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-   -   Obama's inaugural choice sparks outrage (http://www.the370z.com/politics-war/810-obamas-inaugural-choice-sparks-outrage.html)

BanningZ 12-18-2008 07:24 AM

Obama's inaugural choice sparks outrage
 
Quote:

(CNN) -- Prominent liberal groups and gay rights proponents criticized President-elect Barack Obama Wednesday for choosing evangelical pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at the presidential inauguration next month.

Warren, one of the most influential religious leaders in the nation, has championed issues such as a reduction of global poverty, human rights abuses and the AIDS epidemic.

But the founder of the Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, has also adhered to socially conservative stances -- including his opposition to gay marriage and abortion rights that puts him at odds with many in the Democratic Party, especially the party's most liberal wing.

"[It's] shrewd politics, but if anyone is under any illusion that Obama is interested in advancing gay equality, they should probably sober up now," Andrew Sullivan wrote on the Atlantic Web site Wednesday.

People for the American Way President Kathryn Kolbert told CNN she is "deeply disappointed" with the choice of Warren and said the powerful platform at the inauguration should instead have been given to someone who has "consistent mainstream American values."

"There is no substantive difference between Rick Warren and James Dobson," Kolbert said. "The only difference is tone. His tone is moderate, but his ideas are radical."

Dobson, a social conservative leader, is founder and chairman of Focus on the Family.

Linda Douglass, a spokeswoman for Obama, defended the choice of Warren, saying, "This is going to be the most inclusive, open, accessible inauguration in American history."

"The president-elect certainly disagrees with him on [lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender] issues," Douglass said. "But it has always been his goal to find common ground with people with whom you may disagree on some issues."

Douglass also noted that Obama and Warren agree on several issues, including advocating on behalf of the poor, the disadvantaged and people who suffer from HIV/AIDS. Video Watch CNN's Anderson Cooper and his panel discuss the selection »

Warren's support of California's Proposition 8, a measure that outlaws same-sex marriage in the state, sparked the ire of many gay rights proponents earlier this fall.

Warren, who has made it a practice not to endorse candidates or political parties, wrote in October that the issue of gay marriage is not a political issue, but instead "a moral issue that God has spoken clearly about."

"For 5,000 years, every culture and every religion -- not just Christianity -- has defined marriage as a contract between men and women," Warren wrote in a newsletter to his congregation. "There is no reason to change the universal, historical definition of marriage to appease 2 percent of our population."

Warren also stirred controversy earlier this week when he told Beliefnet.com his grounds for opposing same-sex marriage lay primarily on his right of free speech.

"There were all kinds of threats that if [Proposition 8] did not pass, then any pastor could be considered doing hate speech if he shared his views that he didn't think homosexuality was the most natural way for relationships, and that would be hate speech."

Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights campaign, said Wednesday he feels a "deep level of disrespect" over the choice of Warren and is calling on Obama to reconsider the move.

"By inviting Rick Warren to your inauguration, you have tarnished the view that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans have a place at your table," Solmonese said in an open letter to Obama that was released by his organization.

In his recent interview with Beliefnet, Warren also sparked outrage among supporters of abortion rights for criticizing those who have said abortion would be "safe and rare."

"Don't tell me it should be rare," he said in the interview. "That's like saying on the Holocaust, 'Well, maybe we could save 20 percent of the Jewish people in Poland and Germany and get them out and we should be satisfied with that -- I'm not satisfied with that. I want the Holocaust ended."

But Warren, whose church attracts more than 20,000 people a week, has widely been recognized for his attempts to expand the evangelical movement beyond socially conservative issues.

In the 2008 election, Warren hosted Obama and Sen. John McCain, the Republican presidential nominee, at a candidate forum held in his church.
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His book "The Purpose Driven Life" has sold more than 20 million copies since it was first published five years ago, and Time magazine named him one of the 25 most influential evangelicals in 2005.

