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-   -   SouthArk's Suggestions For Effective Posting (Grammar/Spelling Counts) (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/82061-southarks-suggestions-effective-posting-grammar-spelling-counts.html)

falconfixer 11-13-2013 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4r3s (Post 2566977)
Is the need to say all this really an indicator that the used 370s have come down in price enough that the younger generations are able to afford them now and it has led to an influx of idiots on the forum? Just speculating.

This could be an offshoot thread with it's own poll :tiphat:

marty31 11-13-2013 10:56 AM

When the prices of used Pontiac GTO's came down a few years after GM stopped production, the LS1 GTO forum became virtually unreadable. The ability to type reasonably literate is a dying trade and makes me sad for our future.

SouthArk370Z 11-13-2013 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2567139)
My buddy's HS English teacher GF would disagree with you. :rofl2:

I have a niece that just started teaching Journalism at the local high school. I'll have to ask her about this. Her POV may be different - I'm assuming that Journalism students would be more concerned about using proper English than the average student. I'm curious to see what she has to say about it.

Personally, I don't think things have changed that much over the years. Like most old farts, I like to reminisce about The Good Ole Days and bemoan the state of society and kids today but there were a lot of "barely literates" back when I was a kid. I think they are just more noticeable now.

I was lucky to be raised by parents that placed a very high value on education and I didn't have much choice but to learn how to write passable English. All too often, parents just don't take the time/effort to instill a passion to learn in their kids. Thanks, Mom and Dad, for encouraging me to learn all I could and kicking my a$$ when it needed it. :tiphat:

Chuck33079 11-13-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 2567222)
I have a niece that just started teaching Journalism at the local high school. I'll have to ask her about this. Her POV may be different - I'm assuming that Journalism students would be more concerned about using proper English than the average student. I'm curious to see what she has to say about it.

Well, modern journalism has **** the bed too. Have you read some of the news "articles" available on the internet? :rofl2:

I think writing skills are underemphasized in schools these days since it's all about passing the standardized tests so the school can get funded.

SouthArk370Z 11-13-2013 12:11 PM

Just had lunch with my Dad and he says the niece is complaining about how many of the students can't write. I thanked him for making me get a good education. ;)

onzedge 11-13-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 2567273)
Just had lunch with my Dad and he says the niece is complaining about how many of the students can't write. I thanked him for making me get a good education. ;)

:tup:

Chuck33079 11-13-2013 12:15 PM

Being able to write well has been very helpful my entire life. I don't understand why it's not emphasized more today. Hell, I made a lot of money in college writing other people's papers. :rofl2:

dAvenue 11-13-2013 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2567232)
I think writing skills are underemphasized in schools these days since it's all about passing the standardized tests so the school can get funded.

my wife is a high school math teacher and tells me all about it. their #1 complaint is prepping students for State tests. it takes most of their time away from teaching fundamentals. good material is skipped over because it's not on the State's curriculum. :rolleyes:

4r3s 11-13-2013 12:25 PM

I think I used a strong word in calling them idiots. Maybe lazy is a better term.

waaaasabi 11-13-2013 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 2567273)
Just had lunch with my Dad and he says the niece is complaining about how many of the students can't write. I thanked him for making me get a good education. ;)

Effective writing is a lot more difficult than people think; it requires forethought, a robust grasp on the tools of language, and an understanding of the socio-cultural norms of the audience. A good education may help in some facets of a person's writing ability, but at the higher education levels (college and above), where specialization is prominent, I don't think there's much correlation between education and writing ability. I went to an Ivy League school (not a backdoor humblebrag, I swear) with some of the brightest people in the country, and many of them couldn't write for sh*t.

As for hoping for any sort of writing standards on any forum, online or otherwise, it's a futile exercise. As long as someone can get their point across somewhat well, then they're golden in my book.

Chuck33079 11-13-2013 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAvenue (Post 2567287)
my wife is a high school math teacher and tells me all about it. their #1 complaint is prepping students for State tests. it takes most of their time away from teaching fundamentals. good material is skipped over because it's not on the State's curriculum. :rolleyes:

Yep. I hear teachers venting about it every weekend. :rofl2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by waaaasabi (Post 2567293)
As for hoping for any sort of writing standards on any forum, online or otherwise, it's a futile exercise. As long as someone can get their point across somewhat well, then they're golden in my book.

