jordo, just did 3 pulls at proven power the other day. I have top speed exhaust and custom short rams and peaked at 275whp and 229 torque. Better than what I expexted, especially for an exhaust that uses the stock y-pipe (getting that changed out soon) and heat soaked short rams.

Anyways, im with you. Full bolt ons and we are talking maybe 290-305/310 whp NA. Our cars dont like to dyno very high. After the Y-pipe im prob done with mods for speed

Hey man, YGPM.

You may want to ditch the short rams -- I have no idea exactly why, but they don't seem to perfom as well as the OEM airboxes with a high flow panel filter.

Also, yes, I suspect that the greatest gains in an exhaust come from swapping out the OEM Y-pipe (still not clear on whether improved Y, H or X yeilds better gains).

I would see about a HFC or test pipes too -- I will have a set of TP's for sale very soon if you are interested.

Nissan 370Z Z34 G37 VQ37 08-10 Exhaust Y-Pipe, Y Pipe - eBay (item 230498398242 end time Dec-09-10 12:15:10 PST)

since i already have the exhaust, you think this should work ok.

and you really think i should go back to stock air boxes?

The Y-pipe will probably net you another 3-5 on the average throughout the rev range -- I'd say 6-8 max. Price seems reasonable.

As to the SRI's, unless you did a baseline with them off to confirm they made power over OEM, yeah I do. I think you'll make more power with the stock airboxes plus K&N high flow panel filters.

If it wouldn't be a huge PITA to test, I would at least try it out.

Also, next time you go, you might want to do a second set of runs -- the ECU takes a full pulls to adjust itself, and I always see the gains "magically" appear on the second set of runs.

they charge 30 for 3 runs. do you know what they charge for the hour. and would you be interested in meeting up and maybe splitting the hour

Not sure what they charge for the hour -- call them and ask?

I won't be on the dyno for a while -- kind of run out of things to do until I get into tuning.

I will have to locate my chart from Proven Power as well. I did a baseline and another with the JWT pop chargers. However, in my next run I will have GTM resonated Test Pipes and the Agencey Power CBE. The only thing I am not sure about is whether I will need a Y pipe or not...... I have a message to the vendor I purchased the CBE from on Black Friday asking whether this is the case.

:driving:

Did you pick up anything from the pop chargers?

I did think of one (highly unlikely) possiblity of why my intake experiments didn't work: I suppose I might have been outflowing the MAF sensors. If the MAF hits (or even approaches) 5 volts, the ECU will go to 100% duty cycle and that will quench power in a hurry.

One piece of evidence supporting this hypothesis would be if aftermarket intakes tend to ues a wider than stock diameter tube.

The wider diameter will slow down airflow, giving the MAF a lower reading. This would also keep the sensors from hitting 5 volts if it would have done so using the OEM diameter.

Anyone know the inside diameter of their aftermarket intake?

Actually, Jordo I need to call Proven Power to give you permission. You will see my initial bone stock runs vs. the pop chargers. I actually made gains - between 3 to peak of 7 HP through out the curve. Note, however this was my first of any engine mods. Also, note that I did not have any heat soak period .. so in actuality my gains make sense.

Do you know off hand if my JWT Pop Chargers have a wider circumference compared to the stock tube?

No clue. OEM inside diameter is about 57 mm or ~2.25 inches

I just spoke to a good friend of mine who tunes Z's and he said (1) The OEM MAF sensors are good to about 600 whp and (2) apparently these sensors are versy sensitive to airflow tumble effects. Thus changing the shape or orientation of anything in front of the MAF sensors will cause misreads, resulting in running either overly rich or lean :icon14:

So... that is most likely the problem.

In theory with further experimentation I might find something that works, but instead I'm just going to be happy with my current set up as is (for reasons I expand on below...). Glad I experimented, but not interested in continuing the project.

If someone else wants to play around with it, I have the OEM intake MAFS tubes for sale -- perfect for a custom intake project http://www.the370z.com/parts-sale-pr...afs-tubes.html

The gain of 3 - 7 whp from the pop chargers is on par with the panel filters, and based on the dynos I've seen of other folks, on par with every other intake (double digit claims never seem to pan out unless it is the only modification for whatever reason).

You'd think more could be achieved, but I guess a combination of underhood heat and orientation problems make improving significantly on the factory airboxes more challenging than one might expect.

Yeah, man, if you could ask Darrell to share them with me, that'd be much appreciated. I like data :tup:

So does this mean the HPS tubes aren't worth it either? Best thing to do is just get some drop in K&Ns. I noticed a difference from just putting in the drop ins especially up top. Seems to breathe better at the higher rpm range as to before it seemed it bottomed out went flat.

At this point, I'd say not really. Honestly, I may eventually just sell mine off.

I found at best a 2-3 whp (i.e., ~1%) gain at peak with evidence of a 2-3 whp loss at other points and no change throughout most of the rev range. Never mind the possiblity that such a small change could be due to measurement error...

That's a dubious endorsement at best... :ughdance:

I'd say, the HPS tubes couldn't hurt, but they won't be much of a help over the K&N drop in's alone either.