"Many believe that Warren ... is the successor to the [Rev. Billy Graham] for the role of America's minister," Time wrote in 2005.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...mawarrengi.jpg

Seriously???

Fvcking hate things sometimes.

Rick Warren??

Couldn't we find some hidden Nazis in Brazil? They might be more friendly, and accepted.

FAIL


FYI: That weird spacing in the quote is not me, its just how it transferred over and I can't figure out how to fix it, but I did continue it with my quote, for the hell of it. FAIL x 2

drmike 12-18-2008 09:06 AM

Yawn. My emotional level in regards to this stimulus barely registers on a microgiveashitometer.

BanningZ 12-18-2008 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmike (Post 9662)
Yawn. My emotional level in regards to this stimulus barely registers on a microgiveashitometer.

Your response completely failed to create humor or creative thinking. *yawn*

drmike 12-18-2008 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BanningZ (Post 9669)
Your response completely failed to create humor or creative thinking. *yawn*

Indeed.

shumby 12-18-2008 05:31 PM

http://a0.vox.com/6a00c2251f58b7549d...63100005-500pi

SnakeBitten 12-19-2008 04:46 PM

I guess tolerance only works one way:icon14:

Asheth 12-19-2008 05:06 PM

I think its something to talk about just to have something to talk about. In the end he is a Pastor a man of the bible. Which expressly goes against same-sex marriage and so forth.

But that goes into another story anyway

dad 12-19-2008 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheth (Post 10444)
I think its something to talk about just to have something to talk about. In the end he is a Pastor a man of the bible. Which expressly goes against same-sex marriage and so forth.

But that goes into another story anyway

Yea, it's called discrimination.

shumby 12-19-2008 05:57 PM

^^^^ no it is called having beliefes. When you force your beliefes on someone or take radical actions that is when it is wrong. I am against gay marrage but hey that is my belief. If people believe different that is ok that is what makes us individuals we don't have to agree with everyones beliefs but we should respect their right to have them.

dad 12-19-2008 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shumby (Post 10462)
^^^^ no it is called having beliefes. When you force your beliefes on someone or take radical actions that is when it is wrong. I am against gay marrage but hey that is my belief. If people believe different that is ok that is what makes us individuals we don't have to agree with everyones beliefs but we should respect their right to have them.

I'm not talking about beliefs, it's plain and simple discrimination.

drmike 12-19-2008 08:46 PM

For the record I voted against Prop 8, and I have no moral issues with gays, either. I just don't see what is the big deal, aren't they people too? Regardless, I could care less what some preacher says.

dad 12-19-2008 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmike (Post 10519)
For the record I voted against Prop 8, and I have no moral issues with gays, either. I just don't see what is the big deal, aren't they people too? Regardless, I could care less what some preacher says.

Same here! It's their business, no body else's! They don't bother me, I don't bother them! Personally I enjoy watching to lesbians having a clam fight!

Asheth 12-20-2008 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shumby (Post 10462)
^^^^ no it is called having beliefes. When you force your beliefes on someone or take radical actions that is when it is wrong. I am against gay marrage but hey that is my belief. If people believe different that is ok that is what makes us individuals we don't have to agree with everyones beliefs but we should respect their right to have them.

Exactly its not discrimination at all. If you have someone that believes in the bible for its word. Especially as a Pastor then he has that right and his life calling for serving the lord and following the bibles shapes his beliefs.

If he was a Pastor and was for gay marriages then I would actually think it was fishy and have a problem with it because then he is letting someone else shape his beliefs and not the bible and the lords word which is who he has put his life to serve. If not then he would be corrupt in my eyes because a Democratic President-Elect wants him for his inauguration and then that means he is swayed and serving his on needs and not who he has devoted his life too God.

For the record I have no problem with them at all they dont affect my life so I hold no grudge against them. Its not my choice its theres so I dont care either way what they do.

