Big difference between a BRZ fighter and Porshe competition... Guess which way we're going.

I think we should compete with Jeeps.

come at me Jeep
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ps8148237e.jpg

Did you not read the "wishful thinking" part of my comment? I know this is not going to happen. Besides, I could care less about going back to the roots. What, you'd rather have a BRZ fighter as the next Z? I'd prefer a more powerful Z from the factory. A RWD, 2-seater slotted beneath the GTR is the Z I want. Something to compete with base Vettes and Carreras.

Like you, I don't want the future Z to be in the BRZ category. If Nissan goes that route, looks like I'll be keeping my 13Z for a while then move on to a different car company.

However, if they do add more power, shed weight in the right places, it should improve upon it's great handling and driving dynamics. I would trade up to a newer Z, even if it costs a little more.

They can barely sell 2013 $37,000 sport package z. I highly doubt a price increase to compete with porshe is the best idea, you guys stop with that.

The biggest upgrade Nissan needs take to help sell the Z is in the marketing department. When's the last time you saw a commercial with a Z front and center that wasn't being stretched into a Maxima by an expecting father?

Lol, they need to make it 400HP or close to it too.
Just make it direct injection at least!

Jungle, Exactly why I want it that way. You won't get one :rofl2:

"we have to go lighter and more fuel efficient" sounds like a BRZ fighter to me!
Jay Leno at Nissan DNA Heritage Garage - YouTube

No issue with the Z being more powerful. But ugh, a v8 will kill everything about the car. Our car plows hard in corners now when stock and has an understeer issue when taking a corner at the limit.
Imagine how that will go with a 5.0L v8?

Not necessarily. A weight reduction and over 300hp would still keep it a Cayman fighter. The FR-S/BRZ is in everyones mouth cuz it's the new kid on the block. But that doesn't mean we need to compete with such a low powered vehicle.

Cars the z needs to worry about in terms of power

Porsche Cayman S chrono.
BMW 135is
Audi TT-S
BMW Z4
Possibly the next generation Hyundai gencoupe 3.8? (still questionable if it will be comp?)

:iagree:

I would prefer the Z continue to targeting "higher-end" vehicles.

If they really want a FRS fighter, Silvia all the way.

Agree. It will never happen but this is how I picture it. GTR = Halo. Z= Mid-Premium range sports car and a reinvented Silva or 240sx = BRZ/FRS fighter.

The last thing I want is a cheaper Z to boost sales and compete with the FRS/BRZ.

Notwithstanding price and whatever qualia the 86 twins claim, the Z beats it in every way -- lux, power, actual (over imagined) handling and braking.

It's still a bargin basement Porsche or perhaps fighting with the US Muscle/Pony cars for customers. The other major competitor is the Genesis.

About the same (or a little less) weight plus another 25-50 ponies, further chassis refinement, other nettling issues resolved (e.g., fuel starve) and we're there.

Ooooh I wants me the next gen Z -- bring on the concept already! :excited:

On the weight: Anyone know what the Q50 is supposed to be coming in at? I'm guessing we can expect similar weight difference between current Z:current G and next gen Z:Q50.

:iagree: They are taking the whole fun factor BS of the 86 and running with it like a freight train with no brakes. Point is, this car can barely dent a Civic on a track. Let alone any of the Big Boys. The gencoupe 2.0 is a track beast by comparison of the FR-S.

Fun factor on that car is high. But FR-S reviews are definitely one-sided and convoluted.

the z being a japanese mustang It should at least be able to go toe to toe vs the new gen mustang, (lighter weight/ 475hp)

Only way to do this is to go F/i /v8 or drastic weight reduction, I am talking sub 3000lbs with 350+ hp

What are you willing to give up to cut that weight? Are you ok with a price increase, since lightweight materials cost more than heavier ones?

I think it's the japanese mustang only because of price AND MOST JAPANESE CARS HAVE RELATIVELY LOW HP. The Z is one of very few RWD cars in japan priced with mid-range hp sedans(250-300hp) and has high hp for japan standards. Most VERY high hp japanese cars are in a high price range, GTR, LFA. Then cheaper high hp cars are usually AWD sedans. EVO, STi... Japans mustang is calling it Japans affordable sport coupe. Which up until the LFA/FR-S. Nissan made all of their coupes for nearly a decade. Fairlady, Skyline and GT-R.

I would be willing to bet that the Z will only hit sub 3k weight by getting its own platform and while that would be nice, I doubt Nissan has the cash flow to do such a thing.