On a budget, the K&N panel filters by themselves are definitely the way to go.

Finally tuned! :tup:

Mods = HPS tubes [somewhat worthwhile], K&N panel filters [worthwhile, considering how inexpensive and easy to install!], ebay test pipes [best bang for the buck!], S-tune cat back [small gains, but lovely sound], and of course a good tune [very worthwhile -- great gains!].

SAE corrected numbers. Uncorrected, this was 305.

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...-plus-tune.jpg



The somewhat overly optimistic STD correction (my new "bragging rights" dyno :icon17: )

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...ights-dyno.jpg



A comparison of where I was before tuning (i.e., with all other mods) and now.

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...thout-tune.jpg



The detailed camparo shows pretty substantial gains in torque down low (as much as 10 lb-ft!) with generally good gains overall throughout the entire rev range (5-9 whp).

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...ed-comparo.jpg


And last but not least, a comparison of where I was bone stock vs. now :D

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...ods-w-tune.jpg

Oh, summary of gains from all mods, based on SAE corrected whp/wtq at 5252 RPM, when hp and tq are equal...

Bone stock = 219

+K&N panel filters = 222 (+1.5%)

+Test pipes = 232 (+4.5%)

+S-tune catback = 235 (+1.5%)

+HPS intake tubes = 238 (+1.5%)

+Tune = 244 (+2.5%)

Cumulative gain @5252 RPM from Bone stock = 25 (+11.5%)


Again, this is just a summary of changes at 5252 RPM's, when hp and tq are equal. Although gains will vary in hp and tq throughout the rev range, this should be a good indicator of overall gains.

Individual results may vary... :icon17:

Note: I'm surprised to see some evidence of gains for the HPS tubes looking at the data this way... I'll upgrade my review to "somewhat worth it".

Great Job Jordo!! I apologize, as I completely forgot to call them to grant you permission to my run files. However, now that I've got my own test pipes and exhaust, I may as well do another run. Maybe this weekend even? .. We shall see.

Cool -- thanks, man!

Past runs from when the Z was stock would be great too!

The data is really helpful to get a clearer sense of what the Z puts down, loses through the trans, gains from different mods, etc., which is something we all want to know ;)

Sure thing Jordo .. I will grab all of my files today .. going for another 3 pulls .. I haven't had a chance to get the dyno since I installed the TP's and Exhaust.

At the risk of sounding like I'm just trying to raise PP's profits, I would consider springing for 6 runs.

I find that it takes a few runs to get the ECU to readjust fuel trims and such in order to see the gains of bolt on's.

Probably has to do with the ECU needing to see a certain range of load in a given gear to actually make adjustments.

Just saw this thread. Very good, thanks for posting and taking the time to do this. You may want to post in the engine section. I think it would be useful for others to see.

New dynos and some new conclusions!

I want to somewhat amend my earlier position on the G3's. Comparing mine to another 7AT with similar mods, the G3's car definitely made more power at peak (same day, same dynojet) -- much more than I would have expected!

Average gains over sucessive runs were closer, but there is no denying the power difference is there.

Now to be fair, this is not a PERFECT comparion. Some of the diferences could be due to other factors -- the Berk CBE outperforming my Nismo Weldina, for example -- but the peak differences are almost certainly due to the G3's outperforming the panel filters and tubes.

I think if you can find the G3's for $350 or less, it's definitely worth it over the smooth tubes and filters (if I can find a good bargin on one, I too may switch -- then we'll have very conclusive back to back evidence of the difference on the same car, same mods for all else! Anyone wanna chip in? :p )

On a budget, I stand by my earlier conclusion that the filters and tubes will do a good job, and are worth the money, especially given the incredible ease of installation.

However, the G3's definitely deserve way more credit than I had previously given them -- dynos below.

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...rk-hfc-cbe.jpg

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...ed-comparo.jpg

One more set of charts that is very informative -- oberve the effects of heat, humidity, and air pressure on dyno numbers. SAE corrected and uncorrected below.

All of these runs are same car, same mods, same tune, same dyno, but different times of year -- highest values were obtained in January, next highest and closest was from yesterday (end of October), and lowest was in the dead of summer!

This is Florida... imagine the differences in power over the year in places where they actually have seasons :p

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...essure-sae.jpg

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...sure-uncor.jpg

Oh, and BTW, as you can see, even using a correction factor, you get very different numbers depending on ambient conditions.... something good to keep in mind.

Sweet!

hey i live in orlando, fl and was wondering if anyone could install my stillen gen 3 intake and fi long tube headers. please get back at me as soon as possible. thank u

I can put you in touch with a guy in Tampa who is really good and will do the work for a good price, but you might want to find a shop in Orlando to make life easier...

Shoot me a PM if interested.

Excellent data set Jordo!

Thanks! :tup:

Addind to this old thread
-Engine Mods:
Art Pipes
F.I CBE 18" Resonators
Stillen G3's
NST Pulleys
Z1 25R Oil Cooler

Full Bolt ons untuned Vs Uprev Tuned
Weather conditions outside 83F 77% humidity
STD
http://i49.tinypic.com/312wnsp.jpg


SAE Corrected Numbers
http://i50.tinypic.com/34pzzm8.jpg

While we're here, a quick example of four bone stock Z's making 4th gear pulls. Two are 7AT, 2 are 6MT. Variance when torque and horsepower are equal is about 3-5, and peak values on all four are around 275/225, give or take a few by that margin.