SnakeBitten 12-20-2008 08:10 AM

Bottomline is folks Religion and Politics dont mix. Religion is about Gods right to rule. Politics is about Mans right to rule. They dont and shouldnt be mixed. They always mix when there is money or power up for grabs. That simple fact, that you can see down through history, is reason enough to suspect institutionalized religion as a whole imho.

I have a problem with a Pastor of any Christian church swearing in a Political figure. Why would God bless his creation thats trying to userp His right to rule mankind? To me thats the bigger issue than the protection of the right for a minority of people to play hide the banana. Religion is just as corrupt as Politics as you have seen some churches "modify Gods laws" to allow homosexuals, pedophiles, fornicators, adulterers etc to be part of and lead the church. More "inclusive" means more mass appeal which in turn means more money. Its all about filling up those seats to maximize collections. Even got some churches with gambling machines in the lobby LMAO.

Its no wonder that as a whole lots of people are not siding with the "moral" aspect of homosexuality because they see the hypocracy of it all. Where were morals when the church protected the pedophiles, fornicators etc?? Morality should be applied to everyone not just Gays. We all fall down under the moral microscope. As a headcrack consider that God mentioned fornication, adultery and homosexuality in the same breath to describe things he hates:eek: Take that for what its worth.

That being said Im against gay marriage as I am a believer in God. And as such I believe that Christians have a right to be againsts whatever God is against. Just as much as the Gays want to protect there right under mans law, the Constitution, religious folks need to have there rights respected and defended against the Gay agenda. When you speak like this you get labeled with anti-gay etc slurs, you get demonized into some Hitler-esque type of person. I assure you I have no ounce of hate for any human being gay or straight. I do however "hate" the act. But who the hell am I? We all have our vices and God is the ultimate judge.

I may now be the [Olberman] WORST PERSON............IN THE WOOOORLD[/Olberman] after saying this:ughdance:

BanningZ 12-20-2008 08:36 PM

First off I'm bothered that we have an Inaugural Prayer. wtf? Seems weird that its not being questioned, that we are mixing church and state as the first act of a new administration.

Secondly. There were a lot of people during the civil rights movement of the 1950's, 60s, and early 70's that claimed it was their personal belief that Blacks were not equal to whites, or that blacks should not be integrated into public schools, and other public institutions. They said it wasn't discrimination, it was just their personal belief, but today we call those people bigots. This is not by any means an attack on anyone here and their beliefs but remember that as time moves on, people reflect of their past beliefs and reconsider them.
Gays and Lesbians are people that deserve every right that any straight people deserve.
Gays and Lesbians overwhelmingly voted for Obama, and to have a person like Warren, with such discriminatory beliefs make Obama's inaugural prayer is pretty insulting to the very people that helped get him elected.

just my two cents.

Edit: SnakeBitten, no you are not the Worst person in th woooorrrllldd! LOL. I think you made some very valid points. I actually would not have included my first part about inagural prayer if I had seen your post first. Opinions are like a55holes, we all have...etc. Good post. :tup:

nogoodname 12-20-2008 10:24 PM

Inaugural Prayer????????????? what the...........

shumby 12-20-2008 10:38 PM

they got in god we trust on ther money why not have a prayer

BanningZ 12-20-2008 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shumby (Post 10854)
they got in god we trust on ther money why not have a prayer

In God we trust was first put on money in 1957. Time for a change?

In God We Trust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

The motto In God We Trust was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the American Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout Christians throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize God on United States coins.
The same thing with the pledge of allegiance.

Quote:

The pledge was written in 1892 by the socialist Francis Bellamy, a cousin of the famous radical writer Edward Bellamy. He devised it for the popular magazine Youth's Companion on the occasion of the nation's first celebration of Columbus Day. Its wording omitted reference not only to God but also, interestingly, to the United States:

"I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Quote:

The efforts to bring God into the state reached their peak during the so-called "religious revival" of the 1950s. It was a time when Norman Vincent Peale grafted religion onto the era's feel-good consumerism in his best-selling The Power of Positive Thinking; when Billy Graham rose to fame as a Red-baiter who warned that Americans would perish in a nuclear holocaust unless they embraced Jesus Christ; when Secretary of State John Foster Dulles believed that the United States should oppose communism not because the Soviet Union was a totalitarian regime but because its leaders were atheists.

shumby 12-20-2008 11:30 PM

blaaaaa lolz

SnakeBitten 12-21-2008 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BanningZ (Post 10772)
First off I'm bothered that we have an Inaugural Prayer. wtf? Seems weird that its not being questioned, that we are mixing church and state as the first act of a new administration.

