Bmw claims. Manuals and Dual clutch will be phased out...
 

In a couple of years.

BMW M claims dual-clutch and manual transmissions could soon be gone

Read that article. :shakes head: Think the real reason is less warranty claims. Auto's soak up the sudden power inputs better because of torque management that gets programmed into the ECU. Plus cost savings of having only tranny, instead of multitude of tranny options. I look for other manufactures to do the samething. :mad: Driving a stick is becoming a lost skill. Read an article about a car hijacking. The idiot hijacker got caught because he couldn't drive a stick. :rofl2:

Lol. I mean some cars deserve a manual option. Especially low HP cars... What makes cars like the 86 fun is that they're manual. There's too little power in a 86 to have fun in the auto.

A manual will always be and should be available...I am just glad I got mine...
BMW is not a trust worthy source for anything hell they cant even build a reliable engine for ther star M4 and M3...their S65 engine had bearing clearance problems causing engine failure and now their new S55 has engine crank hub issues.... so who cares what they say.
BimmerBoost - BMW ignores the F80 M3 & F84 S55 engine crank hub issue and is it the worst BMW M3 production engine defect of all time?

Don't forget the Mazda MX-5, I think Mazda will be the only automaker and Toyota if they continue the 86 to make manual transmissions:shakes head:

I bought this t shirt that says "Real cars don't shift by themselves" just for fun. It's now a conversation piece anywhere I go. The reality is even though many of us have fun with it, its just not efficient.

How many teenagers now know how to drive a stick? Not many. And these are your future car buyers. :eek: If they can't drive it. They won't buy it. Car makers will only build what sells. Look at the suv's. Car makers build them because that is what is selling, and they make a lot of profit off of each one. How different models of suv's each maker has. :eek:

I didn't. That's why I said cars "like" :tiphat: you maybe right though?

Great shirt, where did you get?

In reality it's an antiquated piece of technology.

You can talk all you want about how great the feel is when driving, but you're essentially the same as people listening to records instead of digital music. A niche.

Cars are only going to get more digital and pass off driving onto their CPUs instead of their humans. Humans will sit in moving living rooms on their phones or laptops.

Bmw claims. Manuals and Dual clutch will be phased out...
 

The best Ferrari and probably the most visceral sports car ever made is the F40 and it only came one way, manual. I don't think it would've worked any other way. It may be antiquated but nothing can match the feel of shifting your own gears. It's a shame that the younger generation will never experience it. In the meantime, check out this vid. Enjoy

https://youtu.be/7mZdkfEeJH4


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Not sure if serious. Will face palms be digital and performed by robot CPUs in this hell you speak of lol?

Got my 6 speed version from viralstyle. Teespring sells 'em for slightly more. Here's a pic but for their 4 spd.

https://teespring.com/shop/motherday...5845&sid=front

Cough, cough. Add the Civic & Fit to that list! ;-)

For performance and efficiency, CVT is the only way to go in the mid to long term. At least until the coming electric singularity. Just not the jerky, noisy, somewhat fragile CVT we use today. But when you think about it, this type of transmission can be set to ALWAYS be in the peak of the efficiency envelope, or ALWAYS stay at the top of the power /torque band. No interruption in putting twist to the tires. But it'll still be a hard sell to a potential Ferrari owner! :icon18:

Once we're all 'lectric, this conversation will be moot. India said they want to be that way by 2030 (and everyone knows that if any country can accomplish that feat, India ain't it). Expect them to have agreed upon a national battery charger standard by 2070, and have the plans in place for the infrastructure by 3030. Which is about when the Indian mean income might actually be able to afford an electric car. Yet I just heard an entire, serious media report believing the goal. People are stupid!

As stated by Maurizio Reggiani, Director of Research and Development at Lamborghini--Its about power and control. Your leg wont do it and you cant control or use the power efficiently--

Lamborghinis are supposed to be about raw emotion: the scream of a V12 engine, the thrill of mile-wide tires scrambling for grip, the joy of driving something built without a single care thrown toward convenience, practicality, or the rigors of everyday humdrum life.

Lamborghini R&D Chief Says Stick Shifts Are Dead

You'd think a manual transmission would fit the formula perfectly.

But at the Frankfurt Auto Show last week, R&T sat down with Maurizio Reggiani, Director of Research and Development at Lamborghini. And while the Lamborghini news at the show was the introduction of the Huracán LP 610-4 Spyder, we couldn't help asking Mr. Reggiani a question that's been weighing on our minds: Is the dream of a manual-transmission Lamborghini dead?

"Unfortunately I must say yes," he told us. "All the systems that are integrated in the car need to have a dialog with one another. The clutch is one of the fuses of the system, whether you're engaging or disengaging the torque. This creates a hole in the communication between what the engine is able to provide and how the car reacts to the power of the engine. For this reason, unfortunately, I must say I am sure that in a premium supersports car like the Huracán, we will only do a semiautomatic.

"Unfortunately, it's the demand of the control of the chassis," he continued. "If you want to control the chassis, you must control the power. If you want to control the power, the clutch must be under the control of the brain of the car, not your brain."

This decision wasn't easy, and Mr. Reggiani understands the yearning among traditionalists for a three-pedal Lamborghini. But he brings up a very good point about modern manual transmissions, one that doesn't get discussed very often among three-pedal evangelists: Today's manual transmissions aren't the pure, directly-connected driver's experience you think they are.

