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-   -   Something's up with my stock clutch (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/96975-somethings-up-my-stock-clutch.html)

JARblue 10-07-2014 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 2991991)
so i guess you sell upgraded master cylinders as well? :D

No... there is no aftermarket CMC option. WHY THE FVCK NOT?!?!? SOMEONE GET ON THAT!!! :mad:

Joe@ZSpeed 10-07-2014 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992231)
No... there is no aftermarket CMC option. WHY THE FVCK NOT?!?!? SOMEONE GET ON THAT!!! :mad:

Wait patiently ;)

JARblue 10-07-2014 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdkwang (Post 2992194)
so does this mean i will need both a master and slave replacement? if so, how will i convince nissan to get it done under warranty? my powertrain warranty runs out 6/2015, and i rather not wait until im stranded and need it towed to a dealership and pay out the @ss on bills. you already know nissan has a tendency to do whatever it takes to get out of work.

You should do a lot more reading on these topics than you appear to have done :twocents:

The CMC is much less labor than the CSC, so there's no point in doing the slave if just the master is going. Unless you're like me and do it as preventative maintenance - I went ahead and installed an aftermarket slave cylinder.

I have personally posted a lot of information in various threads regarding Nissan's attitude towards warranty coverage of several Powertrain items, CSC included. Basically, the will cover it under Powertrain (5yr/60K) if you get lots of work done at the dealer. If you spend a bunch of money there, they are more likely to give you what they call "good will" coverage. That means they don't have to cover it but they think you're a deserving customer. I'm not a deserving customer, so they can go fvck themselves. I'll DIY it and put in higher quality aftermarket parts instead of crappy prone-to-failure OEM parts. I love my Z, but Nissan can :gtfo2:

JARblue 10-07-2014 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe@ZSpeed (Post 2992249)
Wait patiently ;)

I know, but how long do I have to wait patiently?? I don't want to get prematurely :excited:

I have enough problems with that in the bedroom :eekdance: :roflpuke2:

wdkwang 10-07-2014 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992253)
You should do a lot more reading on these topics than you appear to have done :twocents:

The CMC is much less labor than the CSC, so there's no point in doing the slave if just the master is going. Unless you're like me and do it as preventative maintenance - I went ahead and installed an aftermarket slave cylinder.

I have personally posted a lot of information in various threads regarding Nissan's attitude towards warranty coverage of several Powertrain items, CSC included. Basically, the will cover it under Powertrain (5yr/60K) if you get lots of work done at the dealer. If you spend a bunch of money there, they are more likely to give you what they call "good will" coverage. That means they don't have to cover it but they think you're a deserving customer. I'm not a deserving customer, so they can go fvck themselves. I'll DIY it and put in higher quality aftermarket parts instead of crappy prone-to-failure OEM parts. I love my Z, but Nissan can :gtfo2:

if i'm reading that correctly, having the CMC replaced will alleviate the situation with the CSC and all will be good again? i will look through your threads in the meantime. today has been a very unproductive day at work.. :facepalm:

JARblue 10-07-2014 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdkwang (Post 2992277)
if i'm reading that correctly, having the CMC replaced will alleviate the situation with the CSC and all will be good again? i will look through your threads in the meantime. today has been a very unproductive day at work.. :facepalm:

The CMC and CSC are separate elements within the clutch system. Replacing the CMC has no impact on the condition of the CSC. Your CSC and CMC currently have XXXXX miles. If you replace just the CMC, the CSC still has however many miles on it. It could last a while or it might fail the day after you replace the CMC. As has been mentioned, there is no real warning before the CSC fails.

If your CSC fails first, then it is smart to go ahead and replace the CMC at the same time. You are already having to spend a lot of money on CSC labor, so the extra cost for the CMC replacement is peanuts in comparison. It doesn't make as much sense the other way around (like your scenario). If the part is covered under warranty, they will only replace whatever part(s) has(have) failed.

wdkwang 10-07-2014 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992289)
The CMC and CSC are separate elements within the clutch system. Replacing the CMC has no impact on the condition of the CSC. Your CSC and CMC currently have XXXXX miles. If you replace just the CMC, the CSC still has however many miles on it. It could last a while or it might fail the day after you replace the CMC. As has been mentioned, there is no real warning before the CSC fails.

If your CSC fails first, then it is smart to go ahead and replace the CMC at the same time. You are already having to spend a lot of money on CSC labor, so the extra cost for the CMC replacement is peanuts in comparison. It doesn't make as much sense the other way around (like your scenario). If the part is covered under warranty, they will only replace whatever part(s) has(have) failed.

Oh ok, that makes sense. Just sucks to think our cars are like ticking time bomb with these problems. I'm still a little paranoid about the steering lock mechanism failing on me one day, but I like that extra security since there have been cases of theft in my area in the past #becausenyc #newyorknewyork .

kenchan 10-07-2014 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdkwang (Post 2992307)
Just sucks to think our cars are like ticking time bomb with these problems.

its really not. just go easy on the clutch pedal...and for you, stop messing with the engagement point would be a good start considering you know so little about the clutch system...? :confused: just point it out..