That's the issue. A lot of our members can't even manage that and get pissy when we point out that we could help them better if they didnt write like a complete retard.

SouthArk370Z 11-13-2013 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4r3s (Post 2567291)
I think I used a strong word in calling them idiots. Maybe lazy is a better term.

I didn't take it literally; I thought you were being hyperbolic. But, yeah, most could write much better if they only made the effort.

As far as I can tell, many younger people can and do write well. It's just that the few bad ones stick out like a sore thumb.

Parents: Encourage your kids to read. A lot. They will at least learn what looks/sounds right even if they don't know why.

spryor 11-13-2013 01:56 PM

English 101
 
SouthArk370Z,

Do NOT take this personal. Just charge it to my head, not my heart. I am just expressing my thoughts in a mild mattered way.

We all appreciate your suggestions, but this is not an on-line English 101 college course. We all have different educational backgrounds. It is not all that crucial, ease up and have some fun communicating your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions about automobiles.

I am getting off the subject a little bit here but needs to be mentioned. I found this article to be quite interesting. Although it was not peer-reviewed or originated from a scholarly academic journal, I found it to be a fairly easy to read, well-written article in reference to college-educated people that cannot find jobs in their fields. Getting a college degree (doctorate, graduate, bachelors, or associates) is not what it used to be. If anything, it will cost you a lot of money and possibly little return value on your investment. Of course, there are always rules to the exception. Do not get me wrong, I still believe that people in this country and elsewhere should still get the basics of an education in order to be able to maneuver and survive in this capitalist society. If an individual can get a college degree and not have to take pay it back through a student loan, then they are well ahead of the job market game!

In summary, back to the introductory topic, SouthArk370Z, ease up on individuals that are not as well-versed as you are when it comes down to expressing or conveying their thoughts on electronic paper.

Regards,

spryor

P.S. Based on your username, I am not sure if you are from southern Arkansas. If you are, I found the following educational attainment statistics forecasting the percentage of jobs requiring a college degree through 2018 to be quite interesting for your state, compiled by Georgetown University.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 2566091)
These are just my suggestions and are not endorsed by this site or anybody else.

When writing anything, you need to "write to your audience." If your writings are meant for young children, you need to use simple concepts/vocabulary and thoroughly explain any new concepts/words. If you're writing your [professional paper, thesis, or]doctoral dissertation, you want to use as many "big words" as possible and you can assume the reader is familiar with advanced concepts and words [discourse community]. Forum posts fall somewhere in-between.

The main thing you want to do is write so that the forums members will understand what you mean. This is the foundation of everything that follows. If people can't understand what you are typing, you are wasting your time and Internet resources.

In order for all parties to understand each other, they must use a common language. On this site, that's English. I don't think "foreign" language posts are forbidden on this site but you severely limit your audience if you don't use English.

No one here expects perfection but at least try to use something close to proper English. Many members, who could be very helpful, just don't have the time and/or inclination to decipher poor English. They will ignore your post and move on to something that is not so much work to understand. As long as your comments are easy to understand, few will complain (too much) but grammar and spelling do count if you want others to understand you.

Text-speak is frowned on by many members on this site - heavily frowned on in the tech sections - use it at your own risk.

If you start a topic, make the title meaningful. "I Need Help" is NOT a good title. "Need Help Reinstalling Throttle Bodies" works much better. Eschew abbreviations in the title*. Eg, don't use TBs for Throttle Bodies in the previous example. If you are asking a question, put a question mark somewhere in the title. I'm not sure how many characters you can use in the title but you have lots of room - make use of it.

Post new threads in the appropriate section of the site. Are-you-going-to-some-event posts do not belong in the tech forums and VVEL discussions shouldn't be in the social forums. Sometimes it's difficult to decide which is the most appropriate forum to post in - try to get close. Put a post about fuel injection in one of the Engine & Drivetrain sections (depending on the subject, it could go in FI or tuning, pick the one you think fits best; Exhaust is probably not applicable), not Wheels & Tires.

