Recommendation for a good wheel balance shop?
 

Hi guys!

Any recommendations for a good wheel balance shop in the DFW metroplex area?

I've been to three different shops. While some got closer to decent results, others have made it worse. They've all been done with the Hunter RoadForce GSP9700.

Thank you in advance!

:tiphat:

Are you sure that wheel balance is the problem? Most tire shopes balance tons of wheels every day and make few mistakes, and especially that Hunter machine is pretty idiot-proof. I've never had problems using $random_nearest_tire_shop.

Good point. I'm not 100% sure. However, depending on the shop, the vibration becomes better or worse. So, some guys have done it better than others. Especially since the weights are not exactly in the same areas as before.

I've hand torqued the bolts to 80lbs in a star pattern. I don't sense warped rotors either since my braking is fine. I've tried to find out if factory wheel locks offset the balance from the factory lugs in any way and most people have said that it shouldn't affect it at all. :confused:

I'd still suspect something else if you've already tried balance 3 times at different shops, all with nice machines.

Since you mention factory locks/lugs, I assume it's factory wheels? Have you added spacers or done any suspension work? Can you characterize the vibration? (Does it seem to come from the front or rear? Only in certain speed ranges? Accel vs Decel vs Steady Throttle vs Coasting in Neutral, etc?).

I assume the tire shops that did the balancing would have looked at the tires and wheels themselves for damage/defect. Hit any potholes or curbs lately? Check tires for bulges from a broken belt or crazy uneven wear patterns from bad alignment?

I appreciate the help, wstar! :tiphat:

Yes, factory lugs, locks, wheels and original Potenza RE050's. All suspension and brakes are stock as well. I do have 15mm Z1 stud-replacement spacers all around though.

Hub Centric Wheel Spacers & Extended Studs

I've gotten to the point where there's barely (but still there) a slight steering wheel vibration before on smooth, black asphalt at 70-90mph. But it's been screwed up since from further balancing since I'm a perfectionist. :shakes head:

I'm pretty certain it's coming from the front. It feels like theres a patch of hardened gum or layers of duct tape on one of the tires. I can feel it on the steering wheel while in a straight line between 70-90mph on a smooth road. Sometimes it's visible in the steering wheel but sometimes it's just felt. It's not constant, which puzzles me even further. It doesn't seem to get worse or better with throttle changes or just coasting.

No curb rash, no potholes. Tires look good. I'm sure one of the shops would've pointed out any tire damage or runoff - especially with the RoadForce machine, no?

I've got 14k miles on them. No track time and 20%/80% city/highway commute. Are the stock RE050's that bad when wearing down? Are they the Z1 spacers (which I were told were a reputable product and shouldn't cause a problem when in stalled properly?)

I've only gotten one alignment done since new and it was done by a shop that solely work on track cars and suspension settings, so I'm sure they would've mentioned if something was out of whack.

I know I can get close to a year's worth out of the original RE050's, but if they're the culprit, I don't mind replacing them sooner with something better.

Also, if the Z1 spacers are the culprit, do you have any recommendations on other brands? I'm not sure if I can use the current longer studs with the factory lugs/locks if I were to remove them completely.

Again, maybe I should've just stuck with the "barely noticeable on occasion" feeling than screwing it up further by getting them rebalanced and getting MORE vibration instead of less. :(

I have the same spacers on the rear of my car (in 10mm, but with aftermarket studs and wheels), and I wouldn't expect a problem with them since they're through-hole and pretty simple.

Whoever installed the 15mm spacers must have installed the +20mm studs as well, right? Any chance something went wrong there and you have a messed up wheel bearing? (e.g. from banging the old studs out or new studs in).

Assuming the wheels and tires are fine, the next best guesses are the wheel bearings and basically any of the suspension joints, of which there are many. Maybe go back to the suspension shop that aligned the car before and ask them to diagnose the vibration? Since they have experience with this stuff, they'll probably pull on a few things here or there and find the culprit pretty quickly.

Given how new and low-mileage the car is, one wouldn't expect any of those things to have just worn out on their own by now, but something could've become damaged or abused somehow (especially wheel bearings from stud installation). Sometimes wheel bearings are easy to tell, if you jack the car up and pull on the wheel with your hands enough to move the steering back and forth. You kinda have to know what you're feeling for, though (looseness other than the actual steering movement, basically), and not all bearing problems show up this way.

Yes, the +20mm. I don't think I messed up anything. It's pretty straight forward. I've replaced springs, shocks, struts, sways, end links, etc in the past on other cars as well. I did hit the original studs out with a hammer per procedure, but not hard enough to damage a bearing, I would suspect. There are much worse road conditions across the US and harder driven Z's than mine, so why or how would the bearings be that sensitive to knocking out a few stud bolts?

I pulled the knew studs in with the washers and nut method (pic attached of similar procedure) and a torque wrench. It took me a while since my impact gun isn't strong enough and I didn't want to damage anything.

I did jack up the car to where both wheels were off the ground and grabbed the 3 and 9 o'clock positions and pushed/pulled in and out to mimic steering, but found no play at all. (I did up and down - 12 and 6 o'clock as well just to make sure.)

I'll make an appointment with the suspension shop early next week and see if they can look over everything. Definitely cheaper than ordering new wheel bearings for the front wheels (both since I don't know which one(s) are bad.)

Let me know how it goes. I've had to chase gremlins like this before on my car; it's no fun and can get frustrating, but there is a rational answer in there somewhere.

