Trading a Z for STi bc of excessive elevation??
 

So nothing is set in stone at all, and if it happens it would be in over a year, but I want to ask this question so I can know if I should keep putting money into my Z or not. Anyways, I am looking to have my work be relocated to Colorado where the elevation is pretty damn high (a mile up) (the 911 will be staying in CA). We all know that elevation robs hp in NA engines (about 55hp for the Z for my situation with all my bolt ons and before a tune), and that turbo'd engines pretty much don't care about the elevation.

So my '11 STi was sold to my younger brother (he still has it, but will be selling it in a year as he won't need a car in NY), and there is the option that I can just sell my Z, give him the appropriate amount of money and take back the STi.

I love driving the Z far, far more than the STi on Tarmac. Not to mention the interior, build quality (feel) and so on is better in the Z. But take away 55hp, and the inability to go on deep snow (which I loved doing in the STi) and they become pretty much equal. (Also the Z has a small handful of mods whereas the STi is stock).

I really am torn on this decision. I know I'm the only one who can make this choice but what are your guys' view on this? How much will a tune for elevation compensate the hp loss? Anyone live in CO that can chime in?

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments.

I'm also wondering this. I'm sure there are a few Canadians that could chime in. Is the actual change in pressure even that much? The air will also be cooler and much dryer so that may offset things.

True I didn't think about the cold air.

FYI the GENERAL equation for finding hp loss is: (elevation in ft)*(0.03)*(hp)/1000

I would not drive the Z (or for that matter any nice car) in the winter. And not necessary because of the snow, but because of the gravel.

As far as the hp drop, it would be the same for any car, so in my mind it's a wash.

Just turbo the Z, unless you don't want to bark up that tree. Will probably get better MPG than the STI too.

Unfortunately I wouldn't turbo the Z.. Have all the respect in the world for those who have done it though!

From your equation((elevation in ft)*(0.03)*(hp)/1000), it seems the bigger hp the car has the more power it will be ripped off... So on the bright side, you might actually be able to beat a big boy V10 Viper over there.:icon17: Does that enough reason to convince you to keep the Z?:tup:

Hahaa, I guess every little point counts! Interesting to think about though, a huge engined heavy car like that can actually be beaten by a lighter, smaller and far less powered car around corners..

But seriously, I think my main concern would be driving the z in the harsh weather over there. If you just staying there for one winter or so, I'd say keep the z. Otherwise, I agree with you to trade in the Z. Sti is a fun car to drive after all. It's more suitable in your situation. Or maybe an Evo? I was thinking a Sti or Evo for my DD/Winter car too. And I am still thinking to get one in the future! Lol. But I will keep my Z as a toy/weekend car here for sure.:)

With the curves in Colorado, I can't believe power is the only thing you care about

You make valid points. I would feel a lot better thrashing an STi than a Z, and wouldn't want to be limited on where I can go. I like the STi more than the evo bc I hated my Evo X MR's dual clutch. It was unbearable. And the GSR only has 5 gears..
I just can't help but feeling I'm sitting in a small van when I'm in the STi when driving the speed limit. But I do still have my 911 sitting in CA, so I guess I shouldn't only have coupes in my garage.
Well it's a bit down the road. Guess ill hold off on any future mods for now.

Thanks for the brainstorm!

Right when I think I made up my mind, you have to come in and stir the pot! :icon17:

It will rob FI'd motors of power too...

Although you can turn up the boost, you will always be fighting against the lower atmospheric pressure.

I do not know anything about this. but would not a new tune at elevation help correct for altitude?

Yeah you have all the cars that I want to own! From Sti to 911!:tiphat: Lol... Why you don't like the Evo's dual clutch. I haven't drove one. My buddy told me there is some strange delay when shifting. But it's a very fast car.

Not only NA or boosted cars will lose power over there but also us human too...

Although you have popcorns, potato chips, chocolate bars to turn up the boost, you will always be fighting against the lower atmospheric pressure as well.:icon17:

I think a proper tune might fix some air to fuel ratio problems, it's not necessary to make up the power lose due to the less condensed oxygen at such a high elevation place.

The reason people assume FI is better is that boost targets are absolute with respect to pressure...so yes, you will still have the same 'power'.

