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-   -   Fumes entering cab (sometimes) (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-warranty-scheduled-maintenance-servicing-repairs/99788-fumes-entering-cab-sometimes.html)

ktmmike 01-11-2015 02:43 PM

Fumes entering cab (sometimes)
 

2014 Sport Package 370Z Coupe

Sometimes after driving for a while with the heater on, I can smell some sort of fumes in the cab.
NOT exhaust fumes.
Smells more like oil breather fumes possibly??? Not completely sure.

Intermittent. Some days I can smell it on a short drive (or not).
Other days I can take a long trip and not smell it AT ALL.

Never smelled it in the summertime with or without A/C.
Seems to happen only when heater is on (and even then, only sometimes).

When I smell it in the cab, I can stop, lift the hood, and smell NOTHING anywhere under the hood.

No exhaust leaks.
Checked entire engine for any kind of oil seepage onto hot engine surfaces.
None. Perfectly clean.

QUESTIONS:
1. Has anyone experienced this?
2. Is there an existing thread on this problem?



Thanx for any help,
Mike




*









SouthArk370Z 01-11-2015 02:47 PM

Sounds like there is something in the heaters ducts or you have a leak in the heater core. Does it make any difference if you switch from recirc to outside air mode?

ktmmike 01-11-2015 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 3078541)
Sounds like there is something in the heaters ducts or you have a leak in the heater core. Does it make any difference if you switch from recirc to outside air mode?

Thanx SouthArk,
I will check both air modes tomorrow and see if there is a difference.
Please stay tuned.



*

Zipper 104 01-11-2015 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 3078541)
Sounds like there is something in the heaters ducts or you have a leak in the heater core. Does it make any difference if you switch from recirc to outside air mode?

If the heater core has a leak you ought to see coolant on the inside of the windshield on the 'defrost' setting.

104

SouthArk370Z 01-11-2015 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zipper 104 (Post 3078703)
If the heater core has a leak you ought to see coolant on the inside of the windshield on the 'defrost' setting.

Good point.

Maybe "seep" would have been a better word to use. Just enough to cause a smell but not enough to start fogging things up.

SouthArk370Z 01-11-2015 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmmike (Post 3078566)
Thanx SouthArk,
I will check both air modes tomorrow and see if there is a difference.
Please stay tuned.

Have you changed the cabin air filter lately? In heat mode, the system defaults to pulling air from outside, through the filter. In A/C mode, it recircs cabin air and doesn't go through the filter. Both modes are probably a blend but the majority will come from one source or the other.

Edit: It might help to look through the section on HVAC in the FSM.

glw 01-12-2015 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmmike (Post 3078535)

2014 Sport Package 370Z Coupe

Sometimes after driving for a while with the heater on, I can smell some sort of fumes in the cab.
NOT exhaust fumes.
Smells more like oil breather fumes possibly??? Not completely sure.

Intermittent. Some days I can smell it on a short drive (or not).
Other days I can take a long trip and not smell it AT ALL.

Never smelled it in the summertime with or without A/C.
Seems to happen only when heater is on (and even then, only sometimes).

When I smell it in the cab, I can stop, lift the hood, and smell NOTHING anywhere under the hood.

No exhaust leaks.
Checked entire engine for any kind of oil seepage onto hot engine surfaces.
None. Perfectly clean.

QUESTIONS:
1. Has anyone experienced this?
2. Is there an existing thread on this problem?



Thanx for any help,
Mike




*









does it smell like burnt oil? after hard acceleration?

ktmmike 01-12-2015 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zipper 104 (Post 3078703)
If the heater core has a leak you ought to see coolant on the inside of the windshield on the 'defrost' setting.

104


Inside of windshield absolutely clean, no coolant on it.

ktmmike 01-12-2015 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 3078720)
Good point.

Maybe "seep" would have been a better word to use. Just enough to cause a smell but not enough to start fogging things up.


I don't think this smells like coolant, Southark.

I know I can smell it in outside air mode, but I can't get out today to see if I can smell it on recirc.

FPenvy 01-12-2015 09:41 AM

mine does this if i have the a/c-heater on in a stopped position. mine is exhaust fumes from having straight pipes. anything that isn't on the recirculate setting. if it's pulling from outside my exhaust fumes will creep in a bit. doesn't bother me though. windows are typically down anyways getting that raw burnt fuel smell lol

ktmmike 01-12-2015 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glw (Post 3078802)
does it smell like burnt oil? after hard acceleration?


Yes, glw, it could be a burnt oil smell . . .
and yes, now that you mention it, the smell seems to be at its worst:

1. after hard acceleration UP steep twisty mountain roads (which is mostly what roads we have around here). AND

2. also at its worst at relatively higher rpm in lower gears while running back down the steep twisty mountain roads.