FWIW: I don't think hammering out studs is generally going to destroy your bearings, assuming it's done with a little care and they're not ridiculously stuck in there, but I guess you never know. Since I swap my studs out relatively-often, I've switched to using a ball-joint separator tool ( exactly like this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...mage_12294.jpg ) to press them out. You put the forked end behind and around the head of the stud, and the single end on the threaded end, then just tighten it down.

Thank you! I'm always at Harbor Freight, so I may pick up that nifty tool if it looks like I'll have to replace the wheel bearings.

I appreciate all your input, wstar! :tiphat:

wstar,

Not sure if you're still following this thread.

I went back to my alignment/suspension guys, Texas Track Works in Fort Worth.

Prior to going there though, I did replace all my 15mm Z1 spacers with 15mm from H&R. They did improve things SLIGHTLY. However, it was still present between 65 and 80mph. Traffic prevented me from going any faster.

They checked the alignment and said everything looked fine. Then we went for a test drive. The roads out in Fort Worth are all concrete and quite irregular, so we weren't able to get that smooth asphalt to feel the vibration.

He said it was probably the spacers. He doesn't think it's an out of balance rotor nor wheel bearings. He DID say the tires are well past their halfway wear point and did sound very loud and thought they could be the culprit as well - either wear, out of round or just a bad tire.

I'd hate to replace the tires with a few months still left on them if that's not the problem. I don't see a rotor being out of balance either, but that's the cheapest of the routes right now. I could replace the bearings since I now have duplicate extended studs from my H&R spacers.

Any further recommendations?

Replace oem rotors? Replace bearings? Ditch the OEM RE050A's?

I don't want to do any more mods to this car until I get this pesky vibration resolved first. :shakes head:

Basically every time you take it apart and put it back together, it's likely things will change slightly, but if the vibration's still there after switching brands of spacers it doesn't seem likely the spacers are the issue.

If the tires are the culprit, it should be obvious to a tire person looking at them. The two basic ways tires can be bad that cause vibration are: (1) Some kind of defect or failure in the tire, like a broken belt or tread delamination: if this vibration's been going on for a while, this should be obvious on close inspection, e.g. a single very odd wear area on the tire (like a spot a few inches in diameter on the tire that's worn way more or way less than everything around it), or a bulge in the tread, or some kind of cracking/separation starting to appear near where the main bulk of the tread surface attaches to the sidewalls. (2) Lateral wear from running on bad toe settings (which will persist even after the toe is fixed): should be obvious on a tire-balancing machine. Basically spin up the wheel on the balance machine and stare at the tread grooves. They should run true and straight as it spins; if the groove pattern wobbles, then that's the issue and there's nothing you can do but replace those tires and make sure the alignment's good for the next set.

But you'd think one of these tire balance or alignment shops would've already noticed and told you about something like this. One of those shops should be able to diagnose your car and tell you exactly what's wrong, it seems kinda sad that none of them have done so yet.

Maybe look around locally for recommendations (outside of just the Z community) on a good shop that does both tire balancing and alignment (It can be frustratingly common that many shops only do one or the other (just tires, or just alignment)), and take it to that shop and have them diagnose. Don't go in and tell them "I think X part is bad, can you check that" - have them own the whole problem. Tell them you have a vibration and you want them to figure out what the cause is, whatever it is. They should be able to do it.

Well, yesterday I left my Z at home in the garage and took in my spare (2000 Jetta) to work. I came home and lifted the front end on jackstands again to inspect the tires and wheel. I inspected all the joints, boots, suspension parts and driveshaft u-joints for any play, leaks or tears and found nothing. My suspension guy didn't even bother since he's done an alignment and noticed nothing out of the ordinary in a test drive. He thinks it's either bent wheel(s) or bad/worn tires - especially since I swapped the spacers from a different brand and the vibration still persists.

I did a quick setup with a paint can and the tip of a screw driver to visually check radial and lateral runout of both wheel and tire. I know it's not accurate, but if I could visually detect any difference, then I'm sure a professional measurement would indicate a fault in either wheel or tire.

I spun both tires by hand, one at a time, and noticed the tires were visually off by a millimeter or so, but even several millimeters in radial. It was in both tires, so I think it's just a result of flatspotting from being parked overnight. I would think the Hunter Roadforce machine would flag that down if it were a permanent runout, no?

The outer edge of each wheel were ok. Maybe a hair under a millimeter when I spun them. Would that indicate a bent wheel(s)? I know there is a tolerance of .01 inch by manufacturers, but I guess it would have to be professionally measured to make sure. I thought the Hunter balancer would also detect that though.

I'm debating on getting the wheels inspected and measured for runout by a wheel repair shop before ordering an entire set of new tires. :ugh2:

One other thing I forgot to mention. The rear whees/tires have never been Roadforce balanced. I know the Z has a pretty stiff chassis from the factory, but do you think any tire or wheel imperfection in either or both of the rear wheels would be able to transfer the vibration to the front of the car through the steering wheel? I do have the same feeling/vibration through the floorboard (not so much in the seats) and deadpedal, so maybe I should get the rear wheels and tires looked at? Anyway, that's what my suspension guy recommended too - to get the rear wheels/tires Roadforce balanced.

I'm pretty ambivalent about the Roadforce thing to be honest. Usually if nothing's wrong with the car even a static balance is good enough. It can't hurt, but I'm not gonna go out of my way to find such a machine. But yes, those machines are supposed to detect all sorts of problems with the tire itself. I'm not 100% confident they would see a lateral wear-pattern problem from toe issues, though. The best way to see that is to spin the wheel on a balance machine and actually stare at the tread groove visually and see if it wobbles back and forth or looks straight.

If you want to test out another set of OEM wheels/tires or OEM wheels/track tires you are welcome to mine. I still have the OEM tires from 2009 :wtf2: