We could be objective and use sales numbers... but then the fanboys would argue about whether the sales and production numbers weighted against investment would constitute "accomplishment." The point is no longer moot when you claim objective numbers are subjective. So whats the point?

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emot...ng_smileys.gif

:rolleyes:

For the trollololols?

You entirely misread what I had to say. Try again:

Perhaps I should've added "for me" at the end to emphasize I was speaking for myself.

As has been repeated many times in this thread -- yes, the Altima is a good car. It is impressive. But it is not a car I would buy as it is not a segment I am interested in.

But -- even past that -- I don't see how it is innovative. That 38mpg number is nice, but is it really outside of the ballpark of what other manufacturers are giving on their brand new sedans? The Camry is 25/35, the Fusion 22/34 (with 47/47 possible in the hybrid), the Accord is 27/37, and the Optima is 25/35. This makes the Altima a class leader, but if we're realistic all of these numbers will be within +/-1 of each other in the real world. Is this innovation?

The argument that "the Z wasn't made to compete with X" is ********. Who cares? When I drove the Z I wasn't comparing it to a Porsche. I can't afford a Porsche. I was comparing it to the Camaro, Mustang, Evo, STi, 135i, 335i, Genesis Coupe, etc.

The only comparison in the real world (for me) is price. If it costs X, I'm comparing it to other cars that cost X.

Which brings me to...

You missed the point, sort of. My point wasn't that they are comparable performance wise, but that the GT-R's innovations 5 years ago aren't enough to sustain the entire company. Some people in this thread just shout "GT-R!" whenever Nissan is challenged. Yes, yes, the GT-R is awesome. It is my favorite car. I want one. I want five. But who cares? The GT-R isn't what makes Nissan who they are.

Also, yes, Ford does have its bad apples... but let's be realistic -- most are holdovers from their darker days. Likewise, the Boss was beaten -- but it was beaten by a car that was released and developed a year after it was. The 5.0 GT also stomped on the Camaro -- but it also had quite some time to do so. I mean, duh. That's how the pony wars between Chevy and Ford work.

This is purely my opinion... but you're insane. If money was no object and I wanted a car to cruise in, I'd buy a Challenger in a heartbeat. That car is gorgeous.

The new Corvette is gorgeous. The Camaro was an aesthetic darling for a while. The new Chevy line is handsome (the Impala looks pretty good, imo -- as is the Cruze).

The CTS-V sedan and wagon are incredible looking -- the CTS (and ATS) are two of my favorite modern cars purely because of their aesthetics.

There really is no winning in this discussion, though. I think a lot of people are reading my posts as if I'm some huge Ford fanboy. I've never even owned a Ford, nor has anyone in my immediate family. I just think Nissan could be doing a better job -- and I also think that a lot of people in this thread (and forum) have blinders on when it comes to Nissan.

Definitely, it's all down to opinion, as I don't really care for the older cars, which means I don't care for the retro look on the newer cars nor do I like their incorporation into the new 'Vette.

The Challenger and Charger are boats, for me (Charger has gotten smaller in recent years).

Either way, Ford is doing well putting more (and better) technology in their cars (as far as in-cabin toys and such).

I'm pissed that I paid almost $40k for a car and can't even get a USB port, yet other $27k vehicles have bluetooth, USB, heated seats (cloth), etc. :shakes head:

If the charger came with a stick, I'd work the corner for one. I loved driving the new srt8. a car that big yet drives smaller. plus that 6.4 is amazing. and i know it is truly superfluous but even the cupholders have heating and cooling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just saying ;)

Really? You never heard of IMSA NISSAN 300zx? You know Paul Newman? Steve Millen? Wins at Daytona and LeMans?

Nissan 300zx No.2 from WINDING ROAD Magazine - YouTube

Or playboy 350 Z in Grand Am? Here's some in car of 350z picking off clumsy fords in braking zones. Like stealing candy from a baby!

Tommy Constantine Playboy Racing Nissan 350Z Passing Mustang GTs - YouTube

Or Super GT 350 Z?

http://youtu.be/U1garmkxSrc


370 z not winning major titles?

24 hours of SPA, 24 hours of Dubai? Check all wins just from RJN cars.

http://www.rjnmotorsport.com/

And how about all 370z wins in Super TEC series in Japan?

Sorry but Nissan has been heavily involved in motorsports and only increasing focus.

forget motorsports! i'm buying a jet, can go much faster than any car
your car is faster than my car? well i have a jet in my backyard top that biotch

Shamu is correct. Nissan is the only company that has wins and has videos of its cars passing others.

Sorry forgot about the 300ZX, I believe that was a privateer team.

Mazda had more cars and wins than the Playboy car, you call that domination?

Winning GT4 is nice, but that is nowhere close to the big boys in GT2 or GT3. I guess in a year we will see if their new car can match the Audi or the Toyota. I would love to see them do well, that way we can get and get all the big manufactures back in the game. With Nissan and Toyota back, I would assume Honda is the next to go back in line.

pfft, thats nothing compared to the space shuttle i have parked out back, your jet can just eat my rocket exhaust :icon23: :rofl2:

ok you got me beat there :bowdown:

The point is that Ford makes Billions of dollars more than Nissan, and so they can do things Nissan only wishes they could. I don't care how you cook the numbers of production, margin, etc. End of the year profits are what they are.

That may be fast but what about aesthetics?

Whoever builds the first Peter Copter with a full ball chin body kit and facia wins!






Phone Tapatalk *nix ...

eh no need for much aesthetically, i just paint it like a giant dildo and call it a day :tup:

Well said IC. so the point isn't truly worth discussing. Its just a thread that's set up so that people can bash A. nissan and the Z or B. Ford and the stang.