I can cruise down the Interstate at 80 mph for hours and not smell it at all.

ktmmike 01-12-2015 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy (Post 3078994)
mine does this if i have the a/c-heater on in a stopped position. mine is exhaust fumes from having straight pipes. anything that isn't on the recirculate setting. if it's pulling from outside my exhaust fumes will creep in a bit. doesn't bother me though. windows are typically down anyways getting that raw burnt fuel smell lol


Thanx FPenvy, but this doesn't happen at a standstill at all



*

SouthArk370Z 01-12-2015 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmmike (Post 3079005)
Yes, glw, it could be a burnt oil smell . . .
and yes, now that you mention it, the smell seems to be at its worst:

1. after hard acceleration UP steep twisty mountain roads (which is mostly what roads we have around here). AND

2. also at its worst at relatively higher rpm in lower gears while running back down the steep twisty mountain roads.

I can cruise down the Interstate at 80 mph for hours and not smell it at all.

That sounds like you are overloading the cats. Mine did the same thing on hard acceleration.

ktmmike 01-12-2015 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 3079034)
That sounds like you are overloading the cats. Mine did the same thing on hard acceleration.




Overloading the cat(alitic converters)? with what? oil or oil fumes?

And how did you correct it?


Dragon_Ball_Z 01-12-2015 10:34 AM

I have a 2014 sport and experience this as well. I thought it was just normal until my girlfriend smelled it too


-Raj

Elmo370z 01-12-2015 10:37 AM

fluid change
 
I know they are threads on here about changing the fluids, I need to know the amounts of each, I haven't been able to find that.

Brake fluid: I'm going with redline.

Tranmission: Going with motul

Differential: Motul

Power steering: redline D6 ATF automatic transmission fluid????

ktmmike 01-12-2015 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajmangal7 (Post 3079065)
I have a 2014 sport and experience this as well. I thought it was just normal until my girlfriend smelled it too


-Raj

Thanx Raj,

Do you smell it ONLY when the heater is on? on outside air? recirc? both?

Do you smell it ONLY under hard acceleration?

Sometimes mine smells a little too strong to be considered normal I think.


ktmmike 01-12-2015 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z (Post 3079069)
I know they are threads on here about changing the fluids, I need to know the amounts of each, I haven't been able to find that.

Brake fluid: I'm going with redline.

Tranmission: Going with motul

Differential: Motul

Power steering: redline D6 ATF automatic transmission fluid????

This thread is about fumes, Elmo
Not sure where the fluids thread is.


SouthArk370Z 01-12-2015 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmmike (Post 3079046)
Overloading the cat(alitic converters)? with what? oil or oil fumes?

And how did you correct it?

Products of incomplete combustion. The engine is putting out more PICs than the catalytic convertors can handle.

I learned to live with it. ;) A tune might help but I doubt it would eliminate the problem. "Better" cats might help but that sounds restrictive and expensive.

Dragon_Ball_Z 01-12-2015 12:29 PM

Fumes entering cab (sometimes)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmmike (Post 3079077)
Thanx Raj,



Do you smell it ONLY when the heater is on? on outside air? recirc? both?



Do you smell it ONLY under hard acceleration?



Sometimes mine smells a little too strong to be considered normal I think.





I smell it a lot when I start the car. When I am normal driving at times and always under moderate acceleration, like I rarely bust redline, just normally to 5k. I was spirited driving the other day for about two minutes and it was pretty bad when I came to a stop. I am not sure about the ac thing. I normally leave mine off all the time, literally all the time. It is a really strong gas smell.


-Raj

ktmmike 01-12-2015 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 3079093)
Products of incomplete combustion. The engine is putting out more PICs than the catalytic convertors can handle.

I learned to live with it. ;) A tune might help but I doubt it would eliminate the problem. "Better" cats might help but that sounds restrictive and expensive.


Thanx Southark,
But that would exit the tailpipes, correct? How would that get into the heating ducts?

I do have past experience with exhaust fumes entering the cab of a different car. These are NOT exhaust fumes.
They do not smell like exhaust fumes. They don't affect your eyes or throat like exhaust fumes do.
(But they ARE annoying to have in a NEW car that surely doesn't need a tune up yet)

Hopefully I will get a chance to check it on recirc later this week.






*

ktmmike 01-12-2015 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajmangal7 (Post 3079181)
I smell it a lot when I start the car. When I am normal driving at times and always under moderate acceleration, like I rarely bust redline, just normally to 5k. I was spirited driving the other day for about two minutes and it was pretty bad when I came to a stop. I am not sure about the ac thing. I normally leave mine off all the time, literally all the time. It is a really strong gas smell.


-Raj

Thanx Raj,
Mine does NOT smell at all like GASOLINE, and never when I start the car.

I think we have two different problems. I'd be more worried about yours!

*

Dragon_Ball_Z 01-12-2015 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmmike (Post 3079192)
Thanx Raj,

Mine does NOT smell at all like GASOLINE, and never when I start the car.



I think we have two different problems. I'd be more worried about yours!



*



Are you stock?


-Raj

ktmmike 01-12-2015 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajmangal7 (Post 3079220)
Are you stock?


