With a better alignment and tire selection, it may not even need a bump in power. But i would love to see an extra 30lbs of torque, to give that fear of being uncontrollable at the limit while in a corner. :tup:

Thought I'd add some interesting stats regarding the debate on price or the economic situation regarding the sales of Z's. This is not scientific and the models may or have changed during this period, so derive from it what you want. I picked these years because the American economy began it's slide in 2007, so 2006 was the last good full year. I chose 2009 also because the stock market stopped it's slide. Numbers are from goodcarbadcar.net

US Sales only.
Nissan Z 2006 - 24,635, 2009 - 13,117, 2012 - 7,338
Corvette 2006 - 36,518, 2009 - 13,934, 2012 - 14,132
Cayman 2006 - 7,025, 2009 - 1,966, 2012 - 462
Audi TT 2006 - 954, 2009 - 1,935, 2012 2,226

One anomaly noticed, Audi TT Year 2007 - 4,356, Year 2008 - 4486

You can buy this car right now. It's called the Hyundai Veloster. Ewwww. Come on Nissan, you can do much better than that.

http://i.imgur.com/reVC9Qm.png

This article seems suspect but Nissan could stay on the track of competing with Porsche and BMW instead of FRS/BRZ. 350 HP won't cut it either.

Sure, why not? How much is a base Corvette? Can you think of a modern muscle car that weighs close to 3100 lbs? So yes, I would pay that much for that kind of a Z.

Would absolutely LOVE to see them pick up the DCT and throw the tranny in back like the GTR. They could change nothing else but those two things and I would jump on it in a heart beat. They could even leave on the 2013 front fascia.

I'll pass on the DCT, but the transaxle would be great. The problem is the cost of something like that. People are already complaining that the Z isn't a great value at $35-45k. Adding something like that would cost quite a bit of money, especially when you have so few sales to amortize the costs over. And then it would be too close to the GTR, Nissan's halo car. They won't let that happen. It's the same reason the Cayman will never get as good of an engine as a 911. Car manufacturers don't want to cannibalize halo car sales.

Unlike most. I don't compare the Z with muscle cars. I believe Z capability against muscle cars is nice but should be an afterthought. The porsche cayman with chrono pkg should be the benchmark.
Before i think of what other car companies are doing. I think of where the Z originated from and its philosophy of use. (For all you TNP'ers out there. lol) From there i think of the car Nissan chooses to benchmark. From there i make in my head a parameter of expectations where mustangs and corvettes don't come into play.

Now if the end result is, the Z could hang with the muscle cars??? Kewl beans. I got more than I expected. But I'm looking at a car called the cayman when i consider my parameters.

I believe people who deeply desire muscle car performance should just go ahead and purchase muscle cars. :tup:

If they would give us a better MT, I would be ok without the DCT, but I am just so jaded against their ability to do that.

However, considering the Z uses a shared platform, if the other vehicles sell decently, I could see switch to a transaxle as not moving the needle too terribly much on pricing. Could be entirely wrong though. Especially if the other cars are not selling well and if switching to transaxle will mess up too much with those other vehicles.

Still....dare to dream. :D

The 911 is a huge range of configurations from 85k - 180k starting price. Porsche probably makes money on each and every one.

Nissan has 2 sports cars not making them any money right now. Nissan needs the Z to have more range by keeping the base model in the 30k area and then a true high performance model in the 50-55k area. The NISMO model needs more than marginally better performance. It needs another engine choice.

I don't have a problem with my 6mt, but I seem to be in the minority here on that one. Either Nissan would have to redesign the shared platform to accept a transaxle, or the Z would have to be a one-off. Both of those are prohibitively expensive, especially for a car selling <10k units a year. The best we can hope for mechanically is moving to DI and adding some torque/mpg that way, and cutting back on the weight. Anything beyond that seems pretty unikely.

Right, but a $70k Cayman with the 991 motor would draw sales from the $85k 911. That's the point I was trying to make.

I agree that the Nismo needs to be more special, but I don't think any scenario where the Z ends up in the $55k range works. That's pretty much what killed the 300ZX. Splitting the line for two very different models is a huge risk for a vehicle that sells so few units. I don't see Renault taking that kind of a risk.

