge dropped pressure. The chassis had a crack and would fail in short time. Causing an accident. So it gave the drivers a chance to slow down.

victorofhavoc 12-24-2020 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3978622)
Porsche used to fill the chassis tubes on the 917 racer with N2 and had a gauge on the dash. If the gauge dropped pressure. The chassis had a crack and would fail in short time. Causing an accident. So it gave the drivers a chance to slow down.

That. Is. Amazing. And absolutely genius.

Happy holidays!

Rusty 12-24-2020 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorofhavoc (Post 3978623)
That. Is. Amazing. And absolutely genius.

Happy holidays!

Back in the 70's. Some Nascar crews chiefs used to stuff extra fuel line in the chassis. Sometimes being able to add another 3~4 gallons of fuel. This would give them another lap or two before pitting.

justin_boy 12-25-2020 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3978625)
Back in the 70's. Some Nascar crews chiefs used to stuff extra fuel line in the chassis. Sometimes being able to add another 3~4 gallons of fuel. This would give them another lap or two before pitting.

can we make a thread "Rusty's racecar fact of the day"

victorofhavoc 12-25-2020 08:18 AM

I'm in full support of this idea!

Wigjiggy 12-25-2020 05:34 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I spent a lot of time stripping out weight, just to gain a LOT of it back with the monster cage, fire system and cool shirt. Still ST3/TT3 HP/weight ratio with NASA, but always looking for additional weight reduction. Looks like my best option now is to hit the New Years resolution hard and loose some driver weight.

Wigjiggy 12-25-2020 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz (Post 3977920)
You are going to always chasing something in the Z when it comes to balancing. All bets are off for those of us TT kits. I also added a larger bash bar to mount the splitter to. The biggest bang for the buck is a lightweight battery. You can gain more weight functional control by getting lighter rotors and wheels. If you are going for mostly racecar then get rid of creature comforts like the AC and condenser. You can go all out and remove the heater core and blowers. From there it is all about suspension up front. Get a good set of coilovers.

The rear you will want a wing and contrary to popular belief they do work at relatively slow speeds. Most the tracks I run on are less than 2 miles long and heavy car or not most everyone in a competitive series runs one if they are allowed. I was shocked how much the wing helped on the Miata! We took it off and she was ha handful on anything over 45 mph.

Also having spent some time with the crew from Nissan that has been to the last few ZDAYZ events and them providing us a tour of the Nissan Heritage Museum, which is not open to the public we talk about the need for better grip and rotation of the rear of the car. Jeremy promptly took me over to one of the 280z race cars and showed me their solution. There was a post welded on each side of the rear wheel well were they added weight directly over the wheel to gain additional mechanical grip. He said the additional weight was worth it in lap times. In fact the Nissan Pace Car they brought to ZDAYZ, a 300 Z, they added about 300 lbs to the trunk to make it behave on the track due to the power level of the car. It was essentially their Trans AM car. Anyway Jeremy suggested I do the same as they did with the 280z. We will see how well the wing does.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I agree. The wing helps a lot, even at “slower” speeds. Balance is much better. I run the ARP 300 CF wing and an alumilite splitter that I made myself. Business in the front - party in the back!

Wigjiggy 12-25-2020 05:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmatchley86 (Post 3976406)
The trackspec ones work very well. I have them on my car and it solved my heat issue.

Check out racelouvers.com. They (Al) makes a kit for the 370z. I have their fender louvers, and would have gone with their hood louvers if I didn’t already have Trackspec.

03threefiftyz 12-26-2020 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wigjiggy (Post 3978719)
I spent a lot of time stripping out weight, just to gain a LOT of it back with the monster cage, fire system and cool shirt. Still ST3/TT3 HP/weight ratio with NASA, but always looking for additional weight reduction. Looks like my best option now is to hit the New Years resolution hard and loose some driver weight.

You could probably drop another 10-15lbs overall by pulling out the door bars since you have NASCAR bars....

03threefiftyz 12-26-2020 07:17 AM

1 Attachment(s)
These are my doors fwiw...~4lbs each:

Wigjiggy 12-26-2020 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03threefiftyz (Post 3978772)
You could probably drop another 10-15lbs overall by pulling out the door bars since you have NASCAR bars....

Good point. I’ll look at that today. Thanks.

Wigjiggy 12-26-2020 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03threefiftyz (Post 3978773)
These are my doors fwiw...~4lbs each:

Very nice. Since the doors on the 370z are aluminum, I’m thinking that going to carbon wouldn’t get me a whole lot of weight saving. Same thing with the hood and rear hatch. How much do your doors weigh?

victorofhavoc 12-26-2020 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03threefiftyz (Post 3978773)
These are my doors fwiw...~4lbs each:

What carbon doors are you using? Or did you just make your own from an oe two piece mold?

victorofhavoc 12-26-2020 08:08 AM

With a full cage, your definition of "door" could be quite malleable, wigjiggy. All you need is a shape/contour, a hinge, and a "lock". This could be just a two layer carbon or Kevlar laminate and weigh 3-4 lbs or less. The locking and hinge mechanisms don't even need to be structural so you could shave some grams there...

Wigjiggy 12-26-2020 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorofhavoc (Post 3978777)
With a full cage, your definition of "door" could be quite malleable, wigjiggy. All you need is a shape/contour, a hinge, and a "lock". This could be just a two layer carbon or Kevlar laminate and weigh 3-4 lbs or less. The locking and hinge mechanisms don't even need to be structural so you could shave some grams there...

Good point. Thanks. I may start by just cutting as much as possible out of the door. Then weigh it and determine if a switch to CF is worth it.