If you are asking for help, be as complete and as precise as you can. Explain the symptoms and give step-by-step details on what you have already tried and the results. If you are having problems understanding something you have read somewhere, include a link(s) to the source.


I'll add more as I think of it or if other members make suggestions I like.


* (Abbreviations are OK in comments. You may want to spell out the term the first time you use it and add the abbreviation in parentheses after. Eg, ... Throttle Body (TB) ...)


SouthArk370Z 11-13-2013 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spryor (Post 2567406)
SouthArk370Z,

Do NOT take this personal. Just charge it to my head, not my heart. I am just expressing my thoughts in a mild mattered way.

We all appreciate your suggestions, but this is not an on-line English 101 college course. We all have different educational backgrounds. It is not all that crucial, ease up and have some fun communicating your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions about automobiles. ...

No offense taken. Not sure why you thought I might take it personal.

No one is asking for perfection; only that it be understandable. I assault the King's English on a regular basis so I don't think I can expect better from others. But I at least make an effort to write so that Joe Average can read what I type and make some sense of it. I may not always succeed, but I try.

They are just my suggestions. Feel free to reject them, in part or in whole, if you don't agree with them. Or tell me what you think should be said and, if I agree, I'll make some edits to the OP.

JARblue 11-13-2013 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spryor (Post 2567406)
I am just expressing my thoughts in a mild mannered way.

Might as well turn this into a grammar/spelling nazi thread :icon17:

fzgood 11-13-2013 02:43 PM

As a 20-something product of public schools I appreciate this thread. I hate viewing anything written like a reminder scribbled on a wrinkled napkin.

onzedge 11-13-2013 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2567479)
Might as well turn this thread in a grammar/spelling nazi thread :icon17:

Keep going -- I count 7 errors in Mr. Spryor's post and that was based on a quick scan. It cracks me up when people try to elucidate the finer points of English usage and grammar for us poor simpletons and then slaughter the very language in the attempt.

Chuck33079 11-13-2013 02:54 PM

Southark- "Please make your posts understandable"
spryor- "This isn't English class, college degrees aren't worth much anyway, Arkansas sucks."

Did I follow that correctly? It seems like I missed a step somewhere. Or someone completely missed the point of the first post. :rofl2:

JARblue 11-13-2013 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onzedge (Post 2567497)
Keep going -- I count 7 errors in Mr. Spryor's post and that was based on a quick scan. It cracks me up when people try to elucidate the finer points of English usage and grammar for us poor simpletons and then slaughter the very language in the attempt.

I stopped counting... In the first few sentences, I found an incorrect idiom, incorrect usage of a hyphen, missing punctuation, and a run-on sentence :icon14:

JARblue 11-13-2013 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2567508)
Southark- "Please make your posts understandable"
spryor- "This isn't English class, college degrees aren't worth much anyway, Arkansas sucks."

Did I follow that correctly? It seems like I missed a step somewhere. Or someone completely missed the point of the first post. :rofl2:

:icon18:

Magic Bus 11-13-2013 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4r3s (Post 2566977)
Is the need to say all this really an indicator that the used 370s have come down in price enough that the younger generations are able to afford them now and it has led to an influx of idiots on the forum? Just speculating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2567016)
Yeah, now that an 09 is a $2ok car, it's gotten worse. In another few years when it's a $10k car and high school students can buy them, this place will be a barren wasteland of stupidity, stretched tires and hellaflush.

Exactly why we need to praise and not bash the BRZ/FRS twins. Let's keep the illiterate plus monetarily less fortunate people on the other forums.

I enjoy reading many of the insightful, humorous posts on this forum and would dearly miss it, if that were to change. :tiphat:

onzedge 11-13-2013 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2567508)
Southark- "Please make your posts understandable"
spryor- "This isn't English class, college degrees aren't worth much anyway, Arkansas sucks."

Did I follow that correctly? It seems like I missed a step somewhere. Or someone completely missed the point of the first post. :rofl2:

Oh, the irony. A Nissan Versa driver from Tennessee poking fun at someone ostensibly from Arkansas is amusing to me somehow. Doing so on a 370Z forum and toward a respected forum member makes it even more precious.