What is more risky - offering the same model with different levels at different price points or introducing another model - a.k.a a BRZ competitor. I think the magic formula is to find a way to take the next Z down in weight a little and stock power and compete with the BRZ/FRS while also having a superior engine/trim option for a high end car. Continue to share the high end engine with the G/Q sister car.

The biggest risk is to turn out a slightly refreshed model that does nothing for sales - the 370z effect.

I'm going to go ahead and say this about the 911 argument. They have been making the 911 since the 60s. It takes time to build something where you can have that kind of lineup yet still be profitable. Really not a fair argument there. Porsche is a sports car brand that has been building sports cars for decade.

Nissan/Infiniti is, well, a grab bag where the business model isn't nearly the same as a company like Porsche. They're mass producing vehicles. Porsche isn't. The GT-R is a halo car that can get away with not necessarily making a profit. It is meant to serve as an attention-getter for the brand meant gather profit in a more indirect way. What they've done with the GT-R is nothing short of remarkable, and I guarantee you it has gotten Porsche's attention.

As far as the Z, the 370 is a victim of circumstance in the grand scheme of things in a great many ways (rough economy, competition). I really don't want to beat the dead horse here - we just need to see if Nissan is serious about their legacy vehicle. The Z is the icon for the brand, as we shall see if it gets proper love.

If they decide to do that, they might as well kill the base trim of the Z altogether and move it upmarket. Bring back the 240sx to compete with the Toyobaru. Then you hit both market segments. Build it off the same platform to save costs.

Or, keep the car pretty much the same and buy a **** ton of advertising in the car mags. That's usually enough to get it to be the winner of all the comparison tests.

Would a discussion of the possible death of the Mitsu EVO be appropriate? Sort of a mini-godzilla AWD? That could allow the Z to shift downward.

At least Nissan has all these exciting possibilities. :)

A base Z that sold in the $32-$35k range with 300hp, and an upscale Z in the $40-$45k range with 370-400hp is really the way to go.

The base would be for people who want to step up from the Toyobaru 200hp and lack of amenities. The upscale will be for people who want something different from an American V8. Anything higher than that is terrible, the new Corvette starting price is $52k.

Can Nissan meet those price points and retain quality?

The Recipe for success isn't very hard.

The car has to sell in the low 30k range fully loaded just below 40k.

It needs to be north of 400bhp and weight needs to be less then 3,000lbs.

Anything less and it will not be a front runner and share the same sales fate as the current 370z.

The current mustang GT is 420hp and 3500lbs with a retail cost of 31k invoice as low as 28k so Nissan has to beat those specs and cost or get out of the game because they are becoming increasingly irrelevant.

How did we get back to the 400hp 3000lbs argument again? Your "needs" need introduced back to reality Fishey. That won't happen for any price in the 30-40k bracket, not even the 40-50k, and I still don't see it in the 50-60k range either. Losing 200+ lbs in a car from one generation to the next, keep in mind, crash testing, additional safety features, etc, it's not very feasable. Reducing weight costs money, a lot of it. In reality I don't believe the Z will be seen as a front runner for sales and not it's main objective. It has no back seat mind you...

I believe strongly the special ingredient Nissan is adding is a more pure and organic driving experience, more purpose, and more rewarding. I do see weight reduction in the mix, but nothing drastic. I also see more power in the mix, but I have doubts it will reach 400hp unless they decide a detuned and updated VR38 based engine as the way forward. I would be interested in seeing DI and VVEL implemented, even if it takes some growing pains for the community.

Remember people, the Z is imported here, and will reflect on prices.

Every bit of this.

We can't really say "make it better in every measurable category and make it cheaper too". That's never going to happen.

I still wanna know why prices were raised. When i got into the lease it was 32k base total now it's close to 33k 34k after taxes everything non sport package is not a good deal.

Pretty sure that ugly-*** Juke was made with horrible body lines:rolleyes:

Doesn't like that bad.

U might be on to something . Not sure if anyone mentioned this but why not go back to 90-96 days . There was na and turbo versions.

250z turbo ------265hp.
370z ------350hp.
Nismo 370 -----380hp

Or
370z ----350hp
Nismo 370 Turbo----420hp

Yeah I don't know y people think in the modern car era that 3200 is heavy. If z is on same platform as q and fx it is gonna be hard to drop much more weight.

I guess part of it is the yen. The other part may or may not be they need to make up the profits for low sales?