However the power curve is going to be shifted. If the STi boost target
is say 180 KPA (about 10lbs) at sea level and it attains that at say 2500 RPM under load...in Denver you may not hit that until 3500 RPM, which to me is what Jordo was getting at here.

I would not just toss out the Z due to altitude...its still got power, its still fun to drive and don't forget CO is second only to CA in terms of cat piss content in the fuel they sell...which makes tuning to the edge a PITA and you must pull out timing add fuel and overall just hate the fuel there.

- b

Tough choice. BMW 1M used or 135i??? Dinan lsd and stage1 tune. Ur good foreeeever holmes!!

:koolaidwall:

Take you car out to Colorado for a cruise. I go there a few times a year in my z. Yes it takes a big hit on power but is still a blast to drive in the mountains there. I would lean towards the STi just because of the AWD. While I lived in Broomfield I parked my Jag during the winter and drove one of my Jeeps. That magchloride they put on the roads there kills cars. Yes even if you wash them right away. It seems like you consider the STi a bit of a beater so it should work out as an all year round vehicle.

I live in colorado.

Driving your Z in the snow is not for the faint of heart. I've dropped a healthy chunk of money into a winter tire package and it's still not exactly practical. i've never driven my car at sea level so i can't speak to the HP loss.

i haven't modified the stance at all and i still end up scraping as a lot of the roads around here are really poorly joined together with all the hills. i live in colorado springs and commute 40 minutes to castle rock everyday and i still have tons of power on the interstate.

i love my z though. would not mind something AWD for the winter though.

The power loss experienced in Denver is irrelevant compared to the practicality of an AWD car for winter. I would not be a fan of having to drive my z year round. I am lucky enough to have a WRX and a Z but if I could only choose one it would be the WRX because of the amount of snow travel I do. If you have an alternate transport for snowy days be it the train, a bus, skis or telecommuting then the Z would be fine but if you like traveling in winter then you need a better snow car than the z. Even a cheap Fwd with excellent snow tires would work.

STI still won't fix the fact that you'll lose your front bumper to the melt-off dip in every driveway here.

The power loss is noticeable, but not the end of the world. The AWD in the Subaru is nice, but the challenge in Denver is generally ground clearance. Main roads get cleared pretty quickly, and everything sublimates so you don't get as much ice. The times where the roads aren't clear, the STI won't get you much farther than the Z.

The Subaru also has terrible paint, which caused me to fear driving it in the winter. The fact that they don't salt the roads in Denver is helpful for wear, but I'd still recommend a beater.


On the whole, the wrx/sti is a great car, but I'd not recommend it unless it is a car you want due to its standalone virtues.

I have Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5's studded on the rear and blizzak lm25's on the front. I can get through most snow storms, I haven't been stuck yet. clearance is the biggest concern. even coming out of gas stations you'll scrape, or turning onto certain roads.

Haha thanks man! The DCT on the Evo would slip (I think that was the problem) very often in first/second gear and it felt like you seriously hit a tree or something. Very, very violent and abrupt. 2nd to 1st gear shifts were also terrible. The mechanical stress and tolerances that DCT can handle is SO low, it can't even handle its stock power let alone modding it at all. Mitsubishi wasn't doing anything about it so I wanted it gone before anything serious came up.

I do need to go for a drive, that's for sure. Damn I hate chemicals on the roads. I did put a skid plate on the STi awhile back, and can always spray protective stuff over the suspension.

Damn I did not know about all the crappy roads..

I do enjoy snowboarding a lot, but I agree I should be more worried about AWD vs RWD with the snow, although I would not mind a dedicated snow tire setup on the Z.

Holy damn I'm imagining these roads to be the equivalent of off roading!
The STi does have better clearance than the Z, plus my Z has the Stillen splitter which I would hate to take off, looks naked without it.

You guys brought up many good points.

I really should care more about the AWD vs RWD with the winters than the power loss. Not to mention ground clearance, which is apparently a huge deal in CO.

I'm starting to think I will end up having to switch to the STi, which I'm not that happy about. I don't want a second beater car, I would rather drive a performance car that can handle being beat up like the STi. But I do still have the 911 which is at sea level and no snow, so I can get my fix still.

One more thing that I'm dreading on is the mods on the car as well as the mods I have yet to put on sitting in my garage! I guess I'll put some stuff on the marketplace when I've made up my mind for sure.

Thanks again for all the brainstorming guys. Now back to work!