Secondly. There were a lot of people during the civil rights movement of the 1950's, 60s, and early 70's that claimed it was their personal belief that Blacks were not equal to whites, or that blacks should not be integrated into public schools, and other public institutions. They said it wasn't discrimination, it was just their personal belief, but today we call those people bigots. This is not by any means an attack on anyone here and their beliefs but remember that as time moves on, people reflect of their past beliefs and reconsider them.
Gays and Lesbians are people that deserve every right that any straight people deserve.
Gays and Lesbians overwhelmingly voted for Obama, and to have a person like Warren, with such discriminatory beliefs make Obama's inaugural prayer is pretty insulting to the very people that helped get him elected.

just my two cents.

Edit: SnakeBitten, no you are not the Worst person in th woooorrrllldd! LOL. I think you made some very valid points. I actually would not have included my first part about inagural prayer if I had seen your post first. Opinions are like a55holes, we all have...etc. Good post. :tup:

Hehe...Thanks. BTW I always have a problem with the Gay struggle being equated with the Black struggle. Totally different things. But I understand why the Gays and every other minority group hitches a ride on the Black Struggle Civil Rights bandwagon. I just hope we dont see NAMBLA or beastiality lovers on that bandwagon. Dont know if they have enough room left in that long azzed name the Gays have for there foundation:ugh2:

BanningZ 12-21-2008 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten (Post 10969)
Hehe...Thanks. BTW I always have a problem with the Gay struggle being equated with the Black struggle. Totally different things. But I understand why the Gays and every other minority group hitches a ride on the Black Struggle Civil Rights bandwagon. I just hope we dont see NAMBLA or beastiality lovers on that bandwagon. Dont know if they have enough room left in that long azzed name the Gays have for there foundation:ugh2:

ouch. Now don't go equating gays and pedophilia. Studies have shown that it is primarily striaght men that get into pedophilia because of previous Sex abuse when they were young.

I can agree that the civil rights comparison can be abused, just like the Nazi comparison (see: Godwin's law) but I truly believe in this case it is very valid. They are a respectable group of people vieing for the same rights that the rest of us have and wish to continue enjoying. Either way I like to play devils advocate, and can see both sides in this(within reason). i personally still see denying marriage to the gay community as discrimination.

SnakeBitten 12-21-2008 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BanningZ (Post 10974)
ouch. Now don't go equating gays and pedophilia. Studies have shown that it is primarily striaght men that get into pedophilia because of previous Sex abuse when they were young.

I can agree that the civil rights comparison can be abused, just like the Nazi comparison (see: Godwin's law) but I truly believe in this case it is very valid. They are a respectable group of people vieing for the same rights that the rest of us have and wish to continue enjoying. Either way I like to play devils advocate, and can see both sides in this(within reason). i personally still see denying marriage to the gay community as discrimination.

;)I was marely stating that anything that wasnt formerly the "norm" now has one blanket in the Gay and Lesbian transgender blah blah blah. That is one long name and I dont remember all of the "special" orientation groups they represent lol....All Im saying is it wont be long before other "special" orientation groups jump on the same bandwagon.

BTW I dont put much faith in studies. They are like dyno numbers. It can be made to show whatever it needs to to suit any agenda or popular social thinking. As an example NAMBLA did studies too with real psychologist etc and their results showed that the young men that were involved were well adjusted and benefited from that sort of deviant relationship.:rolleyes: See where Im coming from? I remember in the 90's when this Gay agenda really took off some scientists sympathetic to gays were finding gay fish, dogs etc:rolleyes: I think they are still looking for a gay gene in humans.

As a headcrack Marriage was institued by God. Homosexuality is directly opposed to Gods laws. So why should they be allowed to openly violate religious laws for there desires? Thats thumbing your nose at God and telling him to his face you know what. I guess God has no say in the matter lol. We really have become a Godless society. Ah well it was foretold. This is exactly why there should be a separation of church and state.

Anyway the reality is that it will happen. They will get Marriage. Its in keeping with the times we are living in that is if you belive in the good book.

BanningZ 12-21-2008 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten (Post 10994)
;)I was marely stating that anything that wasnt formerly the "norm" now has one blanket in the Gay and Lesbian transgender blah blah blah. That is one long name and I dont remember all of the "special" orientation groups they represent lol....All Im saying is it wont be long before other "special" orientation groups jump on the same bandwagon.

BTW I dont put much faith in studies. They are like dyno numbers. It can be made to show whatever it needs to to suit any agenda or popular social thinking. As an example NAMBLA did studies too with real psychologist etc and their results showed that the young men that were involved were well adjusted and benefited from that sort of deviant relationship.:rolleyes: See where Im coming from? I remember in the 90's when this Gay agenda really took off some scientists sympathetic to gays were finding gay fish, dogs etc:rolleyes: I think they are still looking for a gay gene in humans.

As a headcrack Marriage was institued by God. Homosexuality is directly opposed to Gods laws. So why should they be allowed to openly violate religious laws for there desires? Thats thumbing your nose at God and telling him to his face you know what. I guess God has no say in the matter lol. We really have become a Godless society. Ah well it was foretold. This is exactly why there should be a separation of church and state.

Anyway the reality is that it will happen. They will get Marriage. Its in keeping with the times we are living in that is if you belive in the good book.

Done. <<<<Atheist. I respect your views. This argument gets nowhere at this point. Peace.

SnakeBitten 12-21-2008 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BanningZ (Post 10998)
Done. <<<<Atheist. I respect your views. This argument gets nowhere at this point. Peace.

Cool. No worries brotha. I respect your views as well and agree we are at an impass.

BanningZ 12-21-2008 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten (Post 10999)
Cool. No worries brotha. I respect your views as well and agree we are at an impass.

:werd::D:tup:

shumby 12-21-2008 05:29 PM

i'd give you 2 guys both reps but I have given out to meny in the last 24 hrs and cannot. nice to see we can have a civil debate and all still be friends.

18rgcelica73 12-21-2008 05:41 PM

Go figure, we let a guy in that won't even let us know who he really is, then he goes off and makes stupid decisions. This is why I hate politics, nothing makes sense any longer.:shakes head:

shumby 12-21-2008 05:49 PM

^^^^ you know what does make sense? Buying a black 370Z now that makes sense.

18rgcelica73 12-21-2008 05:54 PM

^ Damn man you keep making me laugh.

jrurbin 12-21-2008 06:02 PM

How does this effect our lives?

shumby 12-21-2008 06:10 PM

^^^ it affects our lives because if he gets a blue car i will go around thinking i tried to tell him he should have gone black but he did not listen know I know he is going around feeling bad about his decision and that will make me feel sad.





a wait you talking about obama sorry. lol

18rgcelica73 12-22-2008 12:12 AM

^ Well my brother like I said earlier I can buy the black then repaint it monterey blue. Don't worry about me being sad you always make me laugh.:inoutroflpuke:

SnakeBitten 12-22-2008 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shumby (Post 11111)
i'd give you 2 guys both reps but I have given out to meny in the last 24 hrs and cannot. nice to see we can have a civil debate and all still be friends.

Today's a new day:tup:

18rgcelica73 12-23-2008 10:45 AM

Yeah what's the deal I only have 2 and I post a lot as well. Sniff, sniff, nobody loves little ol' me.


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