'13 Z or '09-'10 Cayman (S)
 

So I recently had a 2013 370Z ordered with touring and sport package that should be delivered mid-February. Waiting around idly for it to arrive has caught my mind wandering. Recently I realized I can get an 09-10 Porsche Cayman, or 08 Cayman S with between 15-35K miles for the same price range. I've searched and seen that this topic has been debated in length, but all of those posts were from 2-3 years ago, so I assume much about the cars (Cayman specifically with it's 2nd generation debuting in 09) has changed.

What are you guys' thoughts on the matter? I never plan to visit a track, but do appreciate extra horsepower. Also, please don't recommend other vehicles :rolleyes:

My main concerns:

Porsche maintenance/upkeep
Effectiveness of remaining warranties
uncertainties that come with buying a used car
Is it that much better of a car? (not speaking numbers specifically, but the finish/finesse of it all)

Thanks for any insight!

I would rather get an m3, boss 302,cayman s,zo6 any day

The Nismo is overpriced plain and simple.

If you don't feel comfortable with the Porsche's cost of ownership, stick to the Z.

junglez -He never mentioned anything about a Nismo. And if you'd read he asked not to recommend other cars.

OP, I too was in your shoes not too long ago. I previously drove a Acura TSX as a daily and have an S2000 as an extra car. When I was looking I narrowed it down to a Z, because I always wanted one and a used Porsche Cayman as well. My third choice being a Subaru WRX STI. In the end, the Z gave me everything I wanted. Make you a "Pro & Con" list then drive each and see what you think. Only you will know exactly what you want.

The Porsche maintenance cost is what drove me away, plus I was always partial to Japanese vehicles.:tup:

Do you mind elaborating? I definitely would rather NOT pay a premium for continued ownership, but am still a little unclear on what exactly that extra cost of ownership is. Are we talking $2-3k a year for DDing or like $200 oil changes rather than $50..

Thanks for your help!

Do you recall what your Pro/Con list for the Z vs a Cayman looked like? It'd help with my laziness :tup: (I do understand parts of the list come down to subjectivity and personal pref, but I am sure any views you considered would be a great help)

It really did come down to cost of ownership, and personal preference. I come from a Japanese car background, Hondas mainly and didn't really know much about Porsche. Me being the type to do all my own maintenance, repairs and modifications I felt more comfortable with the Nissan. Another deciding factor was getting brand new car vs. a used one. I bought my S2000 used and hadn't had something new in quite a while.

Maybe you should be asking this question on a Porsche site?

When something on a Porsche goes wrong and is out of warrenty, it will cost a lot. However things hardly go wrong on Porsches. Both my parents owned Porsches and put over 150,000 miles on them without a single problem. It is general consensus that Porsches are made to last, where only consistent problem is oil consumption.
I would stay away from a first year run on any car though, and get an extended warrenty. Caymans are great cars IMO

But then again I'm a fan of buying cars new, trade in value on a 13' Z would be better than an 09 cayman, and you know the true history of your car.

Depends on what u want it for. Buuuutttt with that being said (puts on flame suit), i settled for the 370 after i couldn't find a cayman s i liked. I have driven both very aggressively and can say the cayman is soooo much better in the curves. Better than a 911 even. But the z will beat it in a straight line... I do love my z, but sometimes kick myself for not getting a cayman

Well, cost of ownership really depends largely on whether or not you are going to be doing work yourself or not.

Oil changes could cost you $200 or more at a dealership, but then again the oil change intervals on the Cayman are quite long.

Brakes... expensive at a dealership. Not that complicated if you do it yourself.

The real issue is going to be if you have something fail on you outside of warranty. Are you willing/able to foot the repair bill? Repair work on the Porsche will likely cost a good bit more than the Nissan.

Back in 2009 I ended up choosing the Z over the Cayman because I wasn't comfortable with paying a huge premium over the Z (for a new one) or spending the same on a used Cayman with no or little warranty remaining as I would on a used Z. Don't get me wrong, I felt like the Cayman was the better car in all aspects, but at the time it just wasn't worth it when I could get a similar experience for a lot less.

Not a good idea. :bowrofl:

Good place to research cost of ownership, though.

Thanks everyone, you all make very good points!

I did 2 solid months of research on the Z and was 98.5% positive a new one was the car for me (LED fanboi lol) and just recently started entertaining the possibility of a Porsche. Maybe it's bc all three cars I've bought were new, but I definitely put weight on knowing every mile that is put on a car.

I was looking into a 6mo old Audi before I bought my Golf R, but couldn't come to terms with paying $40k for a car with a one inch scuff down the center console, just didn't feel right to me.

While I'm sure the Porsche would offer much better quality and equal if not slightly better performance (If I went with an S), I think my perfectionist side wouldn't let me look past the usual bumps and bruises that come with buying a car someone else has gotten in and out of a thousand times.

I keep trying to second guess the Z, but no matter what I explore I just realize I'm even more impatient for her to arrive! :rolleyes:

Are you selling the Golf R? I hope you're not because I really like that car! I know what you mean about being fixated on the 'new or used' aspect of it.
My first car was a VERY used Mercedes S500 that my dad bought from a police auction at too good of a price. It was dropped and had 21" chrome wheels on it, and the tacky light colored wood trim on the inside (keep in mind I have always been a nerdy guy ever since high school, so this type of drug dealers car was very odd for me to say the least! Not saying that 21" chrome rims are for drug dealers, but trust me if you saw this car in its entirety). It was the only automatic car I've driven that actually stalled (on a regular basis).. Ever since then and after all those bad experiences with maintenance on the car, I have been buying nothing but new cars, and the peace of mind that you're talking about is very important.
So go with the Z!

He said he was getting a 13 sport/touring not a Nismo.:icon14:

I know i misread.. but still they increased the price for the 2013 models and i just don't think its worth it anymore.

I own a 13 Nismo and if you know how to negotiate you will end up with a really nice car.
I had a 2010 sport/touring and now have the Nismo,the Nismo is allot better.

If you want to know about a Porsche, surf this board - http://rennlist.org/

Buy the Cayman S. You can always sell it if you do not like it. A used Cayman is easier to unload than a used '13 Z.

Believe it or not there are a few decent ones. Like any make, there will be arrogant, uninformed pricks on all sites. Unfortunately this place has a high S/N from my experience the past 18 months as well.

OP: they are very different cars. I happen to be fortunate to own both. I won't give you the long story but I have posted a few times on it here. Currently the Cayman is the wifes daily during the nice weather, and mine during the old (Cayman + snow tires = Fun).

If you value feel, fun factor, and precision the Cayman is the better vehicle for that purpose. Its not night and day better, but it is, IMHO better. Weight, dynamics, low polar moment all combine into an amazing package. I won't discuss brand snobbery: if that is your thing its there. Its not my thing at all. I wish they were debadged: the beauty of the shape speaks for itself.

I happen to have a base engine Cayman. The S while nice isn't necessary to me. I like winding that flat 6 out to hear the mechanical symphony as much as I can, so a bit slower just extends this sensation.

The Z has its purpose as well though I happen to have the porkiest Z you can own (loaded ZR) and the weight difference is obviously there. The Z is no
slouch, and its package for me is that of upscale technology, torque torque torque, and a GT car feel.

Our cayman is stripped down a bit with only a few options. The 987.2 (09+) are lower in numbers but practically identical to the 987.1 in most parts. The major changes are the stereo is updated (PCM 3.0 vs 2.1) and the 09+ has a 2.9 non-DI engine as base with the first DI 3.4 with the S. Those are the biggest deltas.

If you can afford the 09+ I would go for it. There is no IMS bearing in that car though the updated design makes it so that the 987.1 rarely fails compared to 986 cars.

Maintenance is not bad actually. I spend 120-140 for 2x synthetic changes a year on the Z (I could spend over 200 on 4...if I was to use ester oil every 3K as S1 states, it would be 250/yr). The cayman gets 1 $200 OCI per year.

Other things are in 2/4/6y intervals unless you hit mileage first which is not typical with P cars. Buying CPO means that all maintenance must be *up to date* at the time of purchase, so be sure the dealer does the items per TIME. The sales dorks forget that sometimes.

I feel blessed at the opportunity to drive both cars. There are things I wish I could change about both of them: always will be. Seeking perfection is a fools quest. I just drive the machines and grin. :driving:

- b

I also looked at a boxter/cayman. What sold me on the Z was the propensity for boxster engines to blowup at 60k miles.

I spent a good amount of time looking for my first true sports car. Dropping the import coupe and moving away from muscle, I was down to a Z4, Boxster or Cayman, or a Z34. We have 4 Porsche drivers here where I work. 3 Boxsters and 1 Cayman. All models from '07-'11. I constantly hear about MAF sensor problems, intermediate shaft issues, seal leakage, etc. Many of them use them as daily drivers and at least once every 2 months are driving a courtesy vehicle from the local Porsche dealership. Their stories are the reason I chose a base Z with sports pkg (paperwork still pending-buying; from a forum member).

/funny note: all 4 Porsches park next to each other; we call that the 'mid-life parking area'.

I know we are all beating a dead horse here; but you do realize the cost of cars go up every model year right!?

This is why I got the Z, I had, like many others the same question. My brother's experiences with his Audi S4 sealed the deal, long and financially painful to repair.

So I got my overpriced NISMO :p

Stories being the key word. I almost spit my java when I read the previous comment about engines blowing up at 60K. Sheesh.

Lets do a search over here...CSC, Engine oil consumption, Nissan service horrible...list goes on. Spend a day here and why would anyone buy a used Z? That is how it could have been in 2011 when we were looking.

I'm a bit smarter then that, have been on the Net since its inception and understand how things work.

For those who actually care, there is a big difference between 986 cars and 987 (which the OP was discussing). Huge. So if you ever want to learn about it, remember to differentiate. That is where you will understand what cars do have real seal issues (on average more then usual) vs. those that are fine. Which engines are more at risk for IS bearing failure and which wants are not at risk. Yes, sub 20K boxsters are 986 cars and probably not looking at. Caymans are all 987 based.

I'm not pimping one car over another. As my first reply suggests I have love for both cars. I do really hate it when people don't have an ounce of clue about what they are saying.

- b

Sure, if you look at a list on a forum of people who have issues, all cars would fit the category of 'being unreleiable'. Maybe 5% of Nissan owners have issues, maybe a little more. I'm talking about a 4 owners that I work with constantly having to take theirs back in for out of the norm services to a point the dealership gives them a courtesy car every few months that they drive for a few days. I haven't researched into the cars much because of the everyday discussions about their woes, and went into researching the Z. You seem a lot more knowledgeable about the Porsches than I and I trust your word, but their stories made the decision easy for me added into the varying years of cars and still having issues across the board. The choice from then came down to the Nissan or the BMW for me and the Z won based on personal taste.

I don't own a Z (yet), and have never owned a Porsche or a BMW. I do own a C300 Sport and a Civic but those are different creatures. My opinion is only conjecture based on anecdotes.

:hello:

Other than ims bearings (for which their are factory wear sensor and magnetic drain plus to earn u of impending failure) those Porsche motors are fantastic. Will run forever if properly maintained. I had an 87 944S stock motor run for close to 200k. I would say reliability is ever bit as good a z car. Btw, the sound when u go wot on a cayman is soooo intoxicating. We aren't talking random exhaust racket, but tuned intake noises 2' from your ear

I would take the Z, my main reason would be that there are many 911's out there and the Cayman S will always be the low man on the ladder, that's what Porsche designed it to be. Putting that aside, if the car will be your daily driver get the Z, I would have a lot easier time sleeping putting a new Z through the daily driving rigors than a used Porsche. It wouldn't bother me as much to see a Z get the eventual wear and tear that a daily gets but it would bug the hell out of me on a Porsche.

The Porsche is the better quality car and the engine is in the middle making it the better handling car by far. Driving mid-engined, you realize quickly is the right move. The Z may have a bit more on the power side and the aftermarket is not as costly but if your decision is based purely on driving feel, Cayman S all day.

I also recognize I am just another chuckle head on the net :tiphat:

If you look at my posting history I try to avoid sweeping generalizations with absolutely nothing to back it up. I am an engineer by trade: I deal with facts and data.

I believe you when you say you have folks that have issues a lot. It doesn't surprise me that much. People that buy porsches as garage queens tend to have more problems per capita. Maybe its a german thing...the engineers get upset when people don't use their machines.

The best preventative maintenance for IMS issues is to drive the cars. A lot. Imagine that :)

- b