-Raj


Totally



*

SouthArk370Z 01-12-2015 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmmike (Post 3079185)
Thanx Southark,
But that would exit the tailpipes, correct? How would that get into the heating ducts? ...

Going by your descriptions, my money is still on the exhaust. But it's difficult to diagnose smells over the Intertubes. ;)

ktmmike 01-12-2015 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 3079290)
Going by your descriptions, my money is still on the exhaust. But it's difficult to diagnose smells over the Intertubes. ;)

Very difficult.
Thank you for your help.

glw 01-12-2015 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmmike (Post 3079005)
Yes, glw, it could be a burnt oil smell . . .
and yes, now that you mention it, the smell seems to be at its worst:

1. after hard acceleration UP steep twisty mountain roads (which is mostly what roads we have around here). AND

2. also at its worst at relatively higher rpm in lower gears while running back down the steep twisty mountain roads.

I can cruise down the Interstate at 80 mph for hours and not smell it at all.

I, too, have the burnt oil smell post hard acceleration (with recirculate on?). It seems fairly common on newer cars (non-Nissan, too).

My guess is that the EGR PCV valve is passing too much oil to the intake on hard acceleration and we're smelling the resultant burn. I was looking for a place to mount one an oil catch can to see if it helps, but there's no room in the stock engine bay.

Dragon_Ball_Z 01-12-2015 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmmike (Post 3079284)
Totally







*


I have berk hfc's and it is probably because of more airflow. Less restrictions. With stock cats I didn't have that problem really.


-Raj

SouthArk370Z 01-12-2015 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glw (Post 3079516)
... My guess is that the EGR valve is passing too much oil to the intake on hard acceleration and we're smelling the resultant burn. ...

I had always assumed it was over-fueling but EGR/oil makes sense, too. Wouldn't take much to make a big smell.

ktmmike 01-13-2015 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glw (Post 3079516)
I, too, have the burnt oil smell post hard acceleration (with recirculate on?). It seems fairly common on newer cars (non-Nissan, too).

My guess is that the EGR valve is passing too much oil to the intake on hard acceleration and we're smelling the resultant burn. I was looking for a place to mount one to see if it helps, but there's no room in the stock engine bay.

Thank you glw!
BEST THEORY so far because it would explain the right type of smell.

I don't understand your last sentence though.
If the Z comes with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve, how can there NOT be room for it? Are you referring to a larger aftermarket EGR possibly?

*

glw 01-13-2015 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmmike (Post 3079909)
Thank you glw!
BEST THEORY so far because it would explain the right type of smell.

I don't understand your last sentence though.
If the Z comes with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve, how can there NOT be room for it? Are you referring to a larger aftermarket EGR possibly?

*

Sorry, I meant to write this as my last sentence... "I was looking for a place to mount one an oil catch can to see if it helps, but there's no room in the stock engine bay."

I also misused EGR... should have used PCV.

ktmmike 01-13-2015 10:49 AM

10 - 4
Thanx

Spooler 01-13-2015 07:01 PM

Only time I get any smell is at cold start and it is only sometimes. As soon as I move out or the car warms up a little, it is gone. It's the sweet exhaust smell like all Nissan's do when they run rich at startup.

lj909 01-14-2015 01:05 AM

I think the smell you getting is the PCV fumes. I get them in my car because i have then vented. If your car is new it shouldn't be escaping. You could check you PCV tubes and intake tubes. Make sure everything is on tight and no cracks.

ktmmike 01-14-2015 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lj909 (Post 3080815)
I think the smell you getting is the PCV fumes. I get them in my car because i have then vented. If your car is new it shouldn't be escaping. You could check you PCV tubes and intake tubes. Make sure everything is on tight and no cracks.


Yeah, I checked all that first.
Thanx lj

ktmmike 01-14-2015 11:41 AM


The problem appears to be solved.

I tested the car today with heater on RECIRC.
Heavy acceleration and higher rpms up and down mountains. No fumes in cab!

BUT . . . placing this car on RECIRC is easier said than done!
I never thought I would have to RTFM just to operate a car heater, but I had to read this one because these crazy heating units have modes upon modes:eek:.

On page 4-26 under:
Automatic operation,
Cooling and/or dehumidified heating (automatic),
Year round,
Left dial: Fan on auto. A/C on (yes in the wintertime too apparently).
Right dial: Airflow to foot outlets, or dash outlets, or both (but NOT defrost, NOT foot/defrost).
Middle dial: set desired temp, THEN you can hit RECIRC (without it popping back to outside air).
Holy crap! What are the engineers thinking when they come up with all this %#@&?

Thank you all for your ideas.
Mike



*

SouthArk370Z 01-14-2015 02:08 PM

I'm glad to hear you figured it out. :tiphat:

Apparently I was wrong about the smell coming from the exhaust. Your experience leads me to believe that the EGR system is not sealed well enough from the factory and it's blowing fumes into the engine compartment.


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