Wigjiggy 12-26-2020 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorofhavoc (Post 3978777)
With a full cage, your definition of "door" could be quite malleable, wigjiggy. All you need is a shape/contour, a hinge, and a "lock". This could be just a two layer carbon or Kevlar laminate and weigh 3-4 lbs or less. The locking and hinge mechanisms don't even need to be structural so you could shave some grams there...

I’ve also seen guys cut a LOT of the interior structure out since the cage is now there to support it. I’m a little leery of that.

victorofhavoc 12-26-2020 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wigjiggy (Post 3978779)
I’ve also seen guys cut a LOT of the interior structure out since the cage is now there to support it. I’m a little leery of that.

If you do end up cutting out I'm really curious what the difference is! I'm in the process of making a carbon splitter right now, so more carbon work might be in my future... I know I'm going to try my own headlight panels, but I may try a hood or door, too eventually.

I've known quite a few mechanics who recommend pulling the interior reinforcement once you have a full cage. In fact, pulling the a pillar supports gives more room for the cage and those pillars are actually pretty heavy on most cars.

If you look at your door cage, I bet it could take at least twice the abuse the little bent sheet metal in the factory door could.

03threefiftyz 12-27-2020 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorofhavoc (Post 3978776)
What carbon doors are you using? Or did you just make your own from an oe two piece mold?

I'm not sure he is still actively making 350/370z parts, but...
https://www.exact-performance.com/exact-performance

He has his hands full being the official McLaren Body Repair guy for the Chicago area. Though that should give you some level of indication to the quality of his carbon work.

Mn23 01-02-2021 04:11 PM

Hey guys, I know stripping the interior pieces (all side and rear panels and mats) reduce mostly the weight in the rear only, but will corner balance after fixes the weight distribution problem? I want to lighten the track car but at the same time keeping front dash panels. Any thoughts?

victorofhavoc 01-02-2021 05:19 PM

Corner balancing only really effects tree car left to right. Front to rear balance change with ride height is impractical.

Any less weight is good weight. There are other things to balance the front to rear rotation besides just weight. Aero sure helps, but you can also go softer on rear or remove rear bar, etc. Many factors to consider.

Wigjiggy 01-03-2021 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mn23 (Post 3979760)
Hey guys, I know stripping the interior pieces (all side and rear panels and mats) reduce mostly the weight in the rear only, but will corner balance after fixes the weight distribution problem? I want to lighten the track car but at the same time keeping front dash panels. Any thoughts?

I had to remove the dash and carve it up in order to fit around the new cage. What surprised me is how light it actually is. Just a big piece of covered foam, so I decided to keep it and look for weight reduction elsewhere. Once you’re behind it, you can easily remove all of the HVAC ducting to save some weight (assuming you’ve already deleted the HVAC systems).

Note on removing the dash: there is a plastic bracket in the front near the windshield that I could not figure out how to remove, and was the only thing hanging up the removal, so I did what any good grassroots driver would do, and just jerked it out, breaking the bracket. Oh well - don’t need it anyway.

Mn23 01-28-2021 04:40 PM

Thanks guys, I'm just planning to remove all the interiors but leave the front dash as is, like Ryan@Forged mentioned in an old post and got about 300lbs including seats. So I guess adding back my racing seats should still net me around 200lbs saving? Is this worth it? I was surprise to see this much savings just from removing basic interior pieces. I want to keep the AC and HVAC for now...

victorofhavoc 01-28-2021 09:37 PM

A 330hp car weighing 3000lbs is the same power to weight as a 363hp car that weighs 3300. Beyond that the lighter car has to be going faster to generate the same kind of forces on the tire at the limit. You get a car that's faster through corners and faster down the straight; any weight down is worth it.

Mn23 02-01-2021 07:33 PM

Is there really 200 lbs savings just by removing all basic interiors (all minus front dash) like Ryan@forged posted? Have been reading up on youtube and ppl get around 50lbs for the rear panels, will the carpets, side door panels and roof liners all add up a lot more?

Wigjiggy 07-10-2021 03:11 PM

Glass weight
 
Just removed my windshield and rear hatch glass, and installed 1/4 inch poly from Shields Windshields as replacement. 2013 370Z. Here are weight results

OEM windshield 23.8 lbs
Poly windshield 16.0 lbs
7.8 lb savings

OEM rear hatch 17.8 lbs
Poly rear hatch 10.4 lbs
7.4 lb savings

Full disclosure on weighing technique: I weighed myself on a good bathroom scale, then weighed again holding the glass and subtracted to get the difference. Not too scientific, but should be close enough.

justin_boy 07-14-2021 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wigjiggy (Post 4001935)
Just removed my windshield and rear hatch glass, and installed 1/4 inch poly from Shields Windshields as replacement. 2013 370Z. Here are weight results

OEM windshield 23.8 lbs
Poly windshield 16.0 lbs
7.8 lb savings

OEM rear hatch 17.8 lbs
Poly rear hatch 10.4 lbs
7.4 lb savings

Full disclosure on weighing technique: I weighed myself on a good bathroom scale, then weighed again holding the glass and subtracted to get the difference. Not too scientific, but should be close enough.

wow thanks for the info

Wigjiggy 08-01-2021 04:00 PM

A few more weights from my 2013 370Z:

OEM Hood (with trackspeck vent) 28.5lbs
HVAC blower fan (behind glovebox) 5.4lbs
Blower unit / heater core (behind radio/HVAC controls) 12.6lbs
Dash and driver-facing bezel 10.2lbs


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