SouthArk370Z 10-07-2014 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdkwang (Post 2992307)
... I'm still a little paranoid about the steering lock mechanism failing on me one day, but I like that extra security since there have been cases of theft in my area in the past #becausenyc #newyorknewyork .

The ESCL is easy to disable. See link in my sig.

The ESCL is not going to stop (or even slow down) anyone that wants to steal your car. They'll bring a flatbed and winch. Joy riders are going to pick a car that can be hot-wired in a hurry.

JARblue 10-07-2014 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdkwang (Post 2992307)
Just sucks to think our cars are like ticking time bomb with these problems.

That's why I replaced my CSC prior to it failing. I didn't want it to fail on me out in the middle of nowhere with no traffic and no cell service. Same with the ESCL - pull the fuse and no more worries. It probably wouldn't stop a good thief anyway. Do you actually engage it every time you park? If so, I bet it's getting more prone to failure each use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 2992319)
its really not. just go easy on the clutch pedal...

If you put miles on the car, they are. I am easy on the clutch pedal. I probably could have gotten 60-80K miles on the CSC before it failed. But I have no idea when it might fail. So I just used that as a good excuse to upgrade :icon17:

kenchan 10-07-2014 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992332)

If you put miles on the car, they are. I am easy on the clutch pedal. I probably could have gotten 60-80K on the CSC before it failed. But I have no idea when it might fail. So I just used that as a good excuse to upgrade :icon17:

if you track the car your rear diff bushing will also do a EW aka explode~! :icon17:

JARblue 10-07-2014 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 2992339)
if you track the car your rear diff bushing will also do a EW aka explode~! :icon17:

:rofl2:

My car has 6 total track laps on it from two years ago. Rear diff bushing just blew out last month at 55K miles :eekdance:

JARblue 10-07-2014 04:12 PM

Oh... and the rear differential bushing is NOT part of the drive train in case anyone was wondering :icon14:

Stupid Nissan :shakes head:

kenchan 10-07-2014 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992345)
:rofl2:

My car has 6 total track laps on it from two years ago. Rear diff bushing just blew out last month at 55K miles :eekdance:

yah, 6 hard track days will also accelerate your csc's life... i know i would be going for fast shifts on the track which will result in very high pressure for that tiny cylinder.

... this is about when FPenvy comes in to chime in about his slushbox superiority....:ugh:

JARblue 10-07-2014 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 2992348)
yah, 6 hard track days will also accelerate your csc's life... i know i would be going for fast shifts on the track which will result in very high pressure for that tiny cylinder.

lol not days... laps... as in like 15 minutes total on the track :icon17:

JARblue 10-07-2014 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 2992348)
... this is about when FPenvy comes in to chime in about his slushbox superiority....:ugh:

That's only drag strip threads :stirthepot: :icon17:

kenchan 10-07-2014 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992354)
lol not days... laps... as in like 15 minutes total on the track :icon17:

the hell were you doing 100000000000x shifts in 15min? :icon17:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992359)
That's only drag strip threads :stirthepot: :icon17:

he made sure to include roadcoarse, street, drag, yo mama :tup: :ugh2:

wdkwang 10-07-2014 04:24 PM

The engagement point was adjusted once only when I got the car by my mechanic friend. There are no issues from that. If you don't mind lifting the clutch half a foot between each shift then that's fortunate for you. Lower engagement is preferred by most people imo and makes it easier to feel for the engagement.

I take it easy most of the time on the clutch except for some hard pulls with power shifting, and clutch kicks when drifting here and there. No slippage yet, but I'm guessing there's maybe another 10-15k left in the clutch.

kenchan 10-07-2014 04:26 PM

hint... i depress the clutch all the way in during a shift, but my foot is completely off the pedal after the shift.

i think you got some odd habit going on there...

wdkwang 10-07-2014 04:31 PM

as do i. what is weird about my "habit"?

JARblue 10-07-2014 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 2992363)
the hell were you doing 100000000000x shifts in 15min? :icon17:

I pushed the Z within my limits. Hard shifts and lots of redlining :driving:

My CSC was actually still functioning when I replaced it 20K miles later (at ~50K miles). I sent it to fountainhead - he cut it open and put some pics in the engine/drivetrain tech section I'm pretty sure.

kenchan 10-07-2014 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992376)
I pushed the Z within my limits. Hard shifts and lots of redlining :driving:

My CSC was actually still functioning when I replaced it 20K miles later (at ~50K miles). I sent it to fountainhead - he cut it open and put some pics in the engine/drivetrain tech section I'm pretty sure.

:tup:

sounds good. thought you mentioned you had clutch pedal return issue, was that just from hot fluid or something or..? wat caused that, do you think?