It all comes down to the mechanics of what happens when you push the clutch pedal. "Remember, when you put a servo system between your feet and the clutch, you have already put a filter in there. For me, the most pure expression of the manual transmission is when with your foot you push all the load that is necessary to disengage the clutch."

So when people pining for manual transmissions hold up today's three-pedal sports cars as standard bearers of purity, it puzzles Mr. Reggiani. "In all the latest manual transmissions, there is a servo that reduces the load [of the clutch pedal]," he explains. "If we want to talk about the purist [experience], we must go back 20 years, not 10 years, because already these filters were in place.

Then there's the practical side. "I've been working for Lamborghini for 20 years. I started at the time of the Diablo, [which had] a clutch without a servo. You needed 40 kilograms of force to disengage the clutch. At that time, we were making 450 N m of torque. Now we are at 690. It's a problem to manage the closing point of the clutch. If you have hesitation, with this torque you'll burn the clutch immediately.

"And unfortunately not everybody can be a super expert, but everybody wants to buy the car and nobody wants to appear stupid. For this, you must put the servo in there, and if you put the servo in there you disengage the really mechanical feeling between you and the engine."

In other words, if you want a Lamborghini with power like the 740-hp Aventador LP750-4 SV, you're gonna have to settle for a transmission that's smarter than you. As for Mr. Reggiani? When he wants to get that purist mechanical feel, he hops in his 1966 Alfa Romeo Duetto, with a manual transmission and no servos in sight.

Excellent article. Makes sense that cars like these produce clutch-shredding torque that needs to be managed by something wiser than your left foot. And I never thought about the servo. But recall reviews of the Testarossa and Countach that described how much force had to be applied to work the clutch. I know someone with a Diablo, and he had a knee replacement (anyone wealthy enough to own a classic Lambo is likely to be old enough to qualify, LOL). He had to quit the car for quite a while (not a big issue for him, he also has an Aventador!).

Thanks for posting that.

That's really a great article. There are days that I prefer an auto especially in ATL traffic during rush hour, but most of the time I prefer manual. I'm glad that Ecutek was able to manipulate the mapping of the transmission for the R35 so I'm hoping they can bring that to the 370 platform. We all know that autos during daily driving either shifts too quickly into 6th/7th gear or too slow when you need to make a pass.

On the other hand, I'm glad Porsche brought back the manual transmissions in most of their new models so it's not completely dead. The way I see it is, that it's easier on the driver and mechanical components of a DCT. You don't have to worry about rev-matching perfectly coming into a corner and you have no chance of over-revving the engine during a downshift (per say going from 5th-4th instead of 5th-2nd).

At the end of the day, I still prefer a manual. Most of us here can agree that it's become more than second nature.

I had a good friend with a Pantera. That machine was a severe workout on the left leg. Fun but work. My M2 has DCT. Its quite fun and offers all the beauty of a manual in manual mode with lightning shifts and power application. I am normally a manual driver. DCT is a nice way to drive. Will I own a manual again? Sure depending on the platform.

I want a sequential gearbox in my Z. :driving:

The most visceral car now is the 4c. It has a dual clutch. Lol.

Amen! A Quaife sequential at that. :driving:

:iagree::yum:

:koolaidwall:

Lotus Exige v6 cup - manual

I don't think we get that car here though.

Correct! Nor can we get an Elise. Lotus says these models will be coming back to NA eventually but based on Lotus' financial/ ownership situation, I doubt it.


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Based on the fact that Lotus has been bought by Geely, I'm thinking there is a good chance they will finally find their way back. The question will be, will they remain a true Lotus. Looking at the Volvo precident, there's hope. :tiphat:

How long have you owned your M2 and would you recommend it?

Love the 4c, but isn't the gear box straight from the dodge dart?

4 months. Highly recommend the car to others. Fun, balanced, superb exhaust note, M4 brakes =excellent. M4 suspension etc. Its an M4 minus the engine placed in a 2 series modified body. Go drive it. You wont give it back. Power is more than enough to keep you happy and the interior is nice and with great viz. Back seat and trunk give you an element of practicality and did I mention the superb exhaust note - stock.

Its put the fun back in BMW M driving and in a superb proportional package.

A review worth watching - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP5z2cJ5aqk

Well, that's a bit of artistic license. It is true that the same DCT was available on one model Dart. The engine is a sleeved version of the same powerplant as the Giulietta QV. The heater controls are from a Fiat Punto. The list goes on. It just seems that there's a fair bit of symbiosis going on here, as none of the above are a patch on the 4C. And the larger volume / alternate applications of these parts means that a replacement isn't going to cost Ferrari (or even Mercedes) money.

At the end of the day, it's how the transmission has been reinforced and tuned. Not how many or the type models just so happen to have it.

The Genesis coupe has a Maserati ZF n no one gives a shyt. All they see is Hyundai. Feel me?

Don't know if the tranny has been changed, but yes tuned for the application.
And a car is a lot more than just one part. If the Dart had been on the diet that Alfa gave the 4C, and also had its engine/turbo/ECU, mid-engine layout, brakes, suspension, dimensions, ride height, seating position, steering rack, and lack of cup holders, navi system or rear seats, then it would be an equally raw, sports-driving experience. I'd buy one in a heartbeat (for Dart money, LOL).

That's why, to me, the loss of the traditional 3-pedal manual is not that big a deal. Sure, it means something to be able to do a series of perfect shifts. But, if car makers can give you something else in exchange to augment the experience, then maybe it's time for that. One last hurrah, before we're all sentenced to self-driving monotony cells.

The 4c is the MR2 of our generation.... except on steroids