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...gear-pulls.jpg

That variance of a few whp/wtq is probably due as much to ambient conditions (note the heat and/or humidity as well as air pressure) as anything, but other transient factors are probably at play too (e.g., wheelspin, break-in success, general measurement error).

Also note that some of the SAE correction factor (CF) values are pretty high -- as a rule of thumb, any CF > 1.02 is probably overcorrecting by a bit.

However, also note that STD CF's tend to be HIGHER than SAE, meaning they tend to be REALLY optimistic (I sometimes call them the "bragging rights" CF -- legitimate, but skews high rather than low). I personally prefer conservative over ego-sparing estimates. Think of SAE values as "sleeper" numbers -- your car is probably a bit more powerful than this number on the road; with STD, it's probably a bit less so in real life.

But that's for NA cars. For FI, the higher STD value is probably more accurate, because no CF takes into account the extra heat of compressed air, meaning SAE tends to greatly undercorrect by comparison.

Finally got my uprev done at S&R performance....
 

you'll have to accept these #s until I can figure out how to post the printout they gave me.
Max HP was 313.3@ 7025rpm
torque @ 7025 shows 234.2 BUT from 3000rpm to 5000rpm torque shows 260 almost dead flat and tapers to 250 at 6700, dropping obviously to 234 at redline.
printout reads DYNOmite not dynojet or mustang.

It will be hard to compare those readings to dynojet readings...

Do you have a baseline from when you were stock? That will make it easier to compare and contrast, because we can estimate the % gain from baseline.

Also, what mods?

.
 

unfortunately no baseline dyno. I have an unusual work schedule and have been trying to get the uprev for 2 months now.
Mods are stillen G3 and F.I. TDX 18" resonated w/ test pipes.
There were numerous Zs and Gs in the shop (including a brand new Nismo from North Dakota getting a top mount single turbo installed) I don't know if any of them have posted here.

Compared to stock, K&N Drop-ins + PostMafTubes = about what HP gained (on avarage throughout the rev range) ??

tnx

A gain of about 3-4% whp/wtq throughout the rev range from baseline. I'd say another 1-2% for the G3's.

Another nice comparison graph -- this one shows the changes in measured torque in three different gears.

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...es-3-gears.jpg

Note that from 3rd to 4th is about 4% change, and from 4th to 5th about a 2% change in peak torque.

Something to keep in mind when comparing one dyno to the next or when comparing your own runs.

So before swearing by a mod, or swearing off a mod, remember to consider similarity in ambient temps and air pressure (even with correction, as we see above, you get massive differences) and also what gear each run was done in :tiphat:

Well, back to Proven Power to dyno the new Zed :tup:

The weather was perfecto (SAE CF was 1.0) -- so conditions were ideal for a "true" set of measurements (by comparison, my old Z's baselines were taken at temps over 100* F, and all measured values were a good bit lower across the board, even with a more generous CF that attempted to account for the hotter temps).


Below are the best runs, all taken in 4th gear with oil temps between 180* - 195* F. Other runs hovered within 2-4 whp of the highest runs, but I can post them as well if folks wish to compare and contrast in obsessive detail.



First, bone stock vs. Cobb smooth tubes and humble K&N panel filters. Excellent gains for such an inespensive and easy to install mod.


http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...-k-n-panel.jpg



Behold the detailed comparison to see where big vs. small gains were picked up throughout the rev range. No tuning as yet. Just the tubes and filters.

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...ed-comparo.jpg



Last, my "bragging rights" dyno, so called because it uses STD correction, which invariably overestimates gains on NA cars (it is more appropriate for FI cars given that no CF takes changes in air temperature due to compression into account...).

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...ights-dyno.jpg


Qualitatively, I'm a pretty liberal guy by nature, but when it comes to quantitative measurement, I lean conservative -- thus, I prefer SAE estimates (a bit stingy) for NA cars over STD (a bit overly generous), but here they are anyway as legitimate (if overly optimistic) numbers for consideration.


Headers, CBE, and tune coming soon :tiphat:

Martin tuned it?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

At the moment, that is without any tuning.

Cooler weather is definitely helping out here, although I consider the more conservative SAE values more representative of what the car is actually putting down. STD values tend to be high for NA cars.

Also, those are the best runs. Successive runs were about 2-4 whp less as oil temps skewed closer to 200+* F.

If we want to be really (conservatively) fair, I'd say treat my reported SAE numbers as x -3 and that's what the car is consistently putting down with these mods under these conditions.

Expect those values to plummet by as much as 10% or more when summer heat and humidity returns to FL tho... :(

Did you ever get the PPE's installed?

Project got put on hold until July -- still definitely happening, but not for a little while :(

EDIT: no, no, I'm full of ****. I was broke and so they spent the year taking up space on my couch as a conversation piece (the conversation being "Hey, don't sit on my ******* headers!")