MJB 10-07-2014 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 2992348)
... this is about when FPenvy comes in to chime in about his slushbox superiority....:ugh:

Wait, FPenvy's Z is auto? I don't think I've ever seen a thread where he has mentioned that.... :p

kenchan 10-07-2014 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJB (Post 2992380)
Wait, FPenvy's Z is auto? I don't think I've ever seen a thread where he has mentioned that.... :p

yah, he has some kind of complex with his AT for some reason...

gets real pissy and all. maybe his AT shaft is bent or something...lol not that i want to know. :ugh:

JARblue 10-07-2014 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdkwang (Post 2992366)
If you don't mind lifting the clutch half a foot between each shift then that's fortunate for you. Lower engagement is preferred by most people imo and makes it easier to feel for the engagement.

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here. By "lifting" do you mean letting the pedal come back up on it's own when you push it past the high engagement point? If so, what's the difference between that and having to push the clutch pedal further before engaging the clutch with a lower engagement point? Also, you don't have to push the clutch pedal passed the point of disengagement. A lower engagement point just equals more pedal travel. I'm not sure how it could possibly improve "feel" as you suggest.

With the exception of professional drivers, I can't imagine your foot travel is any different during hard (racing) shifts between a high engagement point and a low engagement point. You're pretty much going to be stomping on the clutch as hard and quickly as possible (all the way to the floor) and then letting off quickly and completely. I have a really low engagement but it is also super short. In a racing application I would adjust the upper switch, too, so that it stops the pedal barely above the engagement range. That way, as soon as I touch the pedal, it is manipulating the clutch. This allows the lower engagement point without the extra pedal travel.

JARblue 10-07-2014 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 2992378)
:tup:

sounds good. thought you mentioned you had clutch pedal return issue, was that just from hot fluid or something or..? wat caused that, do you think?

It was the CMC. That's why it was kinda sorta funky for a few days before I figured it out. If it had been the CSC, I would have lost the pedal entirely.

wdkwang 10-07-2014 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992400)
Not quite sure what you're trying to say here. By "lifting" do you mean letting the pedal come back up on it's own when you push it past the high engagement point? If so, what's the difference between that and having to push the clutch pedal further before engaging the clutch with a lower engagement point? Also, you don't have to push the clutch pedal passed the point of disengagement. A lower engagement point just equals more pedal travel. I'm not sure how it could possibly improve "feel" as you suggest.

With the exception of professional drivers, I can't imagine your foot travel is any different during hard (racing) shifts between a high engagement point and a low engagement point. You're pretty much going to be stomping on the clutch as hard and quickly as possible (all the way to the floor) and then letting off quickly and completely. I have a really low engagement but it is also super short. In a racing application I would adjust the upper switch, too, so that it stops the pedal barely above the engagement range. That way, as soon as I touch the pedal, it is manipulating the clutch. This allows the lower engagement point without the extra pedal travel.

i'm in line with how you like it. when i depress the clutch, i instinctively want to have it down to the floor. a low engagement point makes it easier for dd since there's less pivoting of the foot. just raise ur foot up an inch or so n it engages. i have some friends that prefer a high engagement point n their foot is basically hovering when engaging/disengaging. i tried it n it is the weirdest sh1t to me.

JARblue 10-07-2014 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdkwang (Post 2992407)
i'm in line with how you like it. when i depress the clutch, i instinctively want to have it down to the floor. a low engagement point makes it easier for dd since there's less pivoting of the foot. just raise ur foot up an inch or so n it engages. i have some friends that prefer a high engagement point n their foot is basically hovering when engaging/disengaging. i tried it n it is the weirdest sh1t to me.

So you are not a long time MT driver I take it? Some years of MT operation should develop your leg strength and muscle memory so that "hovering" your foot while operating the clutch becomes second nature.

wdkwang 10-07-2014 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992416)
So you are not a long time MT driver I take it? Some years of MT operation should develop your leg strength and muscle memory so that "hovering" your foot while operating the clutch becomes second nature.

I've only been driving stick for 4 years, but knowing myself, I wouldn't have it any other way in terms of clutch engagement. I know exactly where my clutch engages, I just want it to engage low is all. My style is to pivot my foot off the floor.

JARblue 10-07-2014 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdkwang (Post 2992446)
I've only been driving stick for 4 years, but knowing myself, I wouldn't have it any other way in terms of clutch engagement. I know exactly where my clutch engages, I just want it to engage low is all. My style is to pivot my foot off the floor.

I assume just the Z in those 4 years. Pivoting off the floor is fine if it works for you. I do it occasionally when I'm feeling lazy. But it doesn't work in all vehicles, so being able to adapt is key.

Keep on :driving:

wdkwang 10-07-2014 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2992501)
I assume just the Z in those 4 years. Pivoting off the floor is fine if it works for you. I do it occasionally when I'm feeling lazy. But it doesn't work in all vehicles, so being able to adapt is key.

Keep on :driving:

Yep. 99% of it on the z. I've driven a number of my friends' manual cars and also for one of my past jobs. A few of them had high engagement so pivoting didn't always work.


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