SouthArk370Z 11-13-2013 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 2567479)
Might as well turn this into a grammar/spelling nazi thread :icon17:

While that was meant to be (and taken as) a joke, let me emphasize that this thread was not meant to demand perfect spelling/grammar. Wasn't meant to demand anything at all, hence the "Suggestions" in the title. In this particular case, it was pretty easy to figure out what was meant and the rest of the comment was readable, so I chalked it up to a typo and went on. But, yeah, spelling/grammar errors in a thread complaining about spelling/grammar errors are rather humorous. ;)

I was only trying to point out that people will be better able to communicate if they try to use proper English (or whatever language their audience is using). I hope my suggestions for avoiding the most common errors I've noticed will help someone. Yeah, I realize that those that need it the most are the least likely to read it (or act on it if they do read it) but it made me feel better to type it out. ;)

My intent was certainly not to muster a Grammar Nazi Posse to correct minor errors. We all make errors, whether through carelessness or ignorance. All I'm asking is that people try to write something that others can understand. I'm not trying to force anyone to use proper English - I can always put the worst offenders on my ignore list if I feel like it - I'm just trying to help them get the car help they want by effectively describing the problem and/or asking questions that make sense.

Whew! I figured this thread would get a few comments but nothing like this.

SouthArk370Z 11-13-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onzedge (Post 2567525)
Oh, the irony. A Nissan Versa driver from Tennessee poking fun at someone ostensibly from Arkansas is amusing to me somehow. Doing so on a 370Z forum and toward a respected forum member makes it even more precious.

meh You'd be surprised how often being thought of as a dumb hick can work to one's advantage ... if one is devious enough. :happydance:

And he has a point. Although the U of A is (arguably) a world-class institution of learning and we have several other well-respected unis (plus world HQs for Wal-Mart and Murphy Oil, among others), we still have a lot of people with "below-standard education."

If nothing else, we have "the only diamond-producing site in the world open to the public"! :P

Edit: Oh! Arkansans are smart enough to have a balanced state budget. There's a lot of states that can't make that claim.

onzedge 11-13-2013 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 2567564)
meh You'd be surprised how often being thought of as a dumb hick can work to one's advantage ... if one is devious enough. :happydance:

And he has a point. Although the U of A is (arguably) a world-class institution of learning and we have several other well-respected unis (plus world HQs for Wal-Mart and Murphy Oil, among others), we still have a lot of people with "below-standard education."

If nothing else, we have "the only diamond-producing site in the world open to the public"! :P

Edit: Oh! Arkansans are smart enough to have a balanced state budget. There's a lot of states that can't make that claim.

My ancestors on my father's side hail from Mountain Home, Arkansas.

SouthArk370Z 11-13-2013 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onzedge (Post 2567578)
My ancestors on my father's side hail from Mountain Home, Arkansas.

That makes you half-Hillbilly! :tup:

onzedge 11-13-2013 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 2567588)
That makes you half-Hillbilly! :tup:

Correct. :tiphat:

JARblue 11-13-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 2567535)
Whew! I figured this thread would get a few comments but nothing like this.

Eloquently put, sir :tiphat:

Your original post (OP) made perfect sense to me and seems to have appealed to the sensibilities of many active and helpful members. Many of them also have a sense of humor, which is refreshing.

alcheng 11-13-2013 05:09 PM

so, what is this thread for....?

I want to learn some English...

you know... I am a Chinese.... :bowrofl:

JARblue 11-13-2013 05:09 PM

I will also add that I do not have a college degree. I had the educational benefit of attending a private middle school, which did not bend to the will of the almighty state budget. I was actually taught grammar and spelling.

Chuck33079 11-13-2013 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcheng (Post 2567699)
so, what is this thread for....?

I want to learn some English...

you know... I am a Chinese.... :bowrofl:

Step one- one period per sentence. :p

alcheng 11-13-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2567704)
Step one- one period per sentence. :p

So what you are saying is I should just use one period per sentence instead of putting multiple of them at the end but sometimes I thought a single period makes the sentence ended bluntly therefore I want to softer the tone so I put multiple of them to make it looks like it is fading out slowly and gently then the reader will not think I am being rude since I want to make friends in this forum which in fact I am very happy because so far I have make lots of friends in here even though I don't speak/type English very well but you guys are being very very generous and patient which is very very nice and the next thing I have to learn on English is how and where to put comma because I know you are getting breathless while reading this sentence and thinking "when and where is the damn pause...??" oh sorry I used multiple punctuations again I will keep that in mind next time and now I will finish my sentence with a single period therefore you can breath again thank you.

:icon17:

Chuck33079 11-13-2013 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcheng (Post 2567760)
So what you are saying is I should just use one period per sentence instead of putting multiple of them at the end but sometimes I thought a single period makes the sentence ended bluntly therefore I want to softer the tone so I put multiple of them to make it looks like it is fading out slowly and gently then the reader will not think I am being rude since I want to make friends in this forum which in fact I am very happy because so far I have make lots of friends in here even though I don't speak/type English very well but you guys are being very very generous and patient which is very very nice and the next thing I have to learn on English is how and where to put comma because I know you are getting breathless while reading this sentence and thinking "when and where is the damn pause...??" oh sorry I used multiple punctuations again I will keep that in mind next time and now I will finish my sentence with a single period therefore you can breath again.

:icon17:

Mother of god, that's quite the run on sentence. Well done.

alcheng 11-13-2013 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2567768)
Mother of god, that's quite the run on sentence. Well done.


:tiphat:

I learn something new everyday.


:bowrofl::bowrofl:

H2O_Doc 11-13-2013 07:15 PM

I like the thread and the fact that Southark (aka baja Missouri) posted it. I think one can work on their grammar and language skills without feeling like the "language Nazis" are taking over. I do a lot of technical writing and speaking, but I know I can improve and want to (lord knows I demonstrated my room for improvement here).

It's in the delivery and intent. Helping someone learn is different than mocking or entertaining oneself at the expense of another. Speaking of which, anyone note the irony of an Arkansas boy schooling us up speaking 'Mercian?

onzedge 11-13-2013 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcheng (Post 2567760)
So what you are saying is I should just use one period per sentence instead of putting multiple of them at the end but sometimes I thought a single period makes the sentence ended bluntly therefore I want to softer the tone so I put multiple of them to make it looks like it is fading out slowly and gently then the reader will not think I am being rude since I want to make friends in this forum which in fact I am very happy because so far I have make lots of friends in here even though I don't speak/type English very well but you guys are being very very generous and patient which is very very nice and the next thing I have to learn on English is how and where to put comma because I know you are getting breathless while reading this sentence and thinking "when and where is the damn pause...??" oh sorry I used multiple punctuations again I will keep that in mind next time and now I will finish my sentence with a single period therefore you can breath again thank you.

:icon17:

You are the man. :tiphat:

alcheng 11-14-2013 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onzedge (Post 2567879)
You are the man. :tiphat:

Thank you sir. :tiphat:

Elan 11-14-2013 07:33 AM

I totally agree with SouthArk. I think grammar and spelling is very important. I am no English major myself, thus I don't have perfect grammar either. I still try my best. I know there are some members on here that talk like "Hai guyz. I needz da help wit my Z prblmz. PLS HELP!" This literally makes my blood boil. Why does any human being type this way? Even when I text, I still take the extra 2 seconds to spell the d@mn word. I do think it's quite humorous when we call said person out. As if by an act of God himself, their grammar and spelling improve ten fold. That being said to everyone that cannot understand my post...

PLZ SPELL WORDZ CRRECTLY. U MAKE URSELF LOOK BAD N DONE DID NO SKOOL.

JARblue 11-14-2013 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elan (Post 2568484)
Even when I text, I still take the extra 2 seconds to spell the d@mn word.

I'm glad I'm not the only one :tiphat:

ElVee 11-14-2013 09:04 AM

can some1 help me find the best ehxaust for my car its a base model with sport plus tires that are weraring out also need to replace nav base stero and need suggests thx!


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