While I really want the Z to stay relevant against new muscle, Nissan is not Ford and it is entirely plausible that the Z simply won't be able to match the new Mustang at all. Provided Ford gets it right and hits the right marks.

Personally, with the GTR moving past the $100k mark, I do feel it opens up the top end of the range on the Z to have some growing room. Depending on what they did with the Z, I would have no problem with a top end Z being $60k and competing head to head with the Cayman S again.

Things I would look for would be a transaxle setup, DCT and/or better MT, 3000-3100 weight with upwards of 400hp (don't really care how be it NA, FI, etc.). The interior of the Z is already pretty solid and comparable enough imo.

Would still like to see the Z start in the $30 range and then scale up to the $60k mark if it needs too.

What would be really cool (and I think would work well for Nissan long-term) would be to design a new platform that gets dedicated to the Z and a new Silvia. Have the Silvia be pretty bare bones and live in the $17k-$28k range to get some volume and then have the Z be ~$33k-$60k as a more focused sports car with the GTR staying where it is (although I would like to see it sub-$100k again but whatevs). Silvia could use the current Juke motor up'ed to 2.0L and have it cap around 260-280hp, with the Z using probably whatever they have already come up with.

Anyway, that is what I would pay!!! :D

That's more or less where my mindset is at. The GT-R is getting expensve and Infiniti's IPL will be in the same price range next year. Nissan is leaving the $25,000-50,000 sport coupe market kinda empty.

We need th Silvia IF the Z is going to go upscale up to $60k. That will leave the Z possibly starting between $35,000-40,000. The Silvia can start @ $27k and top out @36k and give is the est. 250-300hp.

Z would do well with an entry 350hp $35,000
A nismo tuned 400hp $43,000
And maybe a LIMITED twin-turbo 480hp? $55,000

I'm on board with this, but once we get near c7 prices I'm going to need near c7 power.

The Z may have better than C7 handling next gen if a TT came out???

Besides my only gripe with the vette??? Too wide!!!

I like your guys idea of a 2016 Z variant in the Silvia category and a second mid range Z with higher performance. I think if Nissan did this, it would be safe to say that the mid range Z would not have the power of a C7 Vette, nor the price of one either, as the Vette has never been it's target in the past.

Question, if the 2016Z came out with the two models, would you want them to look the same?

I would want some type of body kit for distinction. Even if it's mild.

Not sure of anyone posted this. Hopefully the z35 will address some of these things.

Three simple reasons why the Nissan 370Z cannot compete in the US

Meh... These reasons ONLY hold partial validity.

No 2+2 seating being a reason is weak. While 2+2 seating may help sales. It's really not what the Z was from the start so... I think it's a "if you don't like it? Tough" point.

400hp. The Z not competing against a mustang is somewhat right and somewhat wrong. The right part is the Z pricing compared to a mustang GT, there is a value issue. But is adding 400hp to the Z the end all be all of competition with the muscle brand???
I think the Z can keep a 100hp deficit, IF they can refine the motor, improve the transmissions, lose the weight,improve suspension and other tech points necessary to make the Z more agile and faster.

While in some ways, the Z has to be more comparable in performance to the muscle cars, to a point. It bothers me that writers exclaim that the Z needs to be a muscle car. It does not!!!!

Exactly. The writer of that article completely misses the point. A Mustang GT has more power and a more useable back seat than a 911, while costing less than half. By his criteria, that means Porsche can't compete. Just because today's muscle (I'd argue pony) cars are closer in performance to more traditional sports cars, doesn't mean they're competitors in any category but price.

It's a two seater. Obviously they appeal to a smaller market. There is a 370Z 2+2 option. It's called a G37 coupe, and it seems to sell very well. I see them everywhere. Add in those sales to the Z's sales if we want a apples to apples comparison.

The comparisons to the Toyobaru aren't really that valid, since the twins are more comperable to a hardtop Miata or new 240sx.

In regards to that "3 reasons why the nissan z cannot compete in the us:" Does anyone anywhere want the Nissan Z to sell Mustang-like units of 80,000+? I don't think even Nissan is aiming anywhere near that.

The author hits the valid point of cost, but the 2+2 is silly and having less hp than a Mustang, while true, is not necessarily the fighting point for everyone. I can't say I've once thought of the Z as a muscle car, and thus competing with them. The Toybaru being around probably actually helps stir up interest, and certainly gets rid of the youngsters who starve themselves so they can afford a $25k used Z.

Anyway, the author picked a fight with a low-production car that is 4 years old and due for an upgrade. You could probably make a similarly useless article about any car with those two criteria.

Now, if the author had started talking about competition from the Alfa Romero 4C or compared against the newer Audi TT...

YES. Have you seen how cheap quality aftermarket parts get when they've got a market of that size? You could probably build an entire Mustang out of a Jegs catalog for the cost of a 370 turbo kit.

lmaooooo truth!

Maybe the Z now is what the S2K was 10 years ago. Sure, it's a great 2-seater, Japanese sports car for around $30K. However, it's just falls a bit short on performance so only the biggest fans buy them.

Damn no boost for the V6. If they dont turbo the v6 they might as well scrap the Z line. 350hp is nothin nowadays lol.

I really just want to vent about this article quick.

1) Author thinks Hyundai is Japanese, and that 16hp easily makes up for 144 lbs in extra weight.
2) Author thinks horsepower is the only way to measure the performance of a sports car.
3) Author thinks a prospective 370Z buyer will opt for a BRZ because of a back seat.

The author only has an article title. And sales numbers. But the rest of it is pretty much garbage.

The backseat argument is weak. How many sports cars out there don't have a back seat? Miata, Cayman, Corvette, Z, Camaro Z28, Mustang Boss 302, BMW Z4, Honda S2000, just to name a few. I agree the option is nice, but if the lack of availability of a back seat turns you away from any of these cars, then a sports car isn't what you are in the market for in the first place. On top of that, he adds that it has a tiny interior. Seating space in a Z (for the driver - the important part) is larger than that of an FRS. He conveniently leaves the Miata out of that argument.

The fixation on horsepower really makes me think the author has only ever driven a "sports" car on a dragstrip. Ever tried to sail a Challenger around a tight road course against a Z? I would imagine the extra 1000 pounds doesn't help much. It really doesn't matter that the Challenger has 460hp compared to the Z's 332 in this context. Stupid argument. If you like the sound of a V8, excellent. The Z hasn't been in your pool of consideration for the last 43 years.

The car is priced a bit high to make it truly competitive in today's market, and that's not because it's not a great performer for the dollar. The 370Z can hang with a Cayman around a track, and that car is $15k more in price. Unfortunately these days, car buyers don't see the value in that comparison. Bang for the buck thrill for simpler-minded drivers goes to the big three - Camaro, Challenger, Mustang. They perform great and the put your head back in the seat and Americans are typically built a little bigger on average so a big muscle car is just... easier. I get it.

Stupid articles like this aren't going to make the Z a better car, IMHO. Stupid articles like this are written by stupid journalists who have a very vague knowledge of the s*** they're writing about. This article is a lazy a** interpretation of sales numbers written by a dude that drives a Corolla XRS on an autocross course and considers himself a sports car aficionado. Hopefully there aren't too many people like him influencing the product planners at Nissan for the next gen Z.

:iagree: i just couldnt be bothered to even consider writing an opinion on that piece of garbage they called an article and i've said it before, but could the Z use some improvement? yes, but not in the way that the dumb *** that wrote that article describes, he just completely misses the point of what the Z was intended for in the first place...hell even nissan's advertising campaigns in europe straight out told you who they were going after when they made the 370Z lol

i would actually disagree with you on that point, i feel the 370z is a great sports car making great power

our cars will outperform v6 pony cars with full bolt ons and a tune bone stock and we have track(depends on the driver and what type of racing is done) performance that is on par or outperforms the GT mustang, ss camaro, challenger srt8

other competitors like the genesis coupe(really that car is aimed at the G37), Toyobaru twins, and other 2+2 sports cars just dont compare to the 370z

just look at the genesis coupe 3.8 rspec for example, that car looks amazing on paper, it makes 348hp, 290 tq, has brembo brakes, options for either a 6MT or 8AT and it costs 35k fully loaded but if you have ever seen a genesis coupe run on the track, its fast for the first few turns and then brake fade just screws everything up(and thats mostly due to hyundai not having any kind of vents going to all 4 brakes and not the brakes themselves)


I feel the author of the article is just paper racing, comparing stats like HP and torque and making their decision based on that while there are a **** ton of other factors that comes into making a good car(like the one people always forget is p2w, you can have a 400hp car, but if it weighs 4.5k lbs, it isnt going to be faster than a 2k lbs car with 250hp

The author doesn't know the difference between a sports car and a sports coupe.

We can all agree on one thing... That was the worst Z based article we've ever read. And I know I've read some stupid and inaccurate Z articles over the last 3 or 4 years. But this one took the cake. It also shows how extreme these stupid mustang comparisons are going. This articles poor insinuations further proves that Mustangs and Z can only be compared to a small degree. Something we enjoy doing on here which goes to the point of ridiculousness.