Fixed.

I agree but the Z can stand to lose weight and try to reduce some front heaviness. :tiphat:

i'd say based on the curb weight of the new q50 as i said before we can probably expect around a 100lb. drop in weight. as some people may have noticed nissan has been pretty hellbent on dropping weight across their entire lineup with everything from the altima to the sentra seeing about a 100lb. drop in weight compared to their previous generations. At this point though it's all speculation, but im fairly optimistic that nissan can accomplish the drop in weight on the Z. As for the engine i would say around the current horsepower would still be sufficient, i mean look at porsche they didnt really add much more horsepower to their new 911/cayman, but they did drop some weight so i sortof expect nissan to follow the same line of thinking.

I expect so as well. The curb weight of the Q50 is 3574lbs. The G37 sedan is 3703, lbs. Which is roughly 129lbs. I'm hoping with the Z they can get closer to 200lbs. I think Nissan needs to let go of big nav units for the Z. I think if they go with an altima style nav system but just give it a slightly more upscale look with the surrounding materials. It would instantly save an extra 20lbs. Power seating is the most unnecessary luuxury in the Z. They can do cloth and leather, but why we need power seats? I don't get it. Plus our interiors have too many thick plastics. We can keep the materials upscale looking but design the interior to to be more minimalist in use of plastic paneling. There's plenty of things we can adjust to hit that 200lb mark.
What sucks is, the z has again gained another approx 45lbs adding oil cooler and DRL's. So i hope they find some engine weight reduction to compensate for the oil cooler next gen.

The altima sedan is 3100lbs. There's no reason the Z can't weigh the same or less. crazy huh?

Yeah but just remember they stuff a lot of beefy bits in the Z that they don't in the Altima. Drivetrain, reinforcements, etc. Adds up.

Oh i know, but the altima is a bigger vehicle as well, with backseats, more safety bits and extra doors and more glass etc. I think it's possible for the z and altima to be equal in weight.

But the Altima also has practically no drivetrain relative to the Z. That's where a lot of the weight comes in.

Anyhoo, if they can cut the weight on the Z that'd be great. And if they can't, at least move some of it back in the chassis. I wouldn't mind if they made the hood a little longer and got the engine further back behind the front axle like on the S2000.

Yeah, i was thinking that too. More lithe hood, re-extend the wheelbase to redistribute some of that weight.

See this is why im a big proponent of a smaller displacement engine. Alot of the issues is the weight of the VQ

Well at least we know 129lbs was taken off the Q.

I understand Nissan's financially not in a position to completely revamp the Z and start from scratch. Fortunately, the 370Z is a great starting point. It's lighter, faster, handles better, and has a better interior than the 350Z. If only the next Z can have at least 50 more hp, and a stiffer chassis while keeping the weight down, I'll be extremely happy. More frame reinforcements, and perhaps a retuned VK50VE from the Infiniti FX50 pushing over 400 hp with at least a 7K rpm redline comes to mind.

An FX50 is around $65K, so a similarly powered Z should be between $5K to $10K less than that. Sure, it's wishful thinking, but 500Z has a good ring to it. Oh, and no more boomerang lights please.

I'd like 2800 lbs with a stiffer chassis, a twin turbo v6 mid-mounted with 400hp/400ft-lb and has a combined EPA of 32MPG. Also, I'd like another inch of headroom and for it to be designed after the 458 Italia. Oh yeah, and it should start at $28,999 and max out at $40,000 fully loaded!!

While I'm at it, I would like the winning numbers to a record powerball/megamillions jackpot with an after taxes take-home of at least $250mil and for Kate Beckinsale to agree to be friends with benefits!

I think that's a good start.

:facepalm:

It sounds like you want a corvette to me... Just trade for the C7 if that's what you want?

A 500z idea has no concept of Nissan's history culture and philosophy when it comes to the Z. If you really think a 500Z is a good idea??? Why don't we make the 500z crosstour and sedan too?:ugh2:.

We've deviated enough from Mr. K's original philosophy. It's time to bring it back closer to it's roots.

Murano Cross Cabriolet. :yum:

Only if it's a VR38 coupled with a CVT and weighs 2800lbs with a max price of $28,999

Sounds doable.

Whenever theres a group buy in for eveything you listed let me know because ill take one of everything as